Audi A3 E-tron

If your commute is 30miles each way (i.e. the best possible case of never putting fuel in the hybrid) then a 60mpg diesel (at £1.34/L) will cost you around £132/mth in fuel.

The electric car is a bit trickier to get figures for, but some websites suggest it can be as low 3p/mile which would cost you £39/mth in 'fuel'.

So the annual saving on fuel alone is probably not going to exceed ~£1,100. Keep the car for 3 years say, and you're probably only just offsetting the additional cost of the hybrid and that's comparing it to a high spec A3. Compare it to a 1.6TDI SE / Sport and the pay-off will be much longer.

A little surprised at my own figures as I had assumed the hybrid would be much better.
 
a3_phil said:
Hmm, having seen the basic spec I'm less interested in it than I was.

Bit annoyed that they've added so much in as standard as there are things in there (LED lights, MMI Nav, Audi Connect, Advanced Key) that I'm just not interested in and wouldn't use. I'd much rather they drop the basic spec and let you add the options again in the normal fashion.

I understand that the charging app requires the groundwork from the MMI Nav / Audi Connect but it's a little annoying to add in several thousand pounds of options that you may not need.

Here's hoping that future versions will simply be an engine choice alongside petrol and TDI which you can then spec as SE/Sport/S-Line and add options as required to.
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That's the way that Audi UK have chosen to market it. If you look at Audi Germany, they have chosen 3 basic specs compared to our one. I guess they believe that UK buyers wouldn't be so interested in the basic German "Attraction" model,
 
a3_phil said:
If your commute is 30miles each way (i.e. the best possible case of never putting fuel in the hybrid) then a 60mpg diesel (at £1.34/L) will cost you around £132/mth in fuel.

The electric car is a bit trickier to get figures for, but some websites suggest it can be as low 3p/mile which would cost you £39/mth in 'fuel'.

So the annual saving on fuel alone is probably not going to exceed ~£1,100. Keep the car for 3 years say, and you're probably only just offsetting the additional cost of the hybrid and that's comparing it to a high spec A3. Compare it to a 1.6TDI SE / Sport and the pay-off will be much longer.

A little surprised at my own figures as I had assumed the hybrid would be much better.
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If I wanted to work out the figures in my instance, 30 miles a day, free electricity and keeping it for 5+ years it may come close to breaking even especially if I took VED, congestion charge etc. into account, but then I would have to ask why I would buy a new car in the first place.
 
Yeah, it's not the slam-dunk I'd have thought and that's not even accounting for the inevitable petrol usage I'd have on longer / unexpected journeys.

If the price were to come in closer to the TDI pricing, then it'd make a logical three-way split of engine choices:

High mileage, long commutes, free flowing - TDI
High mileage, short commutes, stop start - Hybrid
Low mileage, short commutes, stop-start - Petrol

Still, it's early days for the technology I suppose.
 
I think this is all part of the problem at the moment. Until the EU comes up with a much more realistic way of testing mpg that takes in to account electric and hybrid cars running on a combination of some electric power and some normal engine power it is going to be impossible to get any idea of the feasibility of the e-tron until some owners can report back of several thousands of miles of use.

Just a figure for the 1.4TFSI engine alone (ignoring any electric power) but taking in to account the extra weight of the e-tron would be useful. Mind you whatever the figure is for mpg a e-tron would be a step backwards in power and handling for me personally.
 
jetron said:
That's the way that Audi UK have chosen to market it. If you look at Audi Germany, they have chosen 3 basic specs compared to our one. I guess they believe that UK buyers wouldn't be so interested in the basic German "Attraction" model,
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This is true of all the A3 models. In Germany you can purchase a much more basic A3 and then add the option you want whereas in the UK the models are aimed at the company car market which likes to have everything included in the base model rather than the need to add options.
 
Problem is that they'll never be able to summarise fuel consumption meaningfully in a single figure. It's a problem currently with cars (look at the real-world consumption of a diesel over short journeys) but it'll be immeasurably worse for hybrids.

For someone commuting within the range of the battery the mpg is basically 0 but for someone doing hundreds of miles a day, it's probably the same consumption as the petrol engine on its own. How do you summarise that information easily?

