2.0 TDI oil pump / balance shaft failure?

mine was done this morning at MB services, dropped the car in @8am driving home by 12.30pm.
83k on the clock and there was some wear on the hex key when he showed me,so hopefully i can forget all about this thread now.:laughing:
 
Lol nice one hopefully on the mend now then :p how much were you for the job and what route did you go down?
 
balance shaft and longer hex key replaced along with oil and filter change £560
 
Had a conversation with
KMB Parts Direct 07526 251 559.

He claims the original balancer shaft does have a hexagonal bore which contradicts an Audi Driver magazine feature on the 2.0 tdi twin balancer shaft oil pump saying it's 6 tiny machined grooves so just the shoulders of the hex key are driven .

Wear occurs with vibration etc coming off the throttle , it's a poor fit because wether it's a 100 mm or 77 mm key they both go into the balancer shaft end 40 mm , but because the first 25 mm part of it is a 9mm bore the hex key is 6mm it means just 15 mm of the key is driven .

Measured dad's old 77 mm key , yep 15 mm is shiny and worn.

So a remanufactured balancer shaft will have a 10x harder chrome vanadium hexagonal keyway insert with 40 mm of contact
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ALL unaddressed 2.0 TDI's will fail at some point .

He's not against VAG either , he drives an Audi A4 B7 3.0 TDI
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Either theory can end in disaster just wondered who was right ?

Hexagonal keyway bore or 6 tiny machined grooves ?

"instead of being a matching hexagonal hole , as is the case with the oil pump itself , is a bore with tiny machined grooves which drive the very tips of the 6mm hexagonal shaft "

Audi Driver magazine

Audibalshaftmag
 
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Hi guys sorry I know this is an a4 thread but I have this problem at the min with my a6 s-line 2.0 TDI, if my engine code is BRE and a 57 reg does this mean I have a chain or gear driven pump..! Mine is at the garage now being fixed under warranty but just wondering what level it will be fixed too, and I don't think I will be able to trust the car after this..!
 
Pretty sure it's chain driven
But if you read back what feels like several hundred pages I'm sure someone has mentioned a few engine codes with blb bre etc.

Saving up the now to get my own converted. Out of interest what you getting done under warranty.
 
I'm not too sure yet Germanwhip but as soon as I find out I will let you know.!
To be fair if they replace it with the same chain driven pump that's already on it then it should see me out only goin to have the car for 3 years then upgrade. They have said there is no engine damage and the turbo is fine but that is to be seen when I get it back..!!
 
Well under warranty you won't be caring about cost so that's a plus point. I feel like paying audi a visit myself :-/
 
mines BRE and gear driven 06 plate, I totally repaired mine and its been fine going on a year now (not the same failure type but same repair)
 
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I have had a look around the oil pump repairers and the BKD engine car is not mentioned as a potential oil pump failure.
Anyone know if BKD's have suffered up to now?
 
I thought this wouldnt happen to me, delusional i guess!! But the other day at 72k the oil pressure light came on and i didnt bother to stop immediately either. It was midnight and i wanted to get home so carried on for another 15 mins with and could feel the turbo had gone!!

Got it checked out the other day and got the balance shaft done, and a new turbo and the pump costing me a total on £1500 with a years guarantee.

Back on the road!
 
so every single person with one of these VW 2.0 tdi engines should get an oil pump modification done because every single one will 100% have a oil pump failure?
 
Seems to me they all seem to be going! It was said in this thread somewhere that it will happen at some point if you own one of them unless someone can correct me?
 
I had mine modified as I read too much forum info which scared me into it. Turns out the shaft that came out of mine st 80k (ish) was in great working order. Having said that no regrets as I have piece of mind now but I just don't agree every single one of the 77mm hex ones will fail at some point. Maybe if you have engines that get to 200k or something like that without something else killing them 1st then, ok yes the likelihood of faliure is high but I wouldn't be making a fuss at a failure at that sort of mileage.
 
May I add I don't disagree this is a bad design that is a weak point and is proven to be an issue but still I have seen no hard evidence to say all will fail
 
The balancer shaft keyway isn't hexagonal to accept a hexagonal drive key, it's madness.

The 77 mm hex drive key PD and CR has just 15 mm contact length with the keyway in the balancer shaft .

Later some CR received a hardended 100 mm hex key with 35 mm of contact length , over double !

Why did VAG do that , I've yet to learn of a 100 mm failure .
 
I'm not disputing anything you say other than "all of them WILL fail"
 
Actually not sure now I think about it, maybe I did If I did it would be posted on the other monster oil pump thread.
 
