B8.5 gearbox problems?

[Dippy]

Over the last year of taking interest in the B8/B8.5 cars leading up to the purchase of my own S5 I got the impression that (a) it was some of the first cars (MY10 and earlier) that had s-tronic gearbox issues and (b) a lot of the issues were related to the mechatronic unit.

Although I can't get my car tuned yet, it is still my expectation to do so, but I still have a worry about risking my warranty for gearbox issues. So I'd like to ask if anyone knows about any cases of B8.5 gearbox problems?

 

[Locoblade]

From what I've read there has been the odd one with the B8.5, but its evidently an updated box compared to the B8 and the number of problems seem to be far less than on the first generation with the caveat that obviously all the B8.5s are newer and so generally lower mileage so the figures could be somewhat skewed.

 

[scotty76]

Was wondering about this myself. I mean there must be a fair few ancient DSG VWs by now. What has happened to them?

 

[razza1]

From my research I did, the 8.5's were just as unlucky. Audi did improve the mech unit, replacing some of the plastic housing of it with metal to provide better heat protection for parts of the circuitry. It's surrounded by hot oil so a crap design and should be sited further from the hot parts but hey ho....
When I got mine replaced they out the newer unit back in.
Seen reports of 2014 boxes going after 4.5k miles!!!

 

[Dippy]

Thanks @razza1. If you remember where you saw such reports I'd love to get a link and read up myself.

 

[razza1]

Just google Audi stronic error or malfunction, grab yourself a big pot of tea and settle in for the night

 

[razza1]

Most issues you'll come across will be B8's, but I definitely recall seeing face lifts with issues.
I don't have the link as had enough of crying myself to sleep lol reading through the stories...

 

[scotty76]

Most issues you'll come across will be B8's, but I definitely recall seeing face lifts with issues.
I don't have the link as had enough of crying myself to sleep lol reading through the stories...

Yeah but you know the B7 2.0T FSI would have killed itself due to a blocked oil pick up pipe by now, which would have also been expensive. ;-) That's the impression I get whenever I go back to the B7 board. I feel like I probably had a lucky escape but will never know. Car was fine when sold.

 

[Dippy]

When my B5 S4 was on order all those years ago and I started reading about turbo failures I did indeed start to regret my decision. However then when I looked more closely I learned that Audi had made a modification to the turbo oil lines, that some owners with turbo failures were admitting to 'bad habits' (full boost when cold, no cool-down or turbo-timer etc.), and indeed a lot of cases were in the US where the free oil changes were using cheap mineral or semi-synth oil.

So that is why I have a different mind-set now. @razza1 , I have indeed done exactly what you suggested and indeed most of what I found were B8 gearbox problems. I also think I saw some for B8.5s but I can't be sure, and that's why I posted this. Along with the mechatronic problems (which I would hope have been designed out by now) I think that not changing the oil at the right time can contribute to problems. If there are any cases of B8.5 gearbox failures then that's one piece of information I'd be keen to find out.

It is also interesting that Audi plans to use a different gearbox for the B9 S4. Does this imply that they recognise that the s-tronic is flawed?

 

[razza1]

Given Audi of America extended the warranty on the box to 10yrs or 100,000 miles, I think they know it's an issue. Too many problems with it. If you look across Q5 boards there's also loads of examples of those failing.

 

[Locoblade]

Looks like they're using the 8 speed ZF Auto in the new S4, that could simply be because the increased torque (500Nm against 440Nm) is higher than the STronic rating.

I was intending to get extended warranty primarily because of DSG concerns and the fact that it was suggested only Audi could work on them (meaning a ~£4-5k for Mechatronics and a £10k replacement bill, no ifs or buts), but it seems there are now gearbox specialists out there that can fix them so although wouldnt be cheap, won't be Audi eye watering prices and so I'm marginally less concerned about it.

 

[Dippy]

@razza1 , the Q5 has been around as long as the B8 so again are those failures of just the early models or the later ones too?

@Locoblade , the OB5 has a max torque rating of 550Nm, but that is at 9000rpm IIRC, and I believe that it should mean that it can take higher torque at lower revs?

But I do agree with you. Having saved £9K on the purchase of my S4 I guess I could stomach having to pay even £10K for a new box. However if I did have to pay because Audi wouldn't honour a warranty claim due to an engine tune, indeed I would go to an independent specialist and expect to pay a lot less.

