Is it time to go electric?

[AlS3BE]

Just gauging some thoughts from you guys/gals out there.
a couple of things going through my head at the moment.
Costs.
With current petrol and diesel prices going £2+ per litre by the summer is it time for a switch?
It’s costing around 30p a mile , roughly 30mpg, in petrol and around £100 to fill my s3. Looking at the Tesla mode 3/y and it roughly cost 7-9p in electricity to drive that same mile so less than a 3rd. If you can get free charging at Tesco and other free charge points around the country then fuel is literally free.
then you got the servicing on top as well at £200-400 every year whereas there’s really no servicing costs with an electric car. Also less in theory to break.
Another thing around cost is these low emission zones now in every major city or coming soon electric seems appealing. I know at the moment they are going after diesel vehicles but won’t be long before they go after petrol and hybrids.
performance.
The model 3/y is also faster to 60/100mph and quarter mile but tops out less than the s3 not that there’s any opportunity to go 100+ On UK roads anyway so day to day driving it’s quicker and this is based on the standard dual motor long range and not the performance models.
even some of the Kia’s/Hyundai ev are relatively quick with 500bhp+ models coming later this year.
Am I driving a dinosaur and should look at moving on especially used car prices like my s3 is pretty high at the moment.
I am a big petrol head, the noise the smells all associated with it and even the maintenance, to a point, I enjoy.
Would be interesting to hear everyone thoughts especially those who have made the switch.

 

[Terminator x]

Isn't electric more expensive to buy vs iCE? Say £5k more, that is a lot of fuel and servicing to "claw back" . Plus I say EV isn't for "drivers" , A to B car perhaps.

TX.

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[AlS3BE]

Isn't electric more expensive to buy vs iCE? Say £5k more, that is a lot of fuel and servicing to "claw back" . Plus I say EV isn't for "drivers" , A to B car perhaps.

TX.

Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk

Couldn’t agree more about ice being more a drivers focused car etc and Evs are more simple point and squirt type cars.
think for most part as my car is a daily, it’s more an a-b car, school runs and shopping with the odd opportunity to rag it down some B roads. From my research, happy to be corrected, on a 12k pa you are saving £200+ in fuel a month possibly more if you live in an area with free charging then maintenance as well so £5k extra expense at the start can be saved back in a couple of years possibly less.
Just seeing are we all delaying the inevitable and what am I going to miss going electric.

 

[Terminator x]

Each to their own of course, no problem with that. Me though, not a fan of EV and can't see it ever changing. I buy a new car every 2 years or so and I will just stop that when ICE can't be bought any more.

TX.

 

[AlS3BE]

Each to their own of course, no problem with that. Me though, not a fan of EV and can't see it ever changing. I buy a new car every 2 years or so and I will just stop that when ICE can't be bought any more.

TX.

I’m the same not an ev fan.
there will be a point that Ice cars will be taxed so much that it won’t be viable keeping one. Just gauging when that will be. Petrol at £3,4,5 per litre? Or congestion charging in every town and city?
Do I sell when the going is good or do I hold on and see my s3 becoming a classic/dinosaur and worth a fortune

 

[Terminator x]

Imho EV seems cheap at the moment as Govt is trying to encourage people to swap over. Once it tips to more EV than ICE you will see cost of ownership for EV rise as they need to recover the lost revenue of course.

Tough call on when to switch as at some point the ICE may be worthless although my view is that nice versions of a nice car will hold their money; bog standard cars may bomb whilst "collectors" cars may be ok.

TX.

 

[Raiden]

NEVER!!!!!!

FU Thunberg


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[jdp1962]

Not for me at the moment. Maybe in another five years.

 

[Charlie Farley]

EV will become more costly very soon.

 

[Charlie Farley]

It will slowly replace most ICE and when it does it will no longer be a low cost or green option.

everyone overlooks the environmental damage created of the back of electric power and battery production.

when I have to give up the ICE it will be due to inability to drive or death .

 

[quattrogone]

Fully Synthetic fuel is the way to go, no need to waste all those ICE cars when there's nothing wrong with them
I'd only have EV as a novelty and I'd have had to come into enough money to waste some..

 

[AlS3BE]

EV will become more costly very soon.

It’s not exactly cheap at the moment.
£40k+ for something with reasonable range.
your Kia and Hyundai seems best bang for buck. Just can’t seem to bring myself in buying a £40k Kia
at the moment it’s only viable to take as company car/salary sacrifice as you get the tax breaks. a model 3/y performance isn’t that much more than what I was paying on the s3 on pcp.