I'd imagine we'll end up with manufacturers providing online calculators for their cars where you plug in your typical usage and it gives you a range of consumption figures.
 
My take on hybrids are they are a good stop gap, possibly even the future. Certainly not suitable for everyone, but for the majority I would imagine you should see improved fuel economy and alleviate the range anxiety that electric only vehicles can leave you with.

The A3 is almost the opposite approach to the BMW i3 in terms of packaging (i.e. conforming to an existing platform rather than a ground up redesign) but I suppose the advantage of this is making less radical and more approachable to most consumers. Whether Audi or BMW (or anyone else) has the right philosophy I guess time will tell.

Personally at the moment I think the costs are too high compared to the supposed savings. £9k without subsidy is an awful lot of fuel, even with the £5k (I think) subsidy £4k will get you an awful lot of petrol (assuming a like for like 1.4 petrol). Plus the 100l of lost boot space will matter to some.

Off Topic: I still think hydrogen has potential despite the relative costs of extraction some, or all of which, can be negated by using renewables when they are generating excess or nuclear power which is actually relatively safe despite the hype when there are issues. Opinion: The problem with renewables is that the focus is on the generation rather than how to store that energy for future use. Crack the storage problem and renewables become more attractive but as it stands the cannot replace fossil fuel plants that need to be on standby to step in when demand peaks.
 
Here's my thinking.. my distance to work is 25 miles (mix of motorway and town driving). I should be able to get to work on battery alone, charge it up at work (we have electric power points for the Renault Kangoo ZE vans... need to check if I'm allowed to use them(!), though if not there are public charging points close by), and then drive home on the battery. This could mean the engine isn't getting used at all. Given the high spec I'm definitely tempted by the e-tron. I would always keep the fuel topped up, which means there's flexibility to drive it like a normal petrol car. I would hope however it would use significantly less fuel from the pumps.
 
Gordo77 said:
Here's my thinking.. my distance to work is 25 miles (mix of motorway and town driving). I should be able to get to work on battery alone, charge it up at work (we have electric power points for the Renault Kangoo ZE vans... need to check if I'm allowed to use them(!), though if not there are public charging points close by), and then drive home on the battery. This could mean the engine isn't getting used at all. Given the high spec I'm definitely tempted by the e-tron. I would always keep the fuel topped up, which means there's flexibility to drive it like a normal petrol car. I would hope however it would use significantly less fuel from the pumps.
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That's as I would imagine it working for many people. Even in the case you cannot charge up at work I would imagine it should still significantly reduce the fuel bills. Whether it offsets the purchase costs though I'm not so sure, but I'm not sure of the prices with an equivalently spec'd A3 non-e-tron.
 
Shrek5 said:
That's as I would imagine it working for many people. Even in the case you cannot charge up at work I would imagine it should still significantly reduce the fuel bills. Whether it offsets the purchase costs though I'm not so sure, but I'm not sure of the prices with an equivalently spec'd A3 non-e-tron.
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Using rough calculations based on an A3 Sportback 1.4 TSI cylinder on demand S-tronic, the cost is greater than that of an e-tron taking into account the £5k-£6k Government subsidy.
 
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jetron said:
Using rough calculations based on an A3 Sportback 1.4 TSI cylinder on demand S-tronic, the cost is greater than that of an e-tron taking into account the £5k-£6k Government subsidy.
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So if I have understood you correctly, spec for spec, you'd be better off going for the e-tron? Provided the compromised boot space wasn't an issue and you happened to want all the extras of the e-tron anyway?
 
It is really sad to see a thread like this ruined by people who clearly have there own agendas and are willing to ruin what should be a very good conversation between a variety of people for the sake of proving who has the bigger ****.

At the end of the day everyone has the own opinions, make your opinion, but there is NEVER any reason to be rude or obnoxious like certain posters are. There are two sides (at least) to every story, just because someone doesn't bend over and take your side of things doesn't make them wrong.

Act your age, not your shoe size for crying out loud.

Back to the ACTUAL question posed by the OP.