 

[razza1]

So you know, mech unit is £2.6k and the box (which doesn't come without the mech unit) is £8.5k, so although independent will cost less labour wise it's still a big sum as the parts themselves are expensive.
There are repairers though which can fix issues where Audi would have swapped the box out, with costs ranging from £1500 to £4.7k for a full rebuild
Not sure on age of Q5 failures tbh

 

[Dippy]

Thanks, that's good to know.

 

[benjie]

Just to say, as with any 'common' problem on a car, a forum gives a skewed view. I have an early S4, 7 1/2 years old, on the original mech unit 81k on the dash. Car had the circuit board recall done at 60k (DSG oil getting into it) No problems that I have noticed. I have got a warranty though, it's just common sense.

 

[razza1]

I'm just bitter lol and one of the unfortunate ones

 

[benjie]

I'm just bitter lol and one of the unfortunate ones

LOL, there's still time for me!

 

[sixpot]

I'm about to go through a mechatronic change on my B8, FASH 52k and 'box oil changed at 40k. I have priced a brand new unit up through TPS, and including the strainer, gasket and 7 litres of transmission oil, it comes to just under 2.5k trade.I have yet to approach the warranty company to see which way they want to go about doing it, but I doubt they will cough-up Audi prices!

 

[razza1]

My warranty company paid up, but I got fitted at an Indy. Total cost was about £3.6k from memory and I got £2.8 back from the warranty. I then sold my old mech unit for £400 as turns out not the issue...
If at Audi it would have cost £4.5k I think fitted.
Depends on the labour rates and excess your warranty covers

 

[Skard]

What is your gearbox fault, sixpot?

I went through my third party warranty for my gearbox PCB change at Audi, they paid but only £45+ VAT labour so I had to pay the difference

 

[sixpot]

Very rough downshifts into gears 2 and 1 especially when transition from cold to warm oil takes place (is a little bit better once warmed up)
Jumped out of reverse a couple of times (again on the transition) never done it when oil up to temp.
Changes up through the gears too soon sometimes i.e gets into 7th gear at 30 mph (nearly stalling) again will only do this when oil temp cold. and will not repeat until another cold start (and even then it's intermittent)
Notably rougher changes when 'box has been in sport, then put back into auto.
Revs hunt at very slow speeds in 1st gear when oil is very hot (stop/start traffic on an incline for example) and there is a delay selecting first gear (which is normally felt with a clunk and the car lurches forward unless you have the brake firmly pressed)
No faults logged in VCDS, and no warning lights lit up either. I did notice that when a particular rough change occurs changing down to second and 1st gears the gear display that usually shows d1,d2,d3 etc just shows d for a second as if it doesn't know what gear it is supposed to be in.

I have noticed things are getting progressively worse, and it is quite embarrasing when coming to a stop, and there is a delay in the car deciding to select first gear, and when it does it lurches forward with a clunk!

 

[Skard]

That's bad mate, it will be ruining your ownership of a great car.
I hope the warranty firm is ok about it.
Audi charged five hours to remove, repair and refit the mechatronics so hopefully your labour costs are covered at indy rates at least.

I have slightly rough changes in S, mainly 2-3-4, but not always. I have to see how it progresses.
Can you give an update when the work is done?
Good luck

 

[razza1]

Hopefully it's just your mech, I'm needing a gearbox rebuild now (much cheaper than the £10k Audi wanted for a new box) as i get hard downshifts 4 to 3, bangs into reverse sometimes and loses torque, and when coming to a stop in traffic it seems to struggle with getting into first and staying there. You can feel the transmission struggle/vibrate and then throws up gearbox errors on the dash and limp mode. Clutch packs I believe...

 

[scotty76]

Who does rebuilds on these @razza1 ? Worth knowing for future.

 

[razza1]

3D transmissions in Reading. Did another S4 last year after Audi told them it needed a new £10k box. I'll let you know how it goes, it's booked in for Weds and they need it for 5 days!!!

 

[Dippy]

Great to know, and local for me too!

