About to buy but want to make sure I'm not getting ripped off. :)

[NevMan]

@DrEskimo a very thorough analysis, and useful read, just a few comments:

- Undoubtedly you "pay more" if focusing on monthlies, but for a lot of us that is how we get into these cars, that maybe we couldn't afford normally.
- Personal loans over £7.5k are quite hard to get for most people even with excellent credit ratings.
- The "used" future value in 4 years time will not be accurate, as depends on condition, amount of owners, spec etc
- The balloon payment you talk about for new GFV (Guaranteed future value), is as it says, guaranteed, and owing to Audi's excellent residuals, I have always come out at least £2k above this with last few cars (except last A6 as mentioned above, but that was my choice), so the figure of an extra £5,400 is not accurate (in my opinion).

Anyway, that is why we have these forums, as everyone has their own opinions. I personally am happy paying x amount monthly, and flip my cars every 2 years, as that is what I like and choose to do and get into brand new cars with warranty, nice toys etc etc
I always push for a very good (in my opinion) discount on the spec I want, and off I go
-

 

[DrEskimo]

I am not going into my personal opinions. I am just listing facts of the different finance options to help the OP.

I have vocalised my opinion on them enough and just get lambasted for it on this forum now, so will avoid that.

- The balloon payment you talk about for new GFV (Guaranteed future value), is as it says, guaranteed, and owing to Audi's excellent residuals, I have always come out at least £2k above this with last few cars (except last A6 as mentioned above, but that was my choice), so the figure of an extra £5,400 is not accurate (in my opinion).

Fair point. But if the trade in of the new car is +£2k compared to the GFV, then it stands to reason that the trade in of a 6month old version of exactly the same car will be higher than the GFV Audi used too, so will also see savings in deprecation.

Appreciate your point that this might be higher on a new car vs. a used car though, so might not be as high as £5,400.

 

[NevMan]

funny how the 3-6 month old cars aren't much cheaper at all than new

@DrEskimo . you are bang on with your evaluation of PCP financing, PCP is only good for the dealers pocket. The reason for PCP is to entice people to buy a car at a price they can't really afford but they don't appreciate that until they get to the end of the PCP and can't afford the final payment to own the car, the alternative is to hand the car back and have nothing!

I love PCP as it gives me loads of 2 and 3 year old cars to choose from on the used market for a huge discount.

Why would you hand back fro nothing at end of PCP? That you would do halfway through. At the end you either:

- P/X and new new one
- Sell privately and pocket difference between GFV and actual value

I am a sucker for brand new, so my dealer (who is a mate) loves it. It is a business after all, so of course they are making money, but wouldn't have it any other way

 

[DrEskimo]

What about cars from non-Audi dealers too...?

There's a 17plate 2.0TFSI S-Line S-Tronic in Daytona for @£21,875 here.
Considering you get the Audi manufacturers warranty as standard, I'm not sure what buying a nearly new car from Audi gives you that another dealer can't...?

There's supposedly the 145-point check, but as one chap on here who got sold a car with rodent damage all in the bonnet (and Audi are refusing to fix even under warranty...), this can count for pretty much nothing...!

....ooo actually sod the A3, get this!

https://www.thecarcouk1.co.uk/used-...tback-s-tronic-quattro-ss-5dr-201711301709278

 

[New S4 Man]

@DrEskimo Very good analysis.

I looked at buying a new S3 on PCP but ended up going used with a bank loan. After doing the sums I just couldn't see the value in PCP. Personally I think PCP is a fantastic product - for the car companies that is, not us punters. It helps to obscure the huge cost of depreciation on a new car.

 

[NevMan]

cracking cars, especially the S5 (6 months warranty left to spot major issues
As mentioned earlier, I cannot argue used is MUCH better value, given you lose VAT, options added etc etc etc, BUT

I STILL LOVE BRAND NEW, THE SUCKER I AM

 

[Bells]

Ended up buying my S3 on a PCP to get the £2500 deposit contribution and then financed the remaining balance with a bank loan within 14 days. Said I’d never buy brand new and looking at how much value my car has lost compared to list price I don’t think I would again, but I got circa 20% discount on list price so that offsets it a bit. I also think depreciation levels out a bit after 1 year so hopefully it’ll look better in another year or so

Saying all that I am still yet to see a used S3 in the colour / spec I was looking for a year on, so sometimes you have to buy new to get exactly what you want

 

[Chris43]

All new cars loose a stack of money in the first few months, but its wrong to blame it all on depreciation. The car loses 20% of its value the second you drive it off the forecourt on collection day as it effectively becomes a used car which doesnt doesn't attract the standard 20% VAT charge. On top of that you lose around another grand on the delivery charge, first registration fee and 1st year RFL.

