A couple of things about 1.8t engine building

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
Ah... ok... you only need an OE or Elring (same as OE) head gasket if not going 83mm bore... if going 83mm bore then I know Bill has used TFSi head gaskets although not sure exactly which one

8.5:1 is quite a low CR tbh... 9:1 is as low as I would have gone tbh and the thicker head gasket will only lower that more...

I used 9.25:1 and an Elring/OE headgasket producing over 600hp... the higher CR will help off boost

<tuffty/>
 

Djordje1

Member
Thank you @<tuffty/> ,

I already bought 8:5.1 pistons, but let's is if I can swap it for this one>>JE 9.25:1 would be good enough?
Thank you so much


1637918796392.png
 
Last edited:

Djordje1

Member
9.25:1 will be fine... do they stock the uprated pins too? worth doing IMO if they do

<tuffty/>
They answer me that there is no problem swapping for one of these, but the current problem is that there is no stock at the moment. They will get JE pistons for 3,4 weeks. I know that have a set, but not sure just for pins...This set is 144x20
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
the pins are still 20mm but thicker tool steel... std ones can (subjectively) bend or break... have seen it a couple of times but it does really depend on the circumstances

The fact that they can fail is enough that I would go for the uprated pins myself... assuming they do them

<tuffty/>
 

Djordje1

Member
the pins are still 20mm but thicker tool steel... std ones can (subjectively) bend or break... have seen it a couple of times but it does really depend on the circumstances

The fact that they can fail is enough that I would go for the uprated pins myself... assuming they do them

<tuffty/>
Oh I get it, there is an option by Bartek,I'll definitely take this one as well, they looks thicker

This is the price per piece... :D

1637924092169.png
 

Djordje1

Member
Hey,
Is there any place I can by pipes for the intercooler?Which size I need?

Thank you,
Djordje

Sent from my Mi A3 using Tapatalk
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
nothing off the shelf as such... you will have to put something together using alloy and silicon bends or fabricate (TIG weld) your own from alloy bends... 63mm OD is fine as a size

<tuffty/>
 

Djordje1

Member
nothing off the shelf as such... you will have to put something together using alloy and silicon bends or fabricate (TIG weld) your own from alloy bends... 63mm OD is fine as a size

<tuffty/>
Thank you @<tuffty/> ,
I'm thinking to go with stainless steel 63mm x 1.5mm wall and use silicone bends to do the piping. I hope this will be good enough, If I find someone who can make it nice, I'll rather go with welded version and nice clamps.
 

Djordje1

Member
Ali is better but either way don't forget to bead roll the ends

<tuffty/>
Oh Yes!Definitely I'll make sure everything is bead rolled before I mount...

btw just checking JE pistons on the bartek websites and my plan is to take the default version of the JE pistons, but here it says if you take the pistons model with the "Q" you need cooling nozzles...Do I need cooling nozzles at all?Is there any by default on the oe engine block?

1638223383404.png




Thank you,
Djordje
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
1.8t's already have oil squirters... no idea what the difference is between a 'Q' and non 'Q' piston... never come across that before and never had the need to fit anything other than OE squirters...

I would ask them what the difference is and make an informed choice... I have seen JE's that have been machined under the crowns to make them 'lighter' but this makes the crown thinner and I have see them blow holes through so if the 'Q' is that then avoid those ones

<tuffty/>
 

Djordje1

Member
1.8t's already have oil squirters... no idea what the difference is between a 'Q' and non 'Q' piston... never come across that before and never had the need to fit anything other than OE squirters...

I would ask them what the difference is and make an informed choice... I have seen JE's that have been machined under the crowns to make them 'lighter' but this makes the crown thinner and I have see them blow holes through so if the 'Q' is that then avoid those ones

<tuffty/>
Hey @<tuffty/> first of all I want to thank you for all your posts!YOu helped me a lot.

btw I checked with Bartek's support, and I have some conclusions, but not really sure. I need your thoughts.
They are probably very busy or shy...
This is our conversation...
1638309298795.png



How ever I found this info on ther page for the other set of JE pistons...Q version is probably I guess asymmetrical version of the pistons...
1638309380415.png



Which serious of the pistons you used on your build and how much power you run on them? If they can keep just 500hp that is not enought for me...I'm planing to run g25-550 and that is literaly on the edge.


Thank you,
Djordje
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
Ok so the 'Q' is essentially like a slipper piston design.... makes the piston a bit lighter and with less contact area on the non thrust face... typically suited to high RPM applications...

never used that style of piston in any build I have been involved with on a 20v... can't see there being a need for you either so I'd stick with the non Q pistons...

I have built 600+hp capable 20v's using normal JE pistons so don't know where this "500hp" figure comes from given the OE pistons will do that at a push...

