50TDI Gearbox??

S

Sm27650

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Howdy folks,

Had my 50TDI coming up for 2 weeks; came from a 40TDI with the S-Tronic. Ordered the car when we were still in lockdown so didn’t get chance to drive one.

I’m noticing that the engine/gearbox isn’t as smooth as the 40/S-Tronic combo - the engine noise is more intrusive in the cabin and the gearbox ‘slips’.

I know the box is different and that it’s an old stool torque converter, but should I be experiencing what I’d describe as behaviour from a CVT (Multitronic) from earlier years where the revs would hold but speed would build?

The example being I can accelerate gently from standstill and the engine revs will build to 2.5k and hold there whilst it moves through the gears (1>3) but it’s very growly in the cabin during.

Does this sound normal?


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Sm27650 said:
Howdy folks,

Had my 50TDI coming up for 2 weeks; came from a 40TDI with the S-Tronic. Ordered the car when we were still in lockdown so didn’t get chance to drive one.

I’m noticing that the engine/gearbox isn’t as smooth as the 40/S-Tronic combo - the engine noise is more intrusive in the cabin and the gearbox ‘slips’.

I know the box is different and that it’s an old stool torque converter, but should I be experiencing what I’d describe as behaviour from a CVT (Multitronic) from earlier years where the revs would hold but speed would build?

The example being I can accelerate gently from standstill and the engine revs will build to 2.5k and hold there whilst it moves through the gears (1>3) but it’s very growly in the cabin during.

Does this sound normal?


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Click to expand...

It sounds absolutely normal to me.
I felt the same way when I got my 50tdi coming from dual clutch dsg in Passat.
To be honest 8 speed tiptronic gearbox you get in 50tdi with torque converter is way better than dual clutch you get 40tdi. Having said that the little trade off is slightly slower gear changes. But in terms of smoothness, reliability and ability to cope with 620NM of torque it’s a perfect choice. After few thousand miles you will love it.
Also when in very low speeds eg parking forward/reverse you will not get any jerks as occasionally in dual clutch.
Try to find the best drive mode for your driving style. Not sure what year is your 50tdi but if it is early model you may need to check drivetrain software version ( there was an update in mid 2020 to address lag between gear changes)
If none of the above helps you can always get a remap of both engine and gearbox which will turn your 50tdi to S6 stock without any strain to your engine and gearbox.


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Thx for the info. This is brand new, so hopefully has the latest software.

Anyone know how I can check?


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Sm27650 said:
Thx for the info. This is brand new, so hopefully has the latest software.

Anyone know how I can check?


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Click to expand...

Then definitely you have a new software no need to check it


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My 2019 50tdi is the exact same. Been into Audi twice and they said the update doesn't affect my car and that this behaviour is normal

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Anyone know if it’s torque limited in first? Doesn’t feel like the same amount of pull from setting off?


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Sm27650 said:
Anyone know if it’s torque limited in first? Doesn’t feel like the same amount of pull from setting off?


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Click to expand...
Mine feels sluggish from 1st and 2nd gear, 3rd onwards is where I feel like it properly picks up
 
Sm27650 said:
Anyone know if it’s torque limited in first? Doesn’t feel like the same amount of pull from setting off?


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It has to be otherwise you would be able to stop the wheel spin.

You can remap your engine and gearbox
Spoken to few guys and they say the car is so smooth and sporty afterwards.
I am going to do it next week.


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Sm27650 said:
Howdy folks,

Had my 50TDI coming up for 2 weeks; came from a 40TDI with the S-Tronic. Ordered the car when we were still in lockdown so didn’t get chance to drive one.

I’m noticing that the engine/gearbox isn’t as smooth as the 40/S-Tronic combo - the engine noise is more intrusive in the cabin and the gearbox ‘slips’.

I know the box is different and that it’s an old stool torque converter, but should I be experiencing what I’d describe as behaviour from a CVT (Multitronic) from earlier years where the revs would hold but speed would build?

The example being I can accelerate gently from standstill and the engine revs will build to 2.5k and hold there whilst it moves through the gears (1>3) but it’s very growly in the cabin during.

Does this sound normal?