 

[Terminator x]

Cheap to run (today) but £10k more expensive to buy. Maths a problem for some it seems.

TX.

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[gimk]

Everyone is taking about the environment now but no-one is saying anything about how to dispose off the batteries in years to come, just like the old wind turbine graveyards all over the place that cannot be recycled

 

[Zoomer]

The government have just scrapped the electric car grant , that’s an extra £1500 to pay on smaller EVs

 

[AlS3BE]

The government have just scrapped the electric car grant , that’s an extra £1500 to pay on smaller EVs

Also lost grants for fitting ev chargers at home

 

[Frizzley]

Spoke to guy I used to work with last night who recently got himself a tron. Loves the car but a few downsides he mentioned were:

- fully charging at home using the Audi charger takes over 10 hours
- however at the moment that’s broken and he is waiting for Audi to fix it.
- Lidl / Aldi cheapest places to charge the car however big issue in general was the number of public charging points that dont work / are broken.
- great for running about / shorter trips but longer trips need much more planning compared to just jumping in an ice car and going - he had recently been to north wales and really struggled to find a place to charge the car.
- ambient temp makes a noticeable difference to the range of the car - in addition to the heating / cooling systems that keep the batteries at their optimum operating temp turning stuff like the air con really reduced the range

overall he loved the car, it was much cheaper to run than his previous petrol car but definitely there were some hidden non financial costs especially where longer trips where involved

 

[AlS3BE]

Spoke to guy I used to work with last night who recently got himself a tron. Loves the car but a few downsides he mentioned were:

- fully charging at home using the Audi charger takes over 10 hours
- however at the moment that’s broken and he is waiting for Audi to fix it.
- Lidl / Aldi cheapest places to charge the car however big issue in general was the number of public charging points that dont work / are broken.
- great for running about / shorter trips but longer trips need much more planning compared to just jumping in an ice car and going - he had recently been to north wales and really struggled to find a place to charge the car.
- ambient temp makes a noticeable difference to the range of the car - in addition to the heating / cooling systems that keep the batteries at their optimum operating temp turning stuff like the air con really reduced the range

overall he loved the car, it was much cheaper to run than his previous petrol car but definitely there were some hidden non financial costs especially where longer trips where involved

Range anxiety!!
That’s my biggest problem.
at the moment I could go for a 500 mile road trip and know there’s a petrol station round the corner to fill up even then when I’m in the highlands the petrol stations could be sparse and super unleaded is almost non existent. With ev I will need more planning.
the sat nav units in Evs are good for that but if there’s no chargers available it doesn’t matter how good the satnav is.

 

[voorhees]

A work colleague purchased a hybrid BMW and it has an electric range of 30 miles.....he lives 30 miles away so has to charge it every goddamn day...

 

[AlS3BE]

A work colleague purchased a hybrid BMW and it has an electric range of 30 miles.....he lives 30 miles away so has to charge it every goddamn day...

that will be the hybrids so there’s at least an ice motor as backup

 

[quattrogone]

I wonder how much the batteries cost to replace once they're sqwonked, bad enough when the one in a lap top is kaput.
I did see a video on youtube where a guy blew up his Tesla as the batteries went down and Tesla wanted something in the region of 22k dollars to replace them

 

[AlS3BE]

I wonder how much the batteries cost to replace once they're sqwonked, bad enough when the one in a lap top is kaput.
I did see a video on youtube where a guy blew up his Tesla as the batteries went down and Tesla wanted something in the region of 22k dollars to replace them

I think I saw that one.
problem with batteries, not just Tesla, is normally it’s a few cells that goes and it struggles to hold charge so replacing those faulty cells should fix it. Problem is like all car related parts is dealers replace the whole thing rather than try and repair the individual components. That’s why they are so expensive. They also design it in a way that’s not easy to replace the individual parts.
it’s not hugely different to normal ice cars. If your dsg box goes faulty more than likely the dealer will want to fit a new gearbox for £12k+ Whereas a specialist gearbox company will rebuild it for like £1k.
we just need these specialist to catch up and learn to diagnose and repair these Evs.