 

[Scott.T]

Such a shame to read this as for some (including myself) it can ruin a great car or at least scare the jeepers out of you if you don't have a good warranty.
As I have mentioned to some, if I made a bad clunk/thud gear change in a manual box in the same way the s-tronic does occasionally I would be apologising to any passengers on-board.
I don't think I had a mech unit issue it's just what they do, occasionally, especially in Dynamic mode.
Should someone who has shelled out £45k on a purchase really be expected to tolerate that ?

It has also ruined any future expectations I had of jumping in an RS3 in a few years time.

 

[razza1]

I certainly would go manual on any future purchase as would be wondering if I'm sat on a time bomb.
Audi need to sort their **** out really, sloppy auto boxes / CVT God help those poor souls..., multitronic and the flashing display of doom, 2.0T B7 issues, 2.0T B8 engine rebuilds, mechtronic failures....from a premium brand it's a poor show.
Has it put me off audis, no, as when they're good they're great, but no chance in hell would I go without a warranty now.

 

[razza1]

So my clutches are burnt out and the warranty won't cover them, £2,400 to replace and rebuild

 

[Skard]

Nightmare. Did it start with just rough gear changes?

To be honest I haven't clicked with my S4 and always feel like their is a £2k+ bill waiting to appear.

 

[Scott.T]

So my clutches are burnt out and the warranty won't cover them, £2,400 to replace and rebuild

Not good mate.
I thought the clutches were covered in these as they are supposed to last the life of the car.
I know warranty firms don't normally cover clutches, so are you sure they haven't just given you their default response as these are not normal clutches.

 

[razza1]

Yeah, but lumpy and reverse lost torque some times. Then it really banged dropping down gears.
Then limp mode and actuator 1 and 2 errors came up alternatively but cleared when engine turned off and on again.
Replaced mech unit but made no difference.
Audi were saying it was the selector levers in the box hitting resistance and erroring, and non serviceable. Tried to get me to pay up to £12k for a new box...!!

 

[Skard]

I bet they did.

As much as a kick in the teeth it is, I hope it solves it for you and gives closure on the issue

 

[razza1]

Not good mate.
I thought the clutches were covered in these as they are supposed to last the life of the car.
I know warranty firms don't normally cover clutches, so are you sure they haven't just given you their default response as these are not normal clutches.

They cover the clutches but only for mechanical failure, not for wear and tear and they have a specific clause on burnt out clutches, inc auto boxes. After a lot of research last night it seems that's the case with all 3rd warranties and even with most dealership warranties

Just have to take comfort that I have pretty much a new box for £2,400 now as the mech unit was replaced under the warranty, and the excess I had to pay was pretty much covered by the sale of my old mech unit, and will now have new clutches.

Apparently the advice at Audi is to replace the clutches at the same time as the mech unit. Not sure how much money that would have saved me doing it together....

 

[razza1]

I bet they did.

As much as a kick in the teeth it is, I hope it solves it for you and gives closure on the issue

I hope so, been ongoing since Nov last year, and been seriously stressing me out, just hope I can see past it now and enjoy the car when I get it back and relax a little

 

[Skard]

Fingers crossed for you mate, post an update when you can.

 

[razza1]

Should get it back Tuesday, so fingers crossed. My neighbour of 8 years works for them so should be looked after.

 

[skiptowncat]

Mine is still clunking at slow speeds in traffic.

I can get it to clunk on demand, just set off and release the accelerator as it changes into second. It will select the gear straight away followed by a clunk and lurch as the clutch engages

 

[discostu49]

Just found this thread and have a 2012 s4 b8.5 the car is sitting on 71k i was looking through the service book and noticed its never had the oil done on the s tronic at 38k and neither has the haldex/diff. .. car feels fine gear change is so smooth you would not know it's changed unless you have looked at it. There is no whine from the diff either i inly get a slight shudder when have the car on full lock. The car has been serviced at audi last 3 times and they never done the jobs as they were additional jobs out with the service the car got and they never suggested ....So I have it booked in for the 9th with a specialist but reading all this has given me a fright

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

 

[Dippy]

I was a bit surprised to see my old thread resurrected.

Certainly its not good that the service was missed but if the 'box feels good then you might be OK. Make sure that the oil filter is changed too.
FYI your car does not have Haldex (as used on the A3 platform), but has a Crown centre diff based on Torsen. I'm not sure that the centre diff oil really needs changing, but if you have the sports rear diff its a good idea to have that oil changed.