I think the etron (and similar cars) are a good idea, but before they ever take off i think a level of things need to be determined and sorted out;

* Better understanding of the technologies by all those in the motor trade, including those who maintain (and not just limited to main dealers).
* Full appreciation of lifetime costs.
* Performance/reliability/costs on par with the equivalent petrol/diesels.

I have driven a hybrid (Honda Jazz) in Norway on my last visit and it was an interesting experience, personally I am in the "there not as environmentally friendly as people claim" camp, but that clearly is a whole new "discussion"...
 
a3_phil said:
Yeah, it's not the slam-dunk I'd have thought and that's not even accounting for the inevitable petrol usage I'd have on longer / unexpected journeys.

If the price were to come in closer to the TDI pricing, then it'd make a logical three-way split of engine choices:

High mileage, long commutes, free flowing - TDI
High mileage, short commutes, stop start - Hybrid
Low mileage, short commutes, stop-start - Petrol

Still, it's early days for the technology I suppose.
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It is difficult to compare A3 Sportback models because of both the high basic e-tron spec and the Government grant applicable. However, if you were to spec an A3 Sportback Sport 2.0 TDI S tronic (closest to the e-tron spec) and add the extras/options to bring it up to the same theoretical spec as the e-tron, the e-tron would be the cheaper of the two
 
My mate got one of the free charging points at his house days before the 100% subsidy went at the end of August (it is now supposed to cover 75% of cost, up to £1000 but the same fitters are now invoicing for £1000 and happy to get paid only by the Government for the main £750), and to look at it from an electrical engineering point of view, i'm hard pushed to see how it costs more than £250 for the unit, and an hour of the sparky's time to fit it to the meter with it's own RCD and switch within the electric meter housing. Anyway, amongst the terms of him getting his free charging point is the condition that his house is now visible on a Government database of network charging points and that he must provide "reasonable access at all times to agents of the Government for the purposes of charging their electric vehicles" and may charge a "reasonable" fee for costs incurred (a small contribution to his electricity bill I imagine that to mean). Apparently they cannot oblige him to take his own car off the drive for them to park there, nor can they enforce this condition when his car is being charged or charge their car with his charging point without his knowledge (presumably so they cannot just help themselves to his electricity without recompense). Terms like "reasonable" do make it seem pretty unenforceable when they refuse to pay you a £20 charging fee you consider to be "reasonable".

Anyway - if you're getting a free charging point, you just might not be allowed to say no to your local councillor or police chief in the future when they knock on your door and ask to borrow a drop of electricity.
 
jetron said:
I ordered mine from Camberley Audi as they provided excellent service when I bought my previous vehicle. Yes, there are other dealerships or "e-tron Centres" where you could purchase one, a total of 34 in the UK, but the sales executive with whom I am dealing has provided me with all the feedback requested to-date.

I chose the e-tron because the local VW dealership couldn't provide me with any information on the GTE which shares most of the e-tron's systems. I was invited by Audi for a day out at Ragley Hall in Warwickshire, which enabled me to drive the vehicle, albeit a pre-production LHD model, as well as ask questions to the team of e-tron specialists, some of which had been involved with the design of the e-tron concept.

As far as comparisons go, I could only compare it against an A3 1.8 TFSI or the BMW i3 and in both cases it was my preferred vehicle.

With a 30 mile range, if meets my daily commute requirement as well as proividing the range for longer weekend driving. There are more and more charging stations springing up these days, so much so, that one developing problem is the management of a collection of charge cards. This will not be much of an issue for myself as I plan to charge at home for the most part. I availed of the Government grant to have a charging station installed when I had my solar panels installed and plan to charge using solar PV as much as possible.

With the current long lead time in production, rather than take delivery at the end of January or in February, I have asked for delivery on a "15" plate. This may help when it comes to resale, but as I plan to hold onto it for 5+ years, this may not be an issue. Let me find out what the build week is first of all.

For those interested, the main brochure is now available from the Audi UK website. I had been working with the Audi.de brochures for a while, but there are subtle differences in build option availability.