 

[NevMan]

Also lost grants for fitting ev chargers at home

Yep, the under £30k ones. And as others have said government will tax us to death once more have EV

 

[NevMan]

that will be the hybrids so there’s at least an ice motor as backup

For me would likely be a hybrid, as shorter trips (work only 5 miles away) would be on electric and then longer use fuel. BUT no time soon for me

 

[Jassyo06]

Furthest I'd go would be a hybrid petrol ....electric cars soulless and become very dull to five after the torque honeymoon is over and apart from the very expensive Taycan "I have driven " most are ugly/ungainly

 

[AlS3BE]

Furthest I'd go would be a hybrid petrol ....electric cars soulless and become very dull to five after the torque honeymoon is over and apart from the very expensive Taycan "I have driven " most are ugly/ungainly

Porsche is the better looking ev out there but also out of most folks price range. The mustang Mach e is about the only other that looks acceptable again can’t bring myself paying £40k+ for a Ford.
Will see what the torque honeymoon is like when the mrs get hers. I’ve driven a few Evs now and instant torque is impressive. Even in something like a Nissan Leaf but some of the Teslas are scarily quick.

 

[Jassyo06]

Porsche is the better looking ev out there but also out of most folks price range. The mustang Mach e is about the only other that looks acceptable again can’t bring myself paying £40k+ for a Ford.
Will see what the torque honeymoon is like when the mrs get hers. I’ve driven a few Evs now and instant torque is impressive. Even in something like a Nissan Leaf but some of the Teslas are scarily quick.

When l had my TTS and use to love draining Tesla's batteries when they wanted to have ago...l actually dispise Tesla cars with a passion

 

[Charlie Farley]

A few reasons not to go EV.
Cars are just too costly new and used are not much better, that alone will deter a very large group of buyers.
Repair costs over time are likely to be higher than ICE on a like-for-like basis as EV's use very specific components etc in many areas which will become very much a dealer-only fix.
Lack of charging infrastructure across the country which will takes years to become anywhere upto spec for most users.
lack of real pricing incentive for non-business users, tax breaks etc.
Current annual running costs will rise significantly as more EVs hit the roads and the government then start whacking up the costs of running one.
Most EVs look horrid, just because they are electric doesn't mean styling has to go into George jetson styling mode.

That's probably enough reasons for now, well enough for me.

As much as everyone says EV is the future, the harsh reality is that ICE is here to stay for quite some time whether it's liked or not.

 

[Charlie Farley]

I do some work for a family that has a tesla X series.
It's been problematic from the word go and still is.
There is always something on the blink, last week it was the charging, then the doors wouldn't lock , before that it was squeaking suspension, allways something needing fixing or adjusting.
So given all the hype tesla blurt out, why pay Upward of £70k for this, sorry doesn't work for me at all.

 

[AlS3BE]

I do some work for a family that has a tesla X series.
It's been problematic from the word go and still is.
There is always something on the blink, last week it was the charging, then the doors wouldn't lock , before that it was squeaking suspension, allways something needing fixing or adjusting.
So given all the hype tesla blurt out, why pay Upward of £70k for this, sorry doesn't work for me at all.

Try close to £100k or more new. A friend bought a model x and thought he was mental spending that much on a Tesla. For 6 figures I want a prancing horse on the bonnet.
lucky for him it’s works fine for over a year now.

 

[quattrogone]

I do some work for a family that has a tesla X series.
It's been problematic from the word go and still is.
There is always something on the blink, last week it was the charging, then the doors wouldn't lock , before that it was squeaking suspension, allways something needing fixing or adjusting.
So given all the hype tesla blurt out, why pay Upward of £70k for this, sorry doesn't work for me at all.

I was talking to a customer that had several Tesla'son their fleet, they have had constant issue's with the screens going bang as they obviously can't cope with the Devon/Cornwall roads! For some reason they are around 3 or 4k each time iirc but the insurance company has turned around and said no more payouts so they're obviously a bit concerned now. Can't beat American build quality lol....

 

[toooldforboyracing]

It’s still priced too high for the average person, and supply chain problems will keep the secondary market priced out of the average person’s budget.

Personally I think it’s either synthetic fuel or conversion of existing cars is the better way forward. Both require an advance in battery density or energy density in synthetic fuel is required, but with the supply issues and prices being propped up as a result, the extra time people stay out of the market will hopefully bring about some advances

Now we may even see more people taking care of their cars and driving them economically to get them to last longer.

Soon as the govt starts taxing the Dino juice to get us out of ICE, that will be the death knell of all but the hardcore

 

[AlS3BE]

I was talking to a customer that had several Tesla'son their fleet, they have had constant issue's with the screens going bang as they obviously can't cope with the Devon/Cornwall roads! For some reason they are around 3 or 4k each time iirc but the insurance company has turned around and said no more payouts so they're obviously a bit concerned now. Can't beat American build quality lol....