On a 40k car that's 9k or almost a quarter of it's value before the car truly starts to depreciate

Im a sucker for a new car but it comes at a price.

 

[Chris43]

What about cars from non-Audi dealers too...?

Good point, ive had my A3 7 months and I've used 2 dealers in the north west. The first one that supplied car, I will never set foot in their again thanks to non existing after sales service - Bolton Audi.

The second, Stockport Audi wasn't a lot better.

Considering Audi is a premium brand my experience has been way below my expectations

 

[S32B]

Hi eveyone I think I found the car I wanted. It is the Audi A3 2.0 TDI S Line 5dr S tronic £24,962. I went to my local audi with my mom but in all honestly she is clueless just like me but what can I do lol. Also the car wasn't in the showroom.

The sales lady said it has virtual cockpit but I didn't ask the rest because I forgot. She printed me off this http://imgur.com/gallery/PWSlkra

As you can see the "features" section it does not say anything about virtual cockpit and the rest of the specs? What is ABS/EBD, ASR, EDL etc?

What should I ask or look for?

Is the car worth the money? She also said this is a brilliant deal because blah blah blah but thats what they all say right? also may someone find the page for the car because maybe the website will show the rest of the specs etc? I cannot find it anywhere


I really appreciate the help everyone

As you asked about the one you have seen, I just looked on AT, these are all the 5 door diesel s-tronics with under 10,000 miles on the clock and up to the price you menton, tbh I'd go for the black edition one which is cheaper! You can see yours 2nd from bottom:

 

[S32B]

@DrEskimo . you are bang on with your evaluation of PCP financing, PCP is only good for the dealers pocket. The reason for PCP is to entice people to buy a car at a price they can't really afford but they don't appreciate that until they get to the end of the PCP and can't afford the final payment to own the car, the alternative is to hand the car back and have nothing!

I love PCP as it gives me loads of 2 and 3 year old cars to choose from on the used market for a huge discount.

The reason for PCP is so that you can own a brand new car and switch it every 3 years without the worry of unexpected bills! If you go into it with the idea of handing it back at the end and starting again you can't have any nasty surprises. If there is equity in the car it's a bonus, if not!!!

I just have a figure set on how much I want to lose/spend on a car each month and get the best car for that figure, then after 3 years start again....as long as you are happy with that pcp works well. I had the S3 on a 4 year deal, switched it in just before it was 3 years old for a brand new A5 coupe for the same monthly payments...to keep the S3 would have cost me £1,000 for tyres, big service and extended the warranty. It cost me under that to change the car and get everything covered for another 3 years, I'll do the same again next time....or may just get a lease deal such as this https://www.seatwarrington.co.uk/newcars/details/seat/leon-hatchback/20-tsi-cupra-300-5dr-dsg/17258/ not even £10 per day...some people spend that on cigarettes!

 

[S32B]

The car loses 20% of its value the second you drive it off the forecourt on collection day as it effectively becomes a used car which doesnt doesn't attract the standard 20% VAT charge.

No it doesn't, the VAT doesn't just vanish instantly! It's still reflective in the used prices, otherwise they'd never sell any new cars.

I bought my brand new S3 for £28,500 (after discount), so on the 20% loss straight away theory my car would have been worth £22,800 @ a day old!

The reg and model I had are still selling for £22,500 - £23,000 at 3 years old, which is around the price I paid minus the so called 20% instant loss....after 3 years!

EDIT* If you're a mug and pay the full price with no discount at all, then yes you do lose a lot more but who pays full price???

 

[NevMan]

The reason for PCP is so that you can own a brand new car and switch it every 3 years without the worry of unexpected bills! If you go into it with the idea of handing it back at the end and starting again you can't have any nasty surprises. If there is equity in the car it's a bonus, if not!!!

I just have a figure set on how much I want to lose/spend on a car each month and get the best car for that figure, then after 3 years start again....as long as you are happy with that pcp works well. I had the S3 on a 4 year deal, switched it in just before it was 3 years old for a brand new A5 coupe for the same monthly payments...to keep the S3 would have cost me £1,000 for tyres, big service and extended the warranty. It cost me under that to change the car and get everything covered for another 3 years, I'll do the same again next time....or may just get a lease deal such as this https://www.seatwarrington.co.uk/newcars/details/seat/leon-hatchback/20-tsi-cupra-300-5dr-dsg/17258/ not even £10 per day...some people spend that on cigarettes!