As far as protecting the environment and conserving natural resources are concerned, I believe that Audi is playing its part as much as if not more so than many manufacturers. You can view Audi's side of the debate here http://www.audi.com/corporate/en/corporate-responsibility/we-live-responsibility/environment.html
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A few images of one of the ten or so e-trons at Ragley Hall that day:











 
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I drove Camberley Audi's A3 e-ton demonstrator last weekend and was impressed. Starting the car and pulling away (with no engine noise) seems pretty weird. Can't really tell which mode its in most of the time, particularly at speed as there is a fair amount of tyre noise.

On a short 15 mile trip on mixture of urban and dual carriageways and trying all four hybrid modes I got just over 60mpg (using I think about 5 miles of its electric range in the process).

Their car had the (non-perforated as its based on a Sport) alcantara trim which I liked, though not sure how practical it is.

I'd like a longer journey to see how much regen you get from normal driving and getter a better feel for the actual mpg
 
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Nice to see someone else having a drive of the new e-tron. Camberley Audi are pretty busy at the moment as they are the only e-tron dealership in their group which includes Basingstoke and Guildford. There was an apparent charging problem when I took the demonstrator out for a couple of hours on Wednesday, which led me to have to drive most of the time on petrol only, providing occasional boost with electric once sufficient charge had been gleaned. I'll get another spin next week and try to investigate some more of the MMI options and how they affect the driving experience.
 
In the right spec, about the same cost as the S3 I would like. (taking discount and grants into account)

I've asked for a test drive. I quite like the idea of low running costs. Suppose it depends what GFV or finance incentives that are available.
 
coddy85 said:
Suppose it depends what GFV or finance incentives that are available.
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@jetron are you getting your's on a PCP? If so would you mind sharing any of the details?

I will ask Camberley to price one up for me to see how it compares to the Sportback I have.
 
@dts439 Sorry to say I am paying cash so can't be of much assistance on this one. By all means ask them to price one up, they certainly have the resources...
 
audi upgrades
It's great to hear some initial real world impressions on the e-tron. This is definitely something I would seriously consider in a few years. I'd love to hear any future updates on your test drives if possible to get an idea of mpg/electric range, 60+mpg for a first drive is not too bad.
 
The 60+ mpg from my run is hard to judge how realistic it is as I used a number of 'free' miles from the battery. The fact they claim a possible range of 582 miles (and only 30 of those could be electric only) gives me some hope that they expect to harvest a non trivial amount of energy from regeneration. The fuel tank is reduced to 9 gallons (40 litres).

That being said I was pleased to see 62.5 mpg on the readout at the end, it had hovered around the low 40s for the first half of the journey. In the final 2/3 miles of stop/start traffic the mpg figure stayed high, so I'm guessing its using the battery a fair bit in those conditions (it was in Auto hybrid mode at that point).
 
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@jetron , how much are you paying? If that's not too nosey?

@dts439
1. How did you find it performance wise? Did it feel like 200HP?
2. How many miles total had you done and what was your mpg?
3. Would you seriously consider it over a petrol/diesel?
 
coddy85 said:
@dts439
1. How did you find it performance wise? Did it feel like 200HP?
2. How many miles total had you done and what was your mpg?
3. Would you seriously consider it over a petrol/diesel?
Click to expand...

1. No, though I did not give it the full beans
2. Around 18 miles and 62.5mpg. Car had only done about 200 miles in total.
3. Yes

I just need to understand a bit more about the economy on longer journeys. I'm attracted by the lower BIK and the ability to do short and long journeys. As a technical tour de force its very impressive. My only concern is the cost. I'm sure hybrids will be getting much more common over the next 2-3 years.
 
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Out of Interest there is an article about taking an A3-etron to Morocco in the free Audi magazine, Winter 2014 edition, which came in the post today.

With the A3 e-tron they say that it has a range of 584 miles using combined driving which with a 40 litre (8.79 gal) tank gives around 66mpg. A lot less than the often quoted 176.6 mpg. They also say that, providing the battery has been charged from a sustainable electricity source, the car creates no CO2 emissions during the 31 miles of electric driving.