<tuffty/>
 

Djordje1

Member
Ok so the 'Q' is essentially like a slipper piston design.... makes the piston a bit lighter and with less contact area on the non thrust face... typically suited to high RPM applications...

never used that style of piston in any build I have been involved with on a 20v... can't see there being a need for you either so I'd stick with the non Q pistons...

I have built 600+hp capable 20v's using normal JE pistons so don't know where this "500hp" figure comes from given the OE pistons will do that at a push...

<tuffty/>
Thank you so much for your reply, yes exactly, That's why I'm confused as well with their answer that 500 is max. I'll stick to the non-Q version and go with that. Should be prey enough if you run them on 600 :)

Btw is there any benefit to going with 82.5 instead of 82mm? pistons? If I choose 82.5 I still can use the OE head gasket.

Cheers!
 

Djordje1

Member
No advantages at all tbh... I used 82mm as it kept the bore wall a bit thicker... just gave me a bit more piece of mind for running the higher boost etc

<tuffty/>
That's what I thought as well,thank you so much for quick reply :D cant wait to build the engine :))))
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
I will steal the thread for another question that came up.
Whats the opinion on running these injectors with AET380 turbo and possibly e85 in the furure : https://www.finjector.com/eng/ev14_957_cc_12_ohm_jet_mid_o_o_50_mm_with_bottom_adapter-p-489789

Would there be any idle or low rpm running issues?

No idea tbh... we don't have a very big E85 scene in the UK and I personally have never used it so cannot comment...

That said I used 1000cc injectors on my 20v and on Ignitron (and ME7 from memory) they idled fine but obviously they are a little non linear at the low pulse widths on normal fuel... on E85 I would imagine they would be a little better as the on times will be longer at idle on E85 than on normal fuel so won't hit the non linearity zone as much

<tuffty/>
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
For an AET380 on 'pump' fuel, Bosch 610's

<tuffty/>
 

LordSidious

New Member
Ok , then will take the 630cc i posted.
So you all run plug adapters from uscar to jetronic or modify the harness to suit?

Cheers guys, thanks for info.i really appreciate it.
 

Djordje1

Member
Step by step,I'm refining my list and changing the parts that you suggest.
One of that that @Rainbird commented is my manifold intake.Ill return this one and I'll buy another one.Im just wondering which is the best for my application?

There is a three very popular.
IE
Sem
Grams
also do I need spacer large to small,because I run 06a that is a small port if I'm right.Or you suggest to port my head and make holes bigger.
Spacer sounds like good options to make barrier for the heat.

Thank you everyone,
Djorjde

Sent from my Mi A3 using Tapatalk
 

Rainbird

Registered User
If you can get hold of an SEM they seem the best of the bunch, but are like rocking horse sh*t to track down these days which is a shame.
IE and Grams are pretty similar from memory (correct me if I'm mistaken) and will give a nice increase in plenum volume which is one of the main benefits - from there, you want to ensure a decent intact path with minimal injector restriction (stock manifold is pretty poor on that front, but it isn't an issue at the factory power levels for which they're designed)

If you plan to keep the small port head, then you'll want runners or a transitional spacer to match. I'd be inclined to go with matching runners rather than a spacer if possible, but realistically there's probably not a huge difference in end result.

The FMIC Pro part you mentioned before may not be too bad, but I'm yet to see much data on them so would lean towards a proven upgrade if it was my money.
 

Djordje1

Member
If you can get hold of an SEM they seem the best of the bunch, but are like rocking horse sh*t to track down these days which is a shame.
IE and Grams are pretty similar from memory (correct me if I'm mistaken) and will give a nice increase in plenum volume which is one of the main benefits - from there, you want to ensure a decent intact path with minimal injector restriction (stock manifold is pretty poor on that front, but it isn't an issue at the factory power levels for which they're designed)

If you plan to keep the small port head, then you'll want runners or a transitional spacer to match. I'd be inclined to go with matching runners rather than a spacer if possible, but realistically there's probably not a huge difference in end result.

The FMIC Pro part you mentioned before may not be too bad, but I'm yet to see much data on them so would lean towards a proven upgrade if it was my money.
Thank you @Rainbird for your answer.
I literally decided based on your comment that it maybe look good but actually is not very efficient. Unfortunately, I don't have an instrument to measure flow, but I think it's better for me to take something that I know works well.


IE it's a bit expensive, but grames looks actually very similar. I just found a video that shows injector leaking on the grams intake manifold and I'm thinking now is this because of the bad mount or it's just a not very good and quality intake itself. Should I then stick on IE or I'll be safe with Grams?

Guys?! What do you think? Does anyone else have any problems with Grams?
btw what is the difference between 034 and Grams?
Do I need a bigger throttle body? What is the OEM size?