Spot on, and exactly how I see it, but each to their own and all that


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[S32B]

Spot on, and exactly how I see it, but each to their own and all that


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Thanks Like you say everyone has their own ideas on not just cars!

I recently started working with a guy I've never worked with before, we got chatting and I said that I'd bought myself a nice watch last year, he said that he thinks watches are a waste of money and doesn't like them...I bit my lip said "Everyone has their own opinions" and left it there!
The next day he said that his wife was moaning that she has a constant cough, I asked what was up? He replied with "It's her own fault, she smokes a pack of fags everyday", so I said what a waste of money , 365 x a pack of fags is more than what my watch cost me and that doesn't give me cancer at the end....we left it there

 

[LaurenP]

Sorry for not replying to everyone's comment. I have pmed most of you

I have made a new thread and decided to get the 1.5 instead thanks everyone!!!

 

[Pook]

Ended up buying my S3 on a PCP to get the £2500 deposit contribution and then financed the remaining balance with a bank loan within 14 days. Said I’d never buy brand new and looking at how much value my car has lost compared to list price I don’t think I would again, but I got circa 20% discount on list price so that offsets it a bit. I also think depreciation levels out a bit after 1 year so hopefully it’ll look better in another year or so

Saying all that I am still yet to see a used S3 in the colour / spec I was looking for a year on, so sometimes you have to buy new to get exactly what you want

You got 20% off list on your new S3...?

 

[S32B]

You got 20% off list on your new S3...?

I was shocked at that as well, it used to be a good deal at 10-11%, so I just had a quick look and the 1st place I tried (basic spec):

 

[Pook]

I was shocked at that as well, it used to be a good deal at 10-11%, so I just had a quick look and the 1st place I tried (basic spec):

View attachment 156361 View attachment 156362 View attachment 156363

Very nice, which website was this? You had yours a while now? I’m looking to change into an S3 but I need 15% at least really for it to work for me with all the options added.

 

[Bells]

You got 20% off list on your new S3...?

Yep, that is including the deposit contribution though which was about £2500 if I remember correctly as I got the 3 door.

Ordered Feb 17 and took delivery a couple months later in May.

 

[Pook]

Yep, that is including the deposit contribution though which was about £2500 if I remember correctly as I got the 3 door.

Ordered Feb 17 and took delivery a couple months later in May.

Nice

 

[L_G]

From one of the links above, I thought this was a bargain at 90% off

https://www.jardinemotors.co.uk/audi/used-cars/8633410-audi-a4-avant-5-dr/

 

[Matt Titanium]

From one of the links above, I thought this was a bargain at 90% off

https://www.jardinemotors.co.uk/audi/used-cars/8633410-audi-a4-avant-5-dr/

Are silver Audis difficult to sell?

 

[S32B]

Very nice, which website was this? You had yours a while now? I’m looking to change into an S3 but I need 15% at least really for it to work for me with all the options added.

https://www.coast2coastcars.co.uk/car-quote/ I switched my S3 late last year, got a great deal on the A5 coupe with 21.4% off (big car).
My best quote came via carwow from a dealership right down south, though I didn't tell my local dealership that when I asked them to match it

I got the 3 door.

Be a rare car now, not doing the 3 door anymore

From one of the links above, I thought this was a bargain at 90% off

https://www.jardinemotors.co.uk/audi/used-cars/8633410-audi-a4-avant-5-dr/

lol be funny to walk in with the cash and say "I want that at the screen price and don't want to negotiate in any way"

 

[Bells]

Be a rare car now, not doing the 3 door anymore

I think it will, I haven’t seen another 3 door FL S3 in a year since I got mine, seems to only be 5 doors and saloons near me.

Off topic but what do you think of your A5 compared to your S3? An S5 or RS3 may be on the cards for me next

 

[Chris43]

No it doesn't, the VAT doesn't just vanish instantly! It's still reflective in the used prices, otherwise they'd never sell any new cars.

I bought my brand new S3 for £28,500 (after discount), so on the 20% loss straight away theory my car would have been worth £22,800 @ a day old!

The reg and model I had are still selling for £22,500 - £23,000 at 3 years old, which is around the price I paid minus the so called 20% instant loss....after 3 years!

