Blue Smoke

[Jimmeh]

I'm getting a fair amount of blue smoke out the rear of the S3.. Quite worrying. I'm going to be taking it into a garage lunch tomorrow but thought I would pick your brains first...

Having posted some pics of the small split in one of the pipes last week I also noticed the oil was low. This was when I noticed the smoke.. Filled up, ran it through and it's still the same. I made a good 140m trip today with a few stops, each time it leaves billowing blue smoke plumes behind trailing in my steps.

Can anyone hazard a guess or advise me the best action to take here?!

 

[Andy_S3]

Im no expert but that sounds like your turbo's on its last legs

 

[Tiger]

Piston rings worn, valve seats, turbo gaskets/seals, turbo itself, oil leaking onto exhaust....

 

[Clach]

how many miles on the car?

 

[Matt T]

Blue smoke is burning oil, so its prob one of the suggestions Tiger suggests.

 

[Jimmeh]

ahh man.. this doesn't sound good.

Car has covered 95k...

Sounds expensive.

 

[Tiger]

It was common on older engines, especially OHC engines to get blue smoke as the engines aged, but modern engines shouldnt have the problem because many other components are likely to fail before. Piston rings were the first things I would change when blue smoke appeared on older engines. Because its a turbo though, I would suspect that it may be that, do you notice it more when the turbo winds up or is it there all the time? If its there all the time i'd possibly rule out the turbo and look at oil seals/leaks especially. Unfortunately, it still sounds like it may be expensive, unless its as simple as a small oil leak onto your exhaust.

 

[Jimmeh]

Thanks Tiger.

It's difficult for me to comment on 'as and when'... more so when i'm just setting off. but it's certainly there most of the time now.

I fired her up earlier to show my Step-Farther (stationary) and it showed no signs. So I think it's engaged in the turbo somehow, yes?

It's a 2001 model, would you class this as the 'older engine'? Or are we talking late 80's early 90s etc?

Fingers crossed I am in the Office tomorrow so I can get it checked out at the garage!!

D'oh.

 

[Tiger]

I definitly wouldnt class it as an older engine no, when I say older engines i'm talking pre '90 I'd say the S3 engine is pretty much as modern as they come really, in its range at least.

It could be the turbo seals at best, at worst a new turbo, but if it comes to that, consider a good hybrid turbo or something, probably won't be much different on price.

Good luck, keep us posted.

 

[Jimmeh]

Thinking about it, yeh. Some good could come of this.. I could stick a bigger/better turbo in there!?

Any suggestions on the most common upgrades on the turbo? (I have minimal knowledge here.. I know how to keep cars clean, not how to fix/work with them)

I popped into the garage this morning to see what they think, I'm to pop around in my lunch hour. The thing is, I have a years Warranty on the vehicle, so if the garage get it stipped down, find the turbo is shot (or on its way..) a seal, new head or whatever is needed, a chap from the warranty comes to say "yes/no". If not, then I'm stuck with a healthy four-figure bill to pay!

Gah, I've not really had much luck with this car. Brought early June. Would anyone approach the (non audi) Independent Delear I brought it from?

 

[Clach]

it is worth a try, and the warrantly company have to pay for it is it is listed under your contract - but no doubt they will put up a fight and end up not paying for the attachments for it. Bolts, etc. Get a new turbo, bring some joy out of the situation, speak with Jabba sport.

Ps. I have given up on mods now (i think) just running an Audi is costing me a fortune. 40K Service soon, the suspension is shaky, the DIS is playing up..what next, and it only had 65K on the clock....

 

[Jimmeh]

'have to pay for it' - having never dealt with warranties before, is this always the case? I know it should state things further in small print, but if things were 'on the way out' (rather than being complete kaput!) is this still covered? It's better to catch things sooner, rather than later, right?!

Having been in touch with Quattronics:

"Blue smoke is oil being burnt through the engine and will either be turbo failure/bore wear/valve stem seal failure or valve guide wear."

