Audi A6 C7 CNHA - Smoke Issue

[Glen Douglas]

Hi all,

Looking for a bit of advice on a tricky situation on a 2015 Audi C7 A6 Ultra with a CNHA engine. I'm an independent garage, the customer who is also a friend has brought his Audi A6 into myself bit of a back story on this car.

The car's DPF failed 3 months into ownership for the customer (previous owner likely doing short drives) customer took the car to an Audi specialist in the Glasgow area who suggested the cheapest option would be to remove the DPF/hollow the DPF out and map the EGR out which the customer done (Not my suggestion obviously) however understandable given Audi were looking for the best part of £4,000+ to replace the system. Car was mapped using a map by a Celtic Tuning vendor and customer reported that the difference in performance was night and day .. for around 3 months, customer reported that the performance of the engine slowly got worse to the point now it's been sitting in my garage essentially unable to drive.

The problem is we can't work out what is causing the problem, I've had the DPF and EGR off the car as they are one unit to inspect, there was massive amounts of carbon buildup on the EGR cooler however I noticed that the company in question have essentially custom made a blanking plate over the EGR to prevent flow through the cooler hence is should essentially just be free flowing so this ruled the EGR/DPF out as a problem.

Essentially the symptoms are, thick black smoke on idle to the point we have to turn the car off after 20 seconds as the garage is filled with the stuff, extremely rough idle, almost little to no power, we are also getting some diesel cracking/knocking.

The puzzling bit is the car had these exact same symptoms prior to the Celtic tuning map and the map seemed to resolve the issue so I'm left wondering if there is anything else we can check?

Is it possible that the car's ECU has reverted back to a factory map setting automatically? I know the new RS models are known for this but I wasn't sure if this was the case for the 15 plate non RS models.

I have spoken to another Audi specialist who has advised to check the inter cooler for damage but again I'm not confident this will resolve the issue.

As far as codes go - We are pulling up EGR excessive flow & P0671 - Cylinder 1 Glow Plug circuit (Plugs were changed 3 months ago)

Cheers

 

[EXSpartan36]

Thick black smoke is normally caused by too much fuel or Not enough air so I would be looking at the intake system for any cracks or splits in pipes especially around the intercooler. There is a really handy tool that pumps smoke into the intake which shows leaks really easily. If that is all ok you can test the injection quantity deviation of the fuel injectors with VCDS which should give you an idea if you have a faulty injector.

 

[bobby singh]

Reset the DPF soot adaption - maybe the DPF off in the file hasn't been done correctly.
If the smoke stops then you know.
However, DPF regen smoke is normally white ish (fuel)
Black smoke could be bad injector especially on idle as massive boost leak shouldn't matter on tick over.

 

[luci]

Hi Glen,

I have a similar issue with my audi a4 b8.5 quattro stronic 2.0 tdi 190 cnha
the black smoke that is giving me headaches for the last months
initially after purchase, at around 100.000km the adblue got errors and also started eating coolant. rather than fixing it, i chose to disable the adblue. so i did a dpf off (both filters properly emptied) adblue off stage 1 software with my car. after this i got white smoke because of the coolant, i figured the problem was with the cylinder head gasket, which is common for this engine, so i changed it. after this all was ok for a while, no smoke. then it all started. this black smoke i cannot get rid off. mostly when i accelerate. on tests it says engine does not have enough boost so the smoke is unburned diesel.egr was on at this moment and also stated malfunctioning so i did an egr off as well. no change.
i checked all the pipes to see if there is no pressure lost, nope. i replaced the injectors, nothing. new admission gallery, still nothing. washed the intercooler, no change.

if you figure out what's wrong let me know as i am still looking for a solution.
as far as i know i am not the only one with this issue, but this is the only thread i found related.

possible things for you to check: admission gallery buildup; the upper intercooler properly cleaned and washed; being shure that the dpf off was done properly meaning full removal of the filters; egr valve stuck. and of course egr buildup.