There are also some more facts about the fuel consumption tests including a fairly detailed explanation of how normal fuel consumption figures are obtained in the laboratory. The Urban Cycle consists of covering the equivalent of 2.5 miles at a maximum speed of 31mph but with an average of 12 mph. The Extra Urban Cycle test is conducted straight after the Urban and the car covers the equivalent of 4.3 miles with a maximum speed of 75 mph and an average of 39 mph. The Combined Cycle is an average of the Urban and the Extra Urban figures.
 
h5djr said:
With the A3 e-tron they say that it has a range of 584 miles using combined driving which with a 40 litre (8.79 gal) tank gives around 66mpg. A lot less than the often quoted 176.6 mpg.
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If it really does 66 mpg in average use I'll be getting one. A 580 mile range figure was quoted in the early UK promotional material, and also another one where they quoted 31.1 miles electric + 553 petrol
 
dts439 said:
If it really does 66 mpg in average use I'll be getting one. A 580 mile range figure was quoted in the early UK promotional material, and also another one where they quoted 31.1 miles electric + 553 petrol
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Won't it be a bit tame compared with your existing 184 quattro or is mpg more important to you.
 
h5djr said:
Won't it be a bit tame compared with your existing 184 quattro or is mpg more important to you.
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My 184q did seem a bit more spritely than the e-tron (both not run=in though). However, the e-tron would be to replace our 4 year old A1 1.4 122 TFSI so it did seem a bit quicker than that.

If the e-tron had been available in the summer then I might have been tempted to get one. But I wanted to change my A4 and lack of info and 'deals' on an e-tron meant the 184q was a better fit (and I could go silly with the options list). I was sorely tempted by an S3 but part of the criteria was being able to easily do 500+ miles on one tank...

So we may end up with his and hers A3s
 
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Now that would make a lot more sense. Part of the problem with the e-tron for me would be that whilst it does have 204PS available when the electric motor and the 1.4 is available it only has 150 available when the battery is flat after around 31 miles. Before I bought my current 184q I tried both an A3 and Golf 150 and found them both a bit tame compared with my then existing 170. As I definitely wanted an s-tronic I went for the 184q and have certainly not regretted my choice. The other problem is that I now like the quattro so much I don't think I would like to go back to front-wheel drive. Funny how the cars I buy seem to like get more and more expensive as time goes by!!
 
coddy85 said:
@jetron , how much are you paying? If that's not too nosey?

@dts439
1. How did you find it performance wise? Did it feel like 200HP?
2. How many miles total had you done and what was your mpg?
3. Would you seriously consider it over a petrol/diesel?
Click to expand...
@coddy85 I'm paying list price but benefiting from the Governments £5k grant so approximately £33k including options.
 
h5djr said:
Now that would make a lot more sense. Part of the problem with the e-tron for me would be that whilst it does have 204PS available when the electric motor and the 1.4 is available it only has 150 available when the battery is flat after around 31 miles.
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As I understand it though, it will charge the battery as you go as well (recuperation during braking, etc.), so the battery level will fluctuate as you pootle about rather than drain to zero after 31 miles (unless you're hammering around a track without braking for 31 miles!).

It will be interesting to get a "real world" battery charge usage profile for a journey of a few hundred miles. Do you think Camberley will mind if I took their eTron for an extended test drive :)
 
With the recent arrival of demonstrators on these shores and that Camberley Audi serves the other two dealerships in the Lookers group, i.e. Basingstoke and Guildford, I think you would be lucky to get more than 2 hours max at this point. They are busy with requests for test drives and I consider myself lucky to get another test drive under the circumstances. However, you can but try. If you don't ask you'll never know.

As far as your "real world" battery charge usage profile is concerned, every journey would give a different profile depending on type of road, average speed, temperature etc. The best you could probably do is look at a profile for ev mode and another profile for petrol only, the latter could then be compared with other petrol/diesel profiles.

In the long run, it isn't just about economy. I like the car as much for its clever integration of technology as I do for its running costs. Yes, the majority of the miles I will be enjoying will be using free energy but if I wanted just that I would stick to my bicycle.
 
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