Think that’s problem with Tesla not just the American build quality issues as now they are built in Germany and China.
they have designed cars from ground up for today world of tech and the Facebook/instagram generation whereas all other car manufacturers have had 100 years of perfecting a formula that’s works well and years of experience to know that screens will crack if you hit bad potholes, BMWs formula are making good drivers cars, Audi with Quattro and mercs with great comfort and quality. These old school car companies know how to build cars with good panel gaps using good materials that lasts and feels great to touch(some of Audis new cars are questionable on this front) so when you sit in you feel it’s special and nice. my mates model x is nice but it doesn’t feel like you are getting into a £100k+ car, to me feels more mid range like a Kia/Ford. You get into a similar priced Range Rover and you feel the quality is night and day. Soft touch plastics to best leathers in the business, ergonomics etc and not having to go into a touch screen to find a button to open glove box. Even the likes of Kia’s have made massive improvement over the years and their new cars fit and finish are catching up if not on par already with the big German brands.
think next 10 years will be interesting, maybe more electric cars or hydrogen fuel. Will be the biggest shake up in 100years.

 

[toooldforboyracing]

I know I keep banging on about it (so apologies) but it boggles the mind why you can’t mainstream conversions or at least get them ready to roll once the energy source equation fits the space available inside the car for the batteries (synth fuel assumes minor injector / maps changes if at all). Even if the range is sub 200 miles, the technology will eventually move on and increase the range. The car is already safety checked for collision / passenger harm etc.

Case in point, even if you take, say, a pre opf S3 and it costs £20k/£15k to convert in 5 years, that’s still better value than getting a newer one that meets the emissions standards, assuming you’ve kept it in good enough nick.

Being an MQB platform, means the economies of scale play through the other brands and a small tweak of software / hardware allows all those older cars to get a 2nd wind.

Just my 2p, rant over

 

[AlS3BE]

I know I keep banging on about it (so apologies) but it boggles the mind why you can’t mainstream conversions or at least get them ready to roll once the energy source equation fits the space available inside the car for the batteries (synth fuel assumes minor injector / maps changes if at all). Even if the range is sub 200 miles, the technology will eventually move on and increase the range. The car is already safety checked for collision / passenger harm etc.

Case in point, even if you take, say, a pre opf S3 and it costs £20k/£15k to convert in 5 years, that’s still better value than getting a newer one that meets the emissions standards, assuming you’ve kept it in good enough nick.

Being an MQB platform, means the economies of scale play through the other brands and a small tweak of software / hardware allows all those older cars to get a 2nd wind.

Just my 2p, rant over

there’s no incentive, ie money, for manufacturers to spend time and money on r&d for old cars. They will make more money making new cars and selling them than a conversion kit.
like recently the switch to e10 petrol affected mainly classic cars and similarly the switch from leaded to unleaded fuels.
Likes of mg/rover don’t really exists anymore and other car companies don’t want to waste time as the money is in new cars not sorting old ones. What if there’s another change a few years later then it’s back to the drawing board.
much easier designing new cars with new tech and sell them at high margins.
lpg was a prime example of these conversions, lots of people did it as there was tax breaks and cheap fuel. Now there’s very few lpg stations, fuel not so cheap and conversion kits are expensive so payback will take years and thousands of miles. You will also have range anxiety as well as not many lpg stations around.

 

[toooldforboyracing]

Shame really, going that way takes a big step towards the circular economy. If synthetic fuel achieves a breakthrough then that’s the last chance saloon for ICE, otherwise it’s 1:1 scale RC cars without the RC

 

[Charlie Farley]

Something to ponder on for those that believe EVs are the planet's saviour.

Lithium-ion batteries are not an environmental or ethical free lunch, either in the electricity that recharges them, the elements that go into their make-up (which are often sourced from some of the most exploitative and dangerous places in the world) or the rare-earth elements that go into the motors they power.

Lithium is dangerous, reactive in air and hard to recycle, so lots of batteries end up in landfill simply as a safety measure.

Battery-electric cars are going to have to be a lot more desirable as a used buy if this technology is going to get fully off the ground and that depends on us understanding how to look after them, car makers being able to service them and having a long-term plan to look after them - not just when new, but also on the day after the warranty runs out.

