b8.5 s4 vs mk7 golf r vs s3 8v

b8.5 s4 vs mk7 golf r vs s3 8v

  • s3 8v

    Votes: 1 25.0%
  • mk7 r

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • b8.5 s4

    Votes: 3 75.0%

  • Total voters
    4

Zer0

New Member
I know this question has been asked many times but now the b8.5 s4's, golf 7r's and s3 8v's have aged a little more and I'm hoping someone can help me decide.

I just can't decide. They are all pretty much in the same price range.
I love the looks of the b8.5 s4
Love the drive of the golf 7r
and S3 is a bit of both but not enough of either.

I think the s4 suits my age more than the other two. But the fear that the transmission failing and that it can cost as much is the car is nuts. Also having trouble understanding is it better to go for 2013 or 2014 with the crec engine.
what are the common issues of the b8.5? I know the b8 had many but I'm not too sure on the b8.5 as most places say its bulletproof.
I do want something quick off the lights and that feels light on its feet. All whilst having fun and sticking to the speed limits of course :)

I rather the golf and s3 but not sure it suits my age. Since it will probably be cheaper to run overall. But the looks of the s4 are something else.

I don't know I cant decide if my life depended on it. Someone help!

No matter which one I go for I will be looking to have it remapped.
 
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V6_Man

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personally I think the dual clutch suits these cars better than a manual. I've had my fair share of manuals and dsg is soo much more fun, yes it doesn't require much skill but the fun is there.

CRECs are 64plate onwards. Manuals were B8 and you won’t find one in B8.5.

Every manufacturer and their cars will develop issues and there are hardly any engines which are bullet proof! Having said that, if a car has been maintained / serviced at regular intervals including DSG service then you should be good.

Re: 7R vs S3, these are totally different cars compared to S4 - even S3 and R are different. In the end, it all comes down to personal choice / preference and neither of the two are problem free (not trying to be negative but just highlighting a few misconceptions ).

A DSG repair can leave a dent in your pocket worth £2.5k so, yes it can be an expensive fix however, very few B8.5s have reported such issues or at least not on the forums. One of the common problems can be high oil consumption and a new PCV and thermo change usually fixes it. Some CRECs (tuned though) have reported supercharger clutch failure, which from memory can be £500-£600 to fix however, there are not many which have. Apart from that, it is all down to luck.

Oh, and I don’t buy the manual = drivers car argument. The pleasure you get from the flappy pedals on a DSG (once you’ve mastered it) stick shift is nothing in comparison


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Zer0

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CRECs are 64plate onwards. Manuals were B8 and you won’t find one in B8.5.

Every manufacturer and their cars will develop issues and there are hardly any engines which are bullet proof! Having said that, if a car has been maintained / serviced at regular intervals including DSG service then you should be good.

Re: 7R vs S3, these are totally different cars compared to S4 - even S3 and R are different. In the end, it all comes down to personal choice / preference and neither of the two are problem free (not trying to be negative but just highlighting a few misconceptions ).

A DSG repair can leave a dent in your pocket worth £2.5k so, yes it can be an expensive fix however, very few B8.5s have reported such issues or at least not on the forums. Some common problems can be high oil consumption and a new PCV and thermo change usually fixes it. Some CRECs have reported supercharger clutch failure (tuned though), which from memory can be £500-£600 to fix however, there are not many which have. Apart from that, it is all down to luck.

Oh, and I don’t buy the manual = drivers car argument. The pleasure you get from the flappy pedals on a DSG (once you’ve mastered it) stick shift is nothing in comparison


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There’s also a difference between tuneability between the crec and pre crec b8.5 right?
Right now I’ve got 3 cars that I could buy all pretty much at the same price.
S4 crec 64 plate
S4 62 plate
Golf r 64 plate.
 

NHN

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Who cares what your age is, if you like an S3, go for it as its a lovely car tbh, looks good at any age group & it's a weapon for sure.
 

Zer0

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Who cares what your age is, if you like an S3, go for it as its a lovely car tbh, looks good at any age group & it's a weapon for sure.
You are 100% right I think the same most of the time. But now that I’m ready to get it and actively searching for it I’m thinking is it to boy racerish. I’ve driven the r and s3 and really enjoyed it.
I know I will enjoy the smaller cars much more than the s4 as I’ve had heavier fast cars like that they just don’t seem very playful. I don’t do much miles on the motorway, usually city and B roads.
 

NHN

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I personally don't care what people think of what I drive, it's my choice & whatever they label it is there issue, it's not there car, it's mine lol.
 