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Click to expand...
You may have only had it two weeks but you might need to check the build date in the handbook. Many cars are coming out of stock and some were built as long ago as mid 2020 and have been sitting in storage, so unless yours was ordered especially that may be a consideration, you have to push the dealers regarding some of the updates. I have a 50 TDI Allroad Vorsprung, the first 1500 miles the gearbox was absolutely ****! Clunky around town and dropping first second and sometimes third gears harshly, feathering the throttle on the motorway produced lots of slop between backing off and asking for gentle power and when I required a lot more power it dropped too many gears and took off like a rocket. Audi West London did a reset on the gearbox and it's gradually improved over time. I'm at 10,000 miles and would say it's now generally sweet although take up in first can be a little aggressive as all the parts of the quattro system connect and I definitely still feel sometimes soft clunking in the lower gears occasionally when backing off and then asking for power again quickly intraffic. I'm not sure if these engines and gearboxes take awhile to settle down talk to each other, but mine is definitely better now and I always run it on super diesel which I find a little quieter than regular, probably because of the higher cetane rating. Keep an eye on the oil and let them warm up especially on these cold mornings.
 
Gently Bentley said:
You may have only had it two weeks but you might need to check the build date in the handbook. Many cars are coming out of stock and some were built as long ago as mid 2020 and have been sitting in storage, so unless yours was ordered especially that may be a consideration, you have to push the dealers regarding some of the updates. I have a 50 TDI Allroad Vorsprung, the first 1500 miles the gearbox was absolutely ****! Clunky around town and dropping first second and sometimes third gears harshly, feathering the throttle on the motorway produced lots of slop between backing off and asking for gentle power and when I required a lot more power it dropped too many gears and took off like a rocket. Audi West London did a reset on the gearbox and it's gradually improved over time. I'm at 10,000 miles and would say it's now generally sweet although take up in first can be a little aggressive as all the parts of the quattro system connect and I definitely still feel sometimes soft clunking in the lower gears occasionally when backing off and then asking for power again quickly intraffic. I'm not sure if these engines and gearboxes take awhile to settle down talk to each other, but mine is definitely better now and I always run it on super diesel which I find a little quieter than regular, probably because of the higher cetane rating. Keep an eye on the oil and let them warm up especially on these cold mornings.
Click to expand...
I might add that around town I have found originally the efficiency setting was quite good but even running 21 inch wheels I now stick to dynamic and sport for the gearbox, the car has learnt my style and it's still supremely comfortable and smooth most of the time, occasionally I wish there was a slightly firmer setting!
 
Gently Bentley said:
I might add that around town I have found originally the efficiency setting was quite good but even running 21 inch wheels I now stick to dynamic and sport for the gearbox, the car has learnt my style and it's still supremely comfortable and smooth most of the time, occasionally I wish there was a slightly firmer setting!
Click to expand...

I can confirm that I also feel like the gearbox handling has improved since I got it a year ago. It could be that the electronics are learning our driving style.
My favorite drive select setting is Individual with Steering in Comfort and Drivetrain in Normal/Automatic.


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Finally managed to get a small video; is this what everyone else is like? Would say it when pulling away on part throttle between 5 and 30 mph. No difference between D & S.

When it was in for the second key I asked them to take a look and they said it’s fine…

Thx!




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Is that dash layout only available on newer models? I don't have that

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Sm27650 said:
Finally managed to get a small video; is this what everyone else is like? Would say it when pulling away on part throttle between 5 and 30 mph. No difference between D & S.

When it was in for the second key I asked them to take a look and they said it’s fine…

Thx!




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Click to expand...


Anyone?


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Well on full volume I can’t hear anything, that’s why I asked.
 
Sorry, me being a prat. Assumed Imgur had the audio on, doesn’t for some reason. Will take a look.


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Hi Folks,

So I never managed to get a proper video to show the issue - had some other family health issues to deal with over the last 12 months or so, so this hasn't been a priority in the grand scheme of things.

So, i'm now just shy of 15k and I've finally figured out how to explain the issue: It doesn't happen from a stand-still, but rather when you're moving slowly, crawling in fact - e.g. traffic. Anything over 25-30 mph and it behaves perfectly. Long motorway journeys - perfect. It's only when it's slow speed (crawling speeds) around slow moving traffic, junctions, giving way, congestion, etc.