 

[quattrogone]

Something to ponder on for those that believe EVs are the planet's saviour.

Lithium-ion batteries are not an environmental or ethical free lunch, either in the electricity that recharges them, the elements that go into their make-up (which are often sourced from some of the most exploitative and dangerous places in the world) or the rare-earth elements that go into the motors they power.

Lithium is dangerous, reactive in air and hard to recycle, so lots of batteries end up in landfill simply as a safety measure.

Battery-electric cars are going to have to be a lot more desirable as a used buy if this technology is going to get fully off the ground and that depends on us understanding how to look after them, car makers being able to service them and having a long-term plan to look after them - not just when new, but also on the day after the warranty runs out.

Too true, and just like all the farmers around here (well their offspring actually) will get stung for the safe disposal of the fields full of solar panels in 25 years from now, the owners of older out of warranty EV's will find they have to foot some massive "safe" disposal of their car batteries when they're spent.

 

[gimk]

Something to ponder on for those that believe EVs are the planet's saviour.

Lithium-ion batteries are not an environmental or ethical free lunch, either in the electricity that recharges them, the elements that go into their make-up (which are often sourced from some of the most exploitative and dangerous places in the world) or the rare-earth elements that go into the motors they power.

Lithium is dangerous, reactive in air and hard to recycle, so lots of batteries end up in landfill simply as a safety measure.

Battery-electric cars are going to have to be a lot more desirable as a used buy if this technology is going to get fully off the ground and that depends on us understanding how to look after them, car makers being able to service them and having a long-term plan to look after them - not just when new, but also on the day after the warranty runs out.

Remember the days when diesel was going to save the planet. Whereby "Gordon Brown " era scrap your car get £2k to buy a brand new diesel car. Today those same cars bought at the time can't drive in London and soon some town centres. These EVs is another time bomb down the line

 

[boffin486]

Hi guys thought I'd put my bit in - It covers a lot of the points already raised but here goes.
Reasons FOR Electric Cars
Operation of an EV causes virtually no environmental pollution (so its said).

Reasons against (stay with me……)
An electric vehicle can NEVER be a viable option because there are insurmountable reasons why they are an impossible long term proposition.
They are Extremely environmentally unfriendly to produce – the batteries required for them use a VAST range of nasty chemicals & other resources to produce and when they require to be scrapped (which is only about 3 to 4 years after manufacture) will cause MAJOR issues over the disposal of same. You can’t just throw them in a hole in the ground……… This also ignores the fact that all the motorists with fuel driven vehicles will be expected to just scrap them (as they will be worthless) & then come up with £30,000 (or considerably more) to buy an EV. A financial impossibility for the average normal person.
That is only the beginning.
In the UK, the constant, unrelenting, governmental pressure to ‘go electric’ is masterminded & produced by people who have ABSOLUTELY no concept of the realities that they are pushing for. The fundamental requirements are being blatantly ignored. If the goal is for ALL motorists to have electric cars, how will the electrical power requirements needed for this EVER be possible?
For it to work, EVERY single parking space across the ENTIRE UK will require to have a charging point installed (including all private households).
This will, and can NEVER, actually be possible to achieve. The national grid (as it exists) can NEVER, EVER, support this. My own estimation is that at least another 3 or 4 Nuclear power stations will be required for the expected electrical load required when everyone goes home at 5 o’clock and plugs their car in. This is a fundamental requirement that will be impossible to achieve with the existing infrastructure – the actual electrical wiring throughout the country can NEVER support it. The entire electrical grid will require replacement & upgrading at a cost of untold magnitude (Many, Many, Many, Billions of pounds) Not to mention the impossibility of physically achieving this – just imagine what digging up every single road across the entire UK would involve (when it seems a complete impossibility to even just deal with the ‘pothole’ situation).

And (again my opinion), what will this actually achieve on a global scale?
Absolutely nothing – the UK is a mere speck on the globe & even if it was truly a ‘no emission green zone’ will not make the slightest difference to the world when countries like China/Russia & the US will continue as normal.

I haven’t even started in on the actual range an EV can achieve – it’s great to be told it’ll go 400miles – but the fact it needs to be plugged in for up to 8 or more hours before you can go home again is conveniently skipped over……
And speaking of charging –there should be legislation put in place to FORCE all the EV manufacturers to adopt a SINGLE, universal type of a connector for plugging into ALL vehicles.

Diatribe over – I could continue to rant on & on & on but will quit while I’m ahead…..
Phew......