Zer0

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I personally don't care what people think of what I drive, it's my choice & whatever they label it is there issue, it's not there car, it's mine lol.
All three cars don’t have apple CarPlay unless it’s newer do you retrofit that too?
 

I'm Just Rob.

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Its not really fair to compare the three directly as they are different cars.
B8.5 s4 is nothing like an S3 or golf, maybe compare S3 and golf , but don't stick the s4 into the mix.
S4 is a top tool in its own class, bigger car and not a hot hatch.

I'd take an S3 any day and a S4 , but I wouldn't compare them together.
S4 is by far the better car in my eyes and for my requirement, but if I wanted a hot hatch then i'd go S3.

All down to personal choice and one mans weapon of choice maynot be anothers.
 

V6_Man

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All three cars don’t have apple CarPlay unless it’s newer do you retrofit that too?

You can definitely retrofit CarPlay to an S4 - see below link to one that one of my mate has fitted to his CREC. And if it can be done to an S4, I am sure there will be options available for 7R and an S3.

For an S4 you can use your OE screen or retrofit a bigger screen, which looks hideous though.

https://store.p-d-r.co.uk/categories/audi/audi-android-auto-apple-carplay


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NHN

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There's numerous systems on the market oem or aftermarket for carplay, that's a minor consideration tbh these days when buying any of these cars.
 

Zer0

New Member
I’ve heard the crec is not great for tuning. I am not after great numbers but have seen a post on here saying mrc are reporting errors on even stage 1 on crecs.

tbh what I’m looking for is a car I can remap and have it do 0-60 around the 3.5 second mark I’m not chasing sub 3. Other than that fun, reliable and not cause a huge dent in my pocket.
Apple CarPlay is not mandatory but I would love to have Waze always on as it has all the speed cameras and I’m just used to it.
 

V6_Man

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I’ve heard the crec is not great for tuning. I am not after great numbers but have seen a post on here saying mrc are reporting errors on even stage 1 on crecs.

I have been completely out of sync with the tuning since the end of last year due to work and especially since COVID. However, I haven’t heard any such thing re: CREC tunes and MRC. In fact @Dippy (MRC) and @jdp1962 are both running SP Stage 2 and their numbers are pretty standard for Stage2. Dippy has been running MRC tune for around or little over three years, jdp was stage 1 for a while and recently went stage2.

Re: DP, you have IE and 034 available for CRECs; check Audizine and you’ll find a lot of info. In the UK, I believe Unicorn along with MRC both offer CREC DP. I have never looked at APR so, not sure about them.

IIRC, MRC did have some fuelling issues on a B8.5 non-CREC DP car but it wasn’t just DP. It was also decat, running test pipes, Merc HX, ported blower and MRC’s larger TB. However, that was towards the beginning of this year and I am not sure if it is all sorted now.

tbh what I’m looking for is a car I can remap and have it do 0-60 around the 3.5 second mark I’m not chasing sub 3. Other than that fun, reliable and not cause a huge dent in my pocket.

3.5-3.8 is achievable on a Stage 2. For sub 3, you definitely need a DP car with quite a few other mods. For me, I cannot justify spending between £3k - £4K to get extra 50ps.

Apple CarPlay is not mandatory but I would love to have Waze always on as it has all the speed cameras and I’m just used to it.

Nice to have vs must have. #Firstworldproblems


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V6_Man

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I personally don't care what people think of what I drive, it's my choice & whatever they label it is there issue, it's not there car, it's mine lol.

Spot on @NHN


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V6_Man

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There's numerous systems on the market oem or aftermarket for carplay, that's a minor consideration tbh these days when buying any of these cars.

@NHN is your man for any retrofits along with DJAlix. If they say yes, it means it can be done. A no means don’t bother


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Zer0

New Member
I have been completely out of sync with the tuning since the end of last year due to work and especially since COVID. However, I haven’t heard any such thing re: CREC tunes and MRC. In fact @Dippy (MRC) and @jdp1962 are both running SP Stage 2 on theirs and the numbers are pretty standard for Stage2. Re: DP, you have IE and 034 on CRECs; check Audizine and you’ll find a lot of info.

IIRC, MRC did have some fuelling issues on a B8.5 non-CREC DP car but it wasn’t just DP. It was also decat, running test pipes, Merc HX, ported blower and MRC’s larger TB. However, that was towards the beginning of this year and I am not sure if it is all sorted now.



3.5-3.8 is achievable on a Stage 2. For sub 3, you definitely need a DP car with quite a few other mods. For me, I cannot justify spending between £3k - £4K to get extra 50ps.