 

[bobby singh]

Hi Glen,

I have a similar issue with my audi a4 b8.5 quattro stronic 2.0 tdi 190 cnha
the black smoke that is giving me headaches for the last months
initially after purchase, at around 100.000km the adblue got errors and also started eating coolant. rather than fixing it, i chose to disable the adblue. so i did a dpf off (both filters properly emptied) adblue off stage 1 software with my car. after this i got white smoke because of the coolant, i figured the problem was with the cylinder head gasket, which is common for this engine, so i changed it. after this all was ok for a while, no smoke. then it all started. this black smoke i cannot get rid off. mostly when i accelerate. on tests it says engine does not have enough boost so the smoke is unburned diesel.egr was on at this moment and also stated malfunctioning so i did an egr off as well. no change.
i checked all the pipes to see if there is no pressure lost, nope. i replaced the injectors, nothing. new admission gallery, still nothing. washed the intercooler, no change.

if you figure out what's wrong let me know as i am still looking for a solution.
as far as i know i am not the only one with this issue, but this is the only thread i found related.

possible things for you to check: admission gallery buildup; the upper intercooler properly cleaned and washed; being shure that the dpf off was done properly meaning full removal of the filters; egr valve stuck. and of course egr buildup.

Maybe the tune you have is smokey? try a map with just egr and dpf off.
Also, block the egr with a plate

 

[luci]

Egr is still mecanically closed after a 5000km inspection as seen in the picture... the remap was remade it is now close to stock... i would bet on a generic issue with something as i am not the only one affected, there are other cases of this smoke issue with the cnha engine. The mechanics still cannot figure out the problem.

 

[Kona]

Hello, have you got any solutions for this problem? I have similar problems with my A4 b8.5 quattro CNHA.

DPF got full and I decided to empty it mechanically (=smash the ceramic inside). Then one company did the remapping which gave +30 horsepower, egr off and dpf off. Everything went great for 2-3 months and then I got the same problems than Glen (black smoke and not going well at higher turbo boosts).

The same company made the new map again and same thing happened. Went well for 2-3 months and then the same problems.

Now we have changed back to original map (only dpf off) and it goes now a little better but still smoke. Changed also the turbo boost pressure indicator but it was not the solution.

I would appreciate for any help.

 

[bobby singh]

Assuming the DPF off solution is actually good then I would check the injectors or for boost leaks.
I have a 2.0CR in at the moment which is smoking with lambda 1.1 which indicated injector issues - I pulled them out and one had a poor injector seal which has ruined the injector over time.

Thanks

 

[Kona]

Thanks for the answer. Boost leaks and intake air leaks are checked and nothing was found. Also injectors are measured and they are working with no problems.

Cant think what is causing this but could it be the VNT turbocharger or the throttle or...?

 

[bobby singh]

You can't measure injectors - if they spray angle has changed then this will cause smoking and poor atomisation

 

[ianfinnie1985]

Thanks for the answer. Boost leaks and intake air leaks are checked and nothing was found. Also injectors are measured and they are working with no problems.

Cant think what is causing this but could it be the VNT turbocharger or the throttle or...?

Hi did u get to the bottom of the problem with ur car,mine is doing the exact same and thinking about changing turbo but it’s a big job!

 

[Kona]

Hi did u get to the bottom of the problem with ur car,mine is doing the exact same and thinking about changing turbo but it’s a big job!

Unfortunately couldn´t find the reason after many inspections. Maybe it´s the turbo, but can´t say for sure.

 

[ianfinnie1985]

Unfortunately couldn´t find the reason after many inspections. Maybe it´s the turbo, but can´t say for sure.

Ok thanks,a think it is the turbo on mine tbh but an expensive repair for it not to be tht

 

[bobby singh]

Could be dpf breaking up and the regen is causing the smoke

 

[abdus sami]

Hello all,

Has anyone managed to find what the problem is? I am having the same problem. I need help ASAP as I've been spending a stupid amount on the car.

I Have the exact same problem as what Glen Douglas had.

is there no way in which we can contact glen and see if he managed to resolve the situation?

 

[orion1210]

I have the same problem. I hear the turbo slightly providing I don’t press the accelerator more than halfwayish, anymore and the power drops off and it belches black smoke. No codes.
As the boost sensor is before the charge cooler/inlet manifold assembly I wondered if that being blocked causes a false apparent target boost pressure so the ECU backs the turbo off. Currently plucking up the courage to pull the manifold off to clean the charge cooler matrix out. Also wondered about pulling the vacuum line off the turbo actuator as an experiment but not sure if that’s asking for trouble or not?