EDIT* If you're a mug and pay the full price with no discount at all, then yes you do lose a lot more but who pays full price???

You're using a set of convenient figures to demonstrate your point. 2nd cars do not attract VAT. So in theory they lose 20% of their value. Dress the figures anyway you like that is fact. Everyone knows depreciation isnt linear, the cars value in 3 yrs is entirely a different matter.

I'm a mug? Not really, I'm savvy enough to run my A3 as a company car which costs me a couple of hundred quid in tax each month. Depreciation rate, insurance and running costs are not my problem. Neither is the value in 3 yrs time when I give it back.

 

[S32B]

I think it will, I haven’t seen another 3 door FL S3 in a year since I got mine, seems to only be 5 doors and saloons near me.

Off topic but what do you think of your A5 compared to your S3? An S5 or RS3 may be on the cards for me next

Two types of beasts mate, the A5 is a comfy cruiser the S3 it all out hot hatch! Looks wise I do prefer the A5!!! but I miss the power and quattro of the S3 at times.

You're using a set of convenient figures to demonstrate your point. 2nd cars do not attract VAT. So in theory they lose 20% of their value. Dress the figures anyway you like that is fact. Everyone knows depreciation isnt linear, the cars value in 3 yrs is entirely a different matter.

I'm a mug? Not really, I'm savvy enough to run my A3 as a company car which costs me a couple of hundred quid in tax each month. Depreciation rate, insurance and running costs are not my problem. Neither is the value in 3 yrs time when I give it back.

1) I never said that you are a mug! I said only mugs pay full price for a car.

2) Why are my figures convenient? they aren't convenient they are fact! My very first post when I ordered the S3:

I paid £28,645! so if we quote/use your '20% loss straight away' takes my car value to = £22,916 'the second I drove off the forecourt on collection day'. However, Mike Brewer was offering me just under that to buy the car straight off me (no px) after 19 months, not the next day, week, month or even year later :

So if I had sold it straight away or even 6 month later, I'd have got a lot more than the price I paid - 20%, no dressing up of figures there

YES I agree with you, cars do lose money and a lot of it, but not 20% as soon as you drive away in it and that was my point.

As for "Depreciation rate, insurance and running costs are not my problem. Neither is the value in 3 yrs time when I give it back" good on you, but I don't lose much sleep over it tbh. It cost me £1,000 to change from the S3 to the A5 coupe after 2.5 years, I set a figure that I'm happy to blow on a car each month and get whatever I can for that figure (some people spend what I pay for my car on gambling, fags, drink etc.). I have no debts and the mortgage is paid off, so I can afford to blow more than most of my family/friends on a car. I even came off the works car scheme to get the S3 as it suited me better (and I work for a car manufacturer ), I was changing cars every 6 months and it got a bit annoying switching them so often and obviously they are not Audi!

 

[Chris43]

I cant argue with your figures,

however a new 1.5tsi A3 black edition S Tronic is a little under £32k on the road price. There's a 2 month old car for sale, pretty much the same (I didnt check the exact options) on the Audi website for sale for £26750. Ok this isnt 20% less but you then need to take off another £2k - £3k of dealer margin for the cars true value. Putting it another way if I turned up at Audi and traded that 2 month old car in they would not give me £26750. Alternatively, it would be hard to achieve £26750 selling privately.

All very general figures I know but you can see what im getting at.

 

[S32B]

I cant argue with your figures,

however a new 1.5tsi A3 black edition S Tronic is a little under £32k on the road price. There's a 2 month old car for sale, pretty much the same (I didnt check the exact options) on the Audi website for sale for £26750. Ok this isnt 20% less but you then need to take off another £2k - £3k of dealer margin for the cars true value. Putting it another way if I turned up at Audi and traded that 2 month old car in they would not give me £26750. Alternatively, it would be hard to achieve £26750 selling privately.

All very general figures I know but you can see what im getting at.

Yes I see your point mate and that's what I meant earlier in the thread when I said only a mug pays full price. Paying full price will obviously be closer to you losing 20% instantly. A perfect example, I got 21.4% off the A5, if I had paid the list price and not requested any discount, I'd be down more than that now if I went to px or sell privately.