Nice to have vs must have. #Firstworldproblems


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Thank you!
So now this is making me feel a lot better towards the crec as I've found a decent one but the only thing that put me off that it was a crec. Is there a used buying guide on here for s4 crec? what to look out for etc? I will go see it tomorrow or latest Saturday. The seller also agreed that I can take it to any garage of my choosing for inspection before buying.
 

V6_Man

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Thank you!
So now this is making me feel a lot better towards the crec as I've found a decent one but the only thing that put me off that it was a crec. Is there a used buying guide on here for s4 crec? what to look out for etc? I will go see it tomorrow or latest Saturday. The seller also agreed that I can take it to any garage of my choosing for inspection before buying.

I don’t think there are any specific guides on forums however, there are quite a few threads here on ASN as well as PH. A few links below discussing pretty much similar things:

https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/s4-buying-guide.253924/
https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/buying-s4-thoughts-and-advice-needed-please.316547/

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1450325


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jdp1962

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As @V6_Man says, I've got a CREC-engined S4 that has been tuned to Stage Two using APR hardware; it also has a CarPlay/Android Auto retrofit supplied by this company. I am delighted with both, and the car itself is utterly perfect for me; so well does it match what I want from a car, it's as though the designer had a picture of me on his desk and said "I'm going to build that bloke a car."

As to the manual/auto debate, I'm as much of fan of selecting gears when I choose to as the next guy. But the idea that you need to stamp your foot on a pedal and pull or push a lever hundreds of times a day to do so I find quite absurd. It's the last vestige of Victorian engineering still left in car design, and I liken it to the rows of levers used in railway signal boxes before someone designed a better way of moving the points. My S4 has the most recent version of the DSG box (introduced around 2014 if I recall correctly but @Dippy will know better) and in the five years I've had the car, it's yet to miss a beat.

None of which, of course, is of any help to you in choosing your next car. I can't comment on either of the other two as I've not driven them. Even if I had, my impressions would be mine, not yours. You say you have one of each to choose from; my tip, drive each one and buy the one you like best. :)
 

V6_Man

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thanks but I can't message there "(You have insufficient privileges to reply here.)" I can't pm either.

Believe you need to have a minimum post count before you can PM someone.


Another bad side is he lives in Liverpool and I'm in London.

Not sure if it would help but I live in Oxford and picked up my S4 from Aberdeen


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Zer0

New Member
Believe you need to have a minimum post count before you can PM someone.




Not sure if it would help but I live in Oxford and picked up my S4 from Aberdeen


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did you buy yours from a dealer or private? If it was a dealer fine I would go pick it up and have warranty peace of mind even if it was the 28day warranty. But it's private and I will have to drag along someone that understands these cars and thats a long way to go and a big risk if it ends up not being the one.
 

quattrogone

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That age and mileage it would be fine, as long as you hpi check a car and go for the slightly more expensive version that show's log book loans e.t.c

I traveled from Devon/Cornwall border to Braintree Essex to get my latest squeeze :grimacing:
 

Zer0

New Member
So s4 crec fell through. He told me the reason for cat d was because it was stolen in 2016. Now I see it was seen in a salvage auction in 2020 and that’s when he purchased it. Not gonna bother with that.
 

jdp1962

Grumpy Old Man
So s4 crec fell through. He told me the reason for cat d was because it was stolen in 2016. Now I see it was seen in a salvage auction in 2020 and that’s when he purchased it. Not gonna bother with that.
Ah, shame; still, I think you've now reached minimum post count for private messaging. :)
 

V6_Man

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I’ve got no one to pm though lol. I keep checking the cars for sale section hopefully something pops up soon.

And what kind of budget do you have...


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Zer0

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And what kind of budget do you have...


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I’m trying go go max 17 including insurance but can increase depending on the car. Insurance is a killer because of my area. Best I’ve seen on these cars are 1.5k for the r and 2k for the s3 and around 2.5k on the s4
 

V6_Man

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I’m trying go go max 17 including insurance but can increase depending on the car. Insurance is a killer because of my area. Best I’ve seen on these cars are 1.5k for the r and 2k for the s3 and around 2.5k on the s4

Blimme, that’s expensive to insure. Good luck with your search, I am sure you’ll be able to find the right car for yourself.

And do check specialist insurers, sometimes they can be cheaper than the regular ones. Quite a few of us here are using the likes of Sky, AIB and Chris Knott etc.


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Dippy

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Biggest worry for the B8.5 S4 is still the s-tronic gearbox. There have been too many reports of failures and expensive repairs not to be concerned. Those of use with 2013+ cars are hoping that the 3rd version Audi produced is now reliable. My car is 5.5 years old now and no problems, but then its only done about 21K. I think Jeff has done a bit more and he has no trouble (AFAIK). But since there have been problems with the earlier versions I would still advise any potential buyer to only go for one built in late 2013 unless they are prepared to deal with possible problems.