When you need to accelerate, it's almost as if the clutch hasn't engaged/disengaged properly and gives a slipping type behaviour (best way I can explain it!). I can hear the difference in the engine pitch between when the gearbox is engaged or this is happening.

My local dealer has looked at it a couple of times and say this is normal behaviour; Birmingham Audi had a brief test drive and said all OK. In all examples where I've been along, they haven't listened to me when explaining how to replicate the issue - they have just moved off from a standstill and cant replicate the issue.

I did take it to a local-ish independent VAG specialist; they have said they can see what I mean and can replicate it themselves, but go on to say this is a "feature" of this gearbox where it pre-selects gears. Birmingham Audi offered me the opportunity to test-drive another 50TDI equipped car, but never came through when I asked them to follow this up and just ignored me.

So - I'd appreciate a quick look at the below to see if this is how yours behaves or if there is something wrong.

First instance is about 18s, then 33s, then 1m ish, 1m50s, etc.

2022 Audi A6 50TDI TipTronic Behaviour - YouTube

(Might need to turn sound up a bit - camera was in a waterproof case).

Thanks in advance!
 
Sm27650 said:
Hi Folks,

So I never managed to get a proper video to show the issue - had some other family health issues to deal with over the last 12 months or so, so this hasn't been a priority in the grand scheme of things.

So, i'm now just shy of 15k and I've finally figured out how to explain the issue: It doesn't happen from a stand-still, but rather when you're moving slowly, crawling in fact - e.g. traffic. Anything over 25-30 mph and it behaves perfectly. Long motorway journeys - perfect. It's only when it's slow speed (crawling speeds) around slow moving traffic, junctions, giving way, congestion, etc.

When you need to accelerate, it's almost as if the clutch hasn't engaged/disengaged properly and gives a slipping type behaviour (best way I can explain it!). I can hear the difference in the engine pitch between when the gearbox is engaged or this is happening.

My local dealer has looked at it a couple of times and say this is normal behaviour; Birmingham Audi had a brief test drive and said all OK. In all examples where I've been along, they haven't listened to me when explaining how to replicate the issue - they have just moved off from a standstill and cant replicate the issue.

I did take it to a local-ish independent VAG specialist; they have said they can see what I mean and can replicate it themselves, but go on to say this is a "feature" of this gearbox where it pre-selects gears. Birmingham Audi offered me the opportunity to test-drive another 50TDI equipped car, but never came through when I asked them to follow this up and just ignored me.

So - I'd appreciate a quick look at the below to see if this is how yours behaves or if there is something wrong.

First instance is about 18s, then 33s, then 1m ish, 1m50s, etc.

2022 Audi A6 50TDI TipTronic Behaviour - YouTube

(Might need to turn sound up a bit - camera was in a waterproof case).

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Mine would do this occasionally in similar circumstances, rolling but not absolute stop-start traffic. I would ask for power to keep with the flow and momentarily the engine would turn into a 1.6 Peugeot! One observation was that it often did it when the engine was warm and I've been travelling for at least 20 minutes.
I thought I had read somewhere that it was a known issue, but most dealers were just writing it off as normal. I've had a lot of performance 3 L diesel engines and it's the only time I've experienced it.. Not apparent though, if one demands full power as the engine seems to get into the torque band very quickly. It's a funny old gearbox. It can be a bit crap around town. On the motorway, it seems to walk to sit at 75 at around 1300 revs which is not the sweet spot for this engine. Even the RS6 can drone whilst cruising because of the enforced low revs in 8th gear. I think emissions and fuel economy are at play in the mapping. A friend, who has an identical 3 L diesel engine has been running a cetane enhancer, and I have to say it did seem smoother and quieter when he took me for a spin. I have sold mine now.
 
Thanks. Sadly it doesnt make a difference if the engine is cold/hot - it's the same behaviour. I'm just at my wits end with it.

More embarrassing is when dropping the 9yr off at school, there's a small incline up the street and it sounds as if i'm trying to launch it up the hill - i'm not, i'm just trying to drive it steady...
 
That looks and sounds awful...my old.bmw 535d was like that..common problem.with that pre 06 zf gearbox. ..was torque convertor issue...May not be the case with yours.i cannot accept 50k + new car drives like that..
 