I paid £29,300 for my brand new 67 plate 2.0 stronic s-line with a few choice options...if I were after a used 67 plate now, I'd get the same sort of spec/year for similar money lol just noticed the second one is showing £588 on a pcp with £1,000 deposit, mine is £388 with £1,000 deposit

 

[TYb]

Yes I see your point mate and that's what I meant earlier in the thread when I said only a mug pays full price. Paying full price will obviously be closer to you losing 20% instantly. A perfect example, I got 21.4% off the A5, if I had paid the list price and not requested any discount, I'd be down more than that now if I went to px or sell privately.

I paid £29,300 for my brand new 67 plate 2.0 stronic s-line with a few choice options...if I were after a used 67 plate now, I'd get the same sort of spec/year for similar money lol just noticed the second one is showing £588 on a pcp with £1,000 deposit, mine is £388 with £1,000 deposit

View attachment 156522

How on early did you get such a discount with minimal deposit?

 

[Bells]

How on early did you get such a discount with minimal deposit?

Do deposits link with discount %’s?

 

[TYb]

Do deposits link with discount %’s?

Just based on my own experience I’ve found that dealer is more flexible if willing to put a bit more in at the beginning.

 

[Bells]

Just based on my own experience I’ve found that dealer is more flexible if willing to put a bit more in at the beginning.

Ah right, to be honest I would’ve thought that the less deposit you put down the better from a dealers point of view. A smaller deposit equals a higher amount borrowed and in turn allows more interest to charge against.

 

[S32B]

How on early did you get such a discount with minimal deposit?

By using online tools to get the best quote possible, then asking my local dealership to match it! On this occasion they asked to see the quote! so I sent it them with the dealerships name blanked out They said they’d need to speak to the business manager and get back to me. I was expecting them to tell me to jog on, but when they said they’d match it I was there like a shot to place the order lol.

I know a guy that works for Warrington Audi and I asked him to look at the deal, he said snap their arm off! He couldn’t get anywhere close!!!

I only said how much I wanted to throw in once the price had been agreed. I also keep my old car and new car separate, that way I know exactly how much I’m getting for the old one and how much I’m getting the new one for and always have the option of selling the old car privately without affecting the new car deal, which I did with the S3. They were shocked when I said they weren’t having the S3, I think they were banking on making some money back on that!


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[NevMan]

You're using a set of convenient figures to demonstrate your point. 2nd cars do not attract VAT. So in theory they lose 20% of their value. Dress the figures anyway you like that is fact. Everyone knows depreciation isnt linear, the cars value in 3 yrs is entirely a different matter.

I'm a mug? Not really, I'm savvy enough to run my A3 as a company car which costs me a couple of hundred quid in tax each month. Depreciation rate, insurance and running costs are not my problem. Neither is the value in 3 yrs time when I give it back.

Wow, so £2.4k in tax a year, ouch!
That is why I got out of company car scheme way back, rather pay my Monthlies on PCP, look after car and swap after 2-3 years, and always get at least my deposit back. As mentioned above set figure I am happy to pay per month, that some spend on fags or booze, and get what I like and want


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[NevMan]

Just based on my own experience I’ve found that dealer is more flexible if willing to put a bit more in at the beginning.

That shouldn’t be the case at all, my dealer always tells me not to put too much in, as no point


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[TYb]

That shouldn’t be the case at all, my dealer always tells me not to put too much in, as no point


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As I said from my experience and I’m only talking £2k or so rather than £1k. Some dealers like to secure more cash upfront,

 

[Jassyo06]

That shouldn’t be the case at all, my dealer always tells me not to put too much in, as no point


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Depends on the price of the car mate, l don't like paying large monthly payments, l paid in total £9000=£7600 deposit and paid cash for the rear camera and matrix lights

 

[Chris43]

Wow, so £2.4k in tax a year, ouch!
That is why I got out of company car scheme way back, rather pay my Monthlies on PCP, look after car and swap after 2-3 years, and always get at least my deposit back. As mentioned above set figure I am happy to pay per month, that some spend on fags or booze, and get what I like and want


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It's your money in the end mate and its all about personal choices but Id be surprised if you could find a 3yr PCP for a 30k car where the finance, RFL, insurance and maintenance is all covered for £200 per month and no upfront deposit.

 

[Jassyo06]

Cars plus how you finance/pay for it or how much discount peeps get threads, always always go the same as this one is headed. ..

 

[NevMan]

Depends on the price of the car mate, l don't like paying large monthly payments, l paid in total £9000=£7600 deposit and paid cash for the rear camera and matrix lights

Agree, should have added that fact. I pay as much deposit as I feel then makes the monthly sensible (for me), and that does vary obv. By car price, but now tend to be well into the £40k at least list.


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