There is every reason to also prefer the CREC. It seems to have solved most of the few problems that the previous engines had. Although it did have the fuel rail recall and so that would need to have been done and confidence that there are no coolant leaks afterwards. The CREC also has its extra fuel injectors which in theory (yet to be proved) reduces the risk of carbon build-up that is present for other TFSI engines. It has the same tuning potential of the previous engines. The only concern was the supercharger clutch. But its now over 3 years since my stage 2 and my clutch - which is not the latest revision - still seems fine. Maybe there are problems at "stage 3", but for me 480PS/585Nm is plenty for this platform.

I have no idea about the Golf or S3 themselves, but I certainly do know all about turbo cars. So please do not ignore the difference in the torque curve. Personally I loved the turbo rush from my Scooby and B5 S4 at the time, but now I much prefer the relative linearity of the supercharger's delivery and the low-down torque. Even though I have already decided that my next car won't be ICE, I don't think I could go back to a turbo anyway.
 

Zer0

New Member
Biggest worry for the B8.5 S4 is still the s-tronic gearbox. There have been too many reports of failures and expensive repairs not to be concerned. Those of use with 2013+ cars are hoping that the 3rd version Audi produced is now reliable. My car is 5.5 years old now and no problems, but then its only done about 21K. I think Jeff has done a bit more and he has no trouble (AFAIK). But since there have been problems with the earlier versions I would still advise any potential buyer to only go for one built in late 2013 unless they are prepared to deal with possible problems.

There is every reason to also prefer the CREC. It seems to have solved most of the few problems that the previous engines had. Although it did have the fuel rail recall and so that would need to have been done and confidence that there are no coolant leaks afterwards. The CREC also has its extra fuel injectors which in theory (yet to be proved) reduces the risk of carbon build-up that is present for other TFSI engines. It has the same tuning potential of the previous engines. The only concern was the supercharger clutch. But its now over 3 years since my stage 2 and my clutch - which is not the latest revision - still seems fine. Maybe there are problems at "stage 3", but for me 480PS/585Nm is plenty for this platform.

I have no idea about the Golf or S3 themselves, but I certainly do know all about turbo cars. So please do not ignore the difference in the torque curve. Personally I loved the turbo rush from my Scooby and B5 S4 at the time, but now I much prefer the relative linearity of the supercharger's delivery and the low-down torque. Even though I have already decided that my next car won't be ICE, I don't think I could go back to a turbo anyway.
I'd like to thank everyone on here for making me welcome truly great bunch of people here!
Since joining this forum I think I have switched s4 to my number one spot and will only consider the other two if I see a really good offer.

I see you have a s5 sportback I've been looking at them also but they seem to be much rarer and thats why I think a little pricier. Is there any difference whatsoever between the b8.5 s4 and s5 sportback? Visually the s5 looks a bit longer.
 

V6_Man

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I'd like to thank everyone on here for making me welcome truly great bunch of people here!
Since joining this forum I think I have switched s4 to my number one spot and will only consider the other two if I see a really good offer.

I see you have a s5 sportback I've been looking at them also but they seem to be much rarer and thats why I think a little pricier. Is there any difference whatsoever between the b8.5 s4 and s5 sportback? Visually the s5 looks a bit longer.

The difference; S4 - The Diana of the car world and S5 the Charles - a disaster and therefore why one would buy a disaster


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Dippy

Registered User
I'll not respond, I know you are both just jealous and wish you had an S5 sportback too :yes:

S4: L 4716 W(excl mirrors) 1826 H 1406 Wheelbase 2811 x 1552/1539
S5: L 4718 W(excl mirrors) 1854 H 1382 Wheelbase 2811 x 1588/1575

Obviously the main difference is the boot area & lid/hatch. Note that the S5 sportback has 2 rear seats (only 2 seatbelts). There were slight differences in the options lists - e.g. all S5 sportbacks had the supersports seats as standard - they were an option for the S4.
 

DAN@ADRIAN FLUX

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I’m trying go go max 17 including insurance but can increase depending on the car. Insurance is a killer because of my area. Best I’ve seen on these cars are 1.5k for the r and 2k for the s3 and around 2.5k on the s4
Hi.
If you ever need any help with insurance at all then please feel free to drop me a line.
Regards,
Dan.
 

steeve

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Cant speak about the S4, but I had an 8V S3 which I adored, later I had a Golf R 7.5 which was sadly a much better car dynamically and more fun to drive.
 
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