Steve940 said:
That looks and sounds awful...my old.bmw 535d was like that..common problem.with that pre 06 zf gearbox. ..was torque convertor issue...May not be the case with yours.i cannot accept 50k + new car drives like that..
Click to expand...

That’s the thing. I can’t not use the car but it’s driving me mad to the point where I’m that disappointed; I wished I’d never brought it.
 
To be honest mate my 50tdi doesn't do that. Seems yours is holding onto the gears far too long. Mine is well in 4th before 30mph.
Changes from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd aren't exactly smooth but mine doesn't rev up like yours. I don't think that's right

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Buxton2901 said:
To be honest mate my 50tdi doesn't do that. Seems yours is holding onto the gears far too long. Mine is well in 4th before 30mph.
Changes from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd aren't exactly smooth but mine doesn't rev up like yours. I don't think that's right

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Thx. I don’t think it’s right but Audi have fobbed me off, an email to the main customer services has also fobbed me off so I just don’t know where to turn to, to try and make this go away.


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You need to compare this so you know its not a characteristic of that model...keep pestering them..how hard can it be to take you out in another car for five minutes then take them in yours....
 
It seems like someone throw CVT there instead of tiptronic :)))))

what is the update ?

is this when you on comfort mode ?
 
No chance. Local dealer has done nothing beside reset adaptations.

I’m working on a different place now so will see about taking it to a different dealer on the way to work.

Yep, same when in comfort/dynamic/all modes.

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have you considered getting the tiptronic remapped ? I did remap on my S6 and will have to go back to do one more soft for the gearbox as is bit slow but nowhere near yours
 
I have but it’s a lease that’s got another 12m on it.

It’s a great car, just really really let down by this **** tuning.

I think it’s the same gearbox in different manufacturers just in a different package and they can get it right…


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Sm27650 said:
I have but it’s a lease that’s got another 12m on it.

It’s a great car, just really really let down by this **** tuning.

I think it’s the same gearbox in different manufacturers just in a different package and they can get it right…


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It won’t be the gearbox hardware it is more likely the software issue here. Its seems like the gearbox is not sure what to do, keep it on revs or put next gear in
 
rmbossvr6 said:
It won’t be the gearbox hardware it is more likely the software issue here. Its seems like the gearbox is not sure what to do, keep it on revs or put next gear in
Click to expand...

Yup. Will swing by a different dealer but not holding my breath. Tried that with one in Birmingham and they never called me back.


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rmbossvr6 said:
the one in Shirley or the one in Erdington ?
Click to expand...

The one in Shirley which is part of listers. Think the Erdington is Jardine which is the same as Tamworth and Halesowen and prob some others.


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How I knew you gonna say that :) for last couple of years the service level there went down. For my previous A6 I bought a full service plan called all in from Audi. 2 svcs, 2 mots and warranty, and breakdown cover - the lot.

My car was last serviced by third party so I went to them to use the 1st oil service so I'll have the other service and inspection still in my plan.

So they did the service and 3 weeks later I got light on my car is due inspection. So they want me to use the big service with inspection from my plan or charge me for the inspection and leave the remaining service in my plan.

Few phone calls and they did all free of charge and left my remaining service in my plan for future.

Audi is a good brand - but them private small businesses like Listers etc they the one who put people of the brand !

Try another dealer, unfortunately he will see all on his screen that you went to Shirley already
 
rmbossvr6 said:
How I knew you gonna say that :) for last couple of years the service level there went down. For my previous A6 I bought a full service plan called all in from Audi. 2 svcs, 2 mots and warranty, and breakdown cover - the lot.

My car was last serviced by third party so I went to them to use the 1st oil service so I'll have the other service and inspection still in my plan.

So they did the service and 3 weeks later I got light on my car is due inspection. So they want me to use the big service with inspection from my plan or charge me for the inspection and leave the remaining service in my plan.

Few phone calls and they did all free of charge and left my remaining service in my plan for future.

Audi is a good brand - but them private small businesses like Listers etc they the one who put people of the brand !

Try another dealer, unfortunately he will see all on his screen that you went to Shirley already
Click to expand...

I only go to an independent for servicing now for that reason but my closest main dealer is Tamworth.

Going to try Coventry to see if they can actually help


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