 

[osko]

These engines have two EGR valves! Low pressure and high. Low pressure is past the DPF, under turbo.---> Unplug the connector on actuator, and see if the smoke changes to white. If white. The manifold/coolant cooled intercooler is blocked. The high pressure EGR is mounted (under throttle body) on this manifold, so it needs to taken off, to clean it off as well.

 

[orion1210]

So I’ve finally taken the plunge and ripped into this. My charge cooler matrix is completely blocked with soot about 5mm thick along with the rest of the air path from the low pressure EGR. The EGRs are meant to be mapped closed, it looks like the high pressure hasn’t opened for sometime. Aiming to get the low pressure out tonight for a look and remove and clean the charge cooler.
I need to figure a way to blank the low pressure EGR outlet hose, might jam something in it that can’t make its way to the turbo.
Everything is a pain to get to on this engine!!

 

[orion1210]

So I’ve finally taken the plunge and ripped into this. My charge cooler matrix is completely blocked with soot about 5mm thick along with the rest of the air path from the low pressure EGR. The EGRs are meant to be mapped closed, it looks like the high pressure hasn’t opened for sometime. Aiming to get the low pressure out tonight for a look and remove and clean the charge cooler.
I need to figure a way to blank the low pressure EGR outlet hose, might jam something in it that can’t make its way to the turbo.
Everything is a pain to get to on this engine!!

So I gave up trying to get to the LP EGR, I’m hoping that the EGR cooler is sufficiently blocked that it won’t block the charge cooler back up so quickly.
Following cleaning the charge cooler it was still belching black smoke in boost but the power was restored. The following day it was like a new car, normal power and delivery, no smoke at all and better MPG. I’ll be interested to see how long it lasts but if it’s more than a year I can handle ripping it all apart again for another clean.

 

[luckas13]

Hi all,

Looking for a bit of advice on a tricky situation on a 2015 Audi C7 A6 Ultra with a CNHA engine. I'm an independent garage, the customer who is also a friend has brought his Audi A6 into myself bit of a back story on this car.

The car's DPF failed 3 months into ownership for the customer (previous owner likely doing short drives) customer took the car to an Audi specialist in the Glasgow area who suggested the cheapest option would be to remove the DPF/hollow the DPF out and map the EGR out which the customer done (Not my suggestion obviously) however understandable given Audi were looking for the best part of £4,000+ to replace the system. Car was mapped using a map by a Celtic Tuning vendor and customer reported that the difference in performance was night and day .. for around 3 months, customer reported that the performance of the engine slowly got worse to the point now it's been sitting in my garage essentially unable to drive.

The problem is we can't work out what is causing the problem, I've had the DPF and EGR off the car as they are one unit to inspect, there was massive amounts of carbon buildup on the EGR cooler however I noticed that the company in question have essentially custom made a blanking plate over the EGR to prevent flow through the cooler hence is should essentially just be free flowing so this ruled the EGR/DPF out as a problem.

Essentially the symptoms are, thick black smoke on idle to the point we have to turn the car off after 20 seconds as the garage is filled with the stuff, extremely rough idle, almost little to no power, we are also getting some diesel cracking/knocking.

The puzzling bit is the car had these exact same symptoms prior to the Celtic tuning map and the map seemed to resolve the issue so I'm left wondering if there is anything else we can check?

Is it possible that the car's ECU has reverted back to a factory map setting automatically? I know the new RS models are known for this but I wasn't sure if this was the case for the 15 plate non RS models.

I have spoken to another Audi specialist who has advised to check the inter cooler for damage but again I'm not confident this will resolve the issue.

As far as codes go - We are pulling up EGR excessive flow & P0671 - Cylinder 1 Glow Plug circuit (Plugs were changed 3 months ago)

Cheers

Hello, i have same problem with a Audi A6 ultra 2.0 ,190hp CNHA. The Dpf is now off ,6 months the engine just work fine,now i have problem with black smoke an at full trotle P0402 ,egr excesive flow!!Both Egr are brand new!!!Egr cooler cleane! Same problem!!
Any ideea?

 

[danijelP7b]

Hi to all heee have u still problems on black smoke issue on accelerate,I have same problem on my A6 2.0 TDI CNHA engine from 2014 year had problem before that i have also remove DPF and have fine after that 6 months start to have smoke issue ,and also have long crank issue also but i know that problem for long crank is on my old version of VVT valve on camshaft adjuster that i have to replace also.And one more problem i have is that idle rough some times