Thank you, everyone,
Djordje
 

Djordje1

Member
Hey everyone,
I need a bigger intercooler for my new beetle. You recommend 600 300 76, I guess I'll pack this under the bumper:) I'm just wondering is this one good enough or I need something else?
@<tuffty/>

Thank you, everyone,
Djordje
 

Djordje1

Member
Inter cooler is fine, you don't need 76mm pipework though... 63mm will be fine and more likely easier to fit
Thank you for quick response @

I'll buy this one and pipes 63 as you said..btw what is your thoughts about my post #70?

thank you,
Djordje

Sent from my Mi A3 using Tapatalk
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
Not used a 'Grams' but have used an 034 and wasn't too impressed...

OE TB is 60mm... this has been used on 500hp engines in the past but its not ideal... I personally use a 70mm TB as this is about the right size for 63mm pipework IMO... I used the same TB on both my 600hp 20v and 500hp VR...

70mm TB is PN 078133062C and typically from a V6 or V8 VAG engine... it will need a few bead welds on it to be suitable for a turbo application but other than that most people go for an 80mm TB which is quite a large unit

<tuffty/>
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
just found a picture of the grams... looks exactly the same as the 034 so would imagine its performance would be similar ergo not as good as a SEM or IE...

They need a bigger plenum IMO

<tuffty/>
 

Djordje1

Member
Not used a 'Grams' but have used an 034 and wasn't too impressed...

OE TB is 60mm... this has been used on 500hp engines in the past but its not ideal... I personally use a 70mm TB as this is about the right size for 63mm pipework IMO... I used the same TB on both my 600hp 20v and 500hp VR...

70mm TB is PN 078133062C and typically from a V6 or V8 VAG engine... it will need a few bead welds on it to be suitable for a turbo application but other than that most people go for an 80mm TB which is quite a large unit

Amazing!Thank you so much.Ill go with this one,do you have any picture btw?Can you share it how you modified yours to fit on turbo application?

Cheers,
Djordje

Sent from my Mi A3 using Tapatalk
 

Djordje1

Member
just found a picture of the grams... looks exactly the same as the 034 so would imagine its performance would be similar ergo not as good as a SEM or IE...

They need a bigger plenum IMO
Ok then,probably the IE is most expensive,but probably the best solution at the moment,because sem is very hard to find...

Ill try to by IE with 70mm as you mentioned,I hope I'll find it easy.

Thank you again!!!!

Sent from my Mi A3 using Tapatalk
 

Djordje1

Member
Ok then,probably the IE is most expensive,but probably the best solution at the moment,because sem is very hard to find...

Ill try to by IE with 70mm as you mentioned,I hope I'll find it easy.

Thank you again!!!!

Sent from my Mi A3 using Tapatalk
Hey @<tuffty/> ,
I just found ie intake manifold, but looks like that there are just two options? 60mm and 80mm, Do I need to take 80mm and make a reducer for a 70 mm throttle body? Or do I need to buy 60mm options and do the opposite?

Thanks
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
Ah yeah... thats a thing... so... I would go for the 80mm option... that way you can either get an adaptor plate made for the 70mm or... just use the 80mm...

If budget is not really an issue arguably the 80mm TB is a sensible choice... this is primarily down to availability and the fact it will fit directly to the IE inlet...

I personally have never run an 80mm... but that was more down to me being a tight a** and not wanting to spend more money for no realistic gain on my setup...

Plus I have easy access to fabrication facilities that makes modding stuff to fit a bit easier...

In hind sight the 80mm TB and inlet is most likely the better option for you...

<tuffty/>
 

Djordje1

Member
Ah yeah... thats a thing... so... I would go for the 80mm option... that way you can either get an adaptor plate made for the 70mm or... just use the 80mm...

If budget is not really an issue arguably the 80mm TB is a sensible choice... this is primarily down to availability and the fact it will fit directly to the IE inlet...

I personally have never run an 80mm... but that was more down to me being a tight a** and not wanting to spend more money for no realistic gain on my setup...

Plus I have easy access to fabrication facilities that makes modding stuff to fit a bit easier...

In hind sight the 80mm TB and inlet is most likely the better option for you...

<tuffty/>
@<tuffty/> Thank you so much! I'll follow your advice. I'll try to find some nice suitable 80mm electronic throttle body that's fit 1.8t.


btw related to the intercooler pipes and all the things I have to attach to them. Here is the picture just for the presentation purpose...
YOu can see where I'm planning to put bov und the bow is intercooler map sensor, but I'm wondering do I need that two little pipe near the turbo?\
Do I need anythong else except bov and intercool map sensor? Thank you
1638822465770.png
 
Top