Forgot , there's 1 more reason for it failing making it 5 engineering faults .

A reason why some have failed and some haven't yet is some balancer shafts come out more acurate than others particularly ones with the keyway bore off center would speed up wear .

We are talking 0.1 mm .
 
I thought this wouldnt happen to me, delusional i guess!! But the other day at 72k the oil pressure light came on and i didnt bother to stop immediately either. It was midnight and i wanted to get home so carried on for another 15 mins with and could feel the turbo had gone!!

Got it checked out the other day and got the balance shaft done, and a new turbo and the pump costing me a total on £1500 with a years guarantee.

Back on the road!

If you drove for 15 minutes with the oil pressure warning light on (meaning you have extremely low or even zero oil pressure) and got away with just replacing the turbo (and offcourse the hex key itself), then consider yourself insanely lucky. I've read of loads of cases where the entire engine had to be rebuilt or replaced after oil pressure warning light came on. And I don't think anyone carried on driving for 15 minutes after the oil pressure warning came on....

Is there perhaps a difference whether the failure occurs in a gear driven engine or in a chain driven unit? If the tensioner fails in the chain drive, then the chain becomes loose and starts to wear the drive gear and starts to gradually slip more and more until the oil pressure falls so much that the warning light comes on? And the oil pressure has been low enough to cause mechanical damage a long time before the actual warning light comes on? Where as in the gear driven unit, once the hex shaft starts to spin in the key way, the oil pressure drops immediately?
 
Hi all

Just brought myself my first Audi, was really pleased until I read some of this.
Can anyone tell me if this balancer shift problem is on the 07 BRE engines?

Many thanks
 
Hi, mate, yes I had a 07 BRE 2.0 tdi and it had a balancer shaft car was px but a friend of ours bought it recently off the garage the car had 120k on it so I advised him to spend the £500 odd and get it done just in case ,

Si
 
Cheers for response si, do you know how hard it is to do, was thinking I could have a go myself?? Also does anyone know the part number?

Many thanks again
 
You need to speak to these guys mate in the link below. They are the best guys in the business and a really nice helpful guy to deal with.
Mine was a kit number 9 in the link but these guys will tell you if it's the correct one for yours but it should be the same as mine would have been.
I would never tackle it myself as its sump off and my local Indy said they can be a right B to get the old ones off as they have to be sweated off.
He quoted me £330 for cash once I supplied the part matey.

http://www.kmbpartsdirect.co.uk/oil_pumps.html#kit9
 
Second thoughts..... Just watched part of a video on you tube about how to change it, far beyond my curb side auto skills. Cheers for the link slightly annoyed as just had garage just did the Cambelt, would of been nice to do it all together. Hay ho

Thanks for your quick response help guys,
 
Soot1; I too have a BKD and as far as I know they don't have the same balancer shaft assembly, what they have is the same as the old Pd 130s which there were no problems with. I think they do have the hex key driving the oil pump however, so sill a concern there but I don't know what failures there have been if any. It is worth keeping up with servicing and good quality oil as always to prevent the likelihood of issues and that is what I am doing. A few years ago if you had an engine failure due to balancer shafts Audi seemed to be fitting a lot of BKDs as replacements, maybe not now though, again I am not sure. Biggest issue with BKDs seems to be Turbo failures, why BKDs and not others I don't know, if anyone does I would be interested?
There were kits around a while back to convert balancer shaft vehicles t the same drive as the non-balancer versions, I don't hear this mentioned any more, is there a reason for this?
 
BKD isn't immune.

Any 2.0 tdi , early chain or gear driven with a 77 mm hex drive key , even some later common rail engines got both 100 mm and 77 mm.
 
Ok I've added the new questions to the questionnaire but cant update the ones that have already been completed. Survey only allows 100 responses per month so its not that great but its a start, or maybe I'm being a little optimistic thinking I would get that many! Anyway if anyone can spare a few minutes to complete the survey I would be grateful thank you.

Link to survey below
http://www.smartsurvey.co.uk/s/141931QPZIS

P.S. don't worry no email or personal details are stored as none are asked for :). It really will take you only a few minutes to complete.



Hi there, I can see this is written quite some time ago but did you ever show the results to your survey? I would be interested to see.

Thanks
 
Hi all,

Not long had my 2.0avant 170 and now found out about this balance shaft problem looming, I think I have the gear driven (07 BRE) are there any indications I should look out for? Sadly lacking alot of info about the cars history so I don't know if it's been done. 100k on the colck.
 
Drop the sump and withdraw the key.

77mm it's probably oem and should show signs of wear at the end .

100mm it's been rectified.