Trouble is, they've got a quote standing for £1100 of work to do to my car.. They want to flush the entire internals. Clear the sump, fresh this, fresh that. (quite a big build up on carbon in the breather pipes) The quote has new oil pump, water pumps, all the seals, then all the cambelt kit etc.. I didn't want a cambelt change, but I understand this needs to be taken off etc to get within and the same belt shouldn't be put back on... I just don't know!

Anyone got a grand spare?!

 

[Clach]

the warranty company will not pay for freshening anything up, jsut parts and about £40 labour..sounds like they are haggling. They need to speak with your warranty company pronto, and see what agreement they come to before you agree to anything...

 

[Jimmeh]

The above wasn't regards the blue smoke, that was stuff they wanted to do prior to the arrival of my new issue! (a overhaul service, if you like)

I am taking the car somewhere different at lunch, they have helped me in the past.

That's the trouble.. this garage won't be able to diagnose anything until the engines in pieces? Then, and only then would they be able to contact the Warranty guys to see about a claim. (who would no doubt send in an 'approved' engineer)

Anyone want a Hibisuc Red S3 ?

 

[Audi-Max]

I have a pipe (hose) which i beleive is the oil breather hose which has a crack in it.

Its been losing oil at a quick rate and has been giving me some blue smoke aswell.

maybe yours could also be down to the fact that the pipe is split.

I dont know alot about engines so just giving a suggestion

Im going to ring EuroCarParts to get a part number for the oil breather pipe and hopefully that will solve the problem.

 

[Clach]

I think a diagram with where these pipes are located and what all these pipes do would be a good suggestion...anyone?

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

Possibly valve stem seals? Thats what it was on my friends car which was mostly on idle, when you put your foot down the compression made the smoke dissapear.

 

[Jimmeh]

A diagram with the breather pipes etc would be very useful, yes.

I've just got in from the garage, furious. (although theres nothing that could of been done to prevent this)

It seems as though it is infact, the turbo. Whether it's shot completely or its just the seals that are broke, I do not know. Saying that, the car wouldn't run if the turbo went totally, would it? I'm leaving a smoke screen behind me now, it has got worst today. The smoke if defo only upon acceleration. holiding the revs at 2000rpm whilst stood produced nothing..

A 'new' K04 (standard 210bhp turbo, correct?) will cost £770. Reconditioned, probably 50/60% of the new one.

Would it be wiser to go with a different turbo? What is the K04s people talk about? What would YOU do in my situation?

I left the car at the garage. I don't want to drive it.. It is to be stripped down and inspected. If it is indeed the turbo, warranty side of things, I'm screwed. They would only cover it if it had completely gone bang. Wear and tear isn't covered. Is 'wear and tear' possible on the turbos? Something would of had to of gone wrong, surely?

I'm sat with a BigMac, twiddeling my thumbs and sulking. Gah!

 

[Clach]

Sorry to hear mate...Have a go with the warrantly company, they should cover this as it is a major component. If not get an upgraded turbo, Jabba sport are experts and would maybe give you a deal and they do this sort of thing everyday..

 

[Jimmeh]

Thanks Clach.

I have put across a quick message to Jabba regards my situation.

If I was lucky enough to take things down the Warranty road, I wouldn't of thought I would get away with having an uprated turbo put in..? (unless I made this known and I was to pay the difference?!)

Time will tell. For now, I ride with a friend in his ITR.

 

[Jimmeh]

Update:

Turbo bolts have been rounded off in the past. Not good. This means an engine out job to remove & check the turbo.

However. The pipes we all talk about, the garage are not happy with. They had a 'quick fix' whilst at quattronics, yet they are now crushed and there is no room for air flow.

This could be an alternative answer to my smoke screen.. would this still only 'smoke' when under acceleration? Oil pressure through the pipes and all that?

If this IS the case, silly me for not noticing before hand. But WIN WIN on the money front. I'd rather pay for 3 new pipes than a new turbo, thanks.

The Fiesta 'Style' courtesy car awaits collection.

 

[Jimmeh]

An interesting one..

I have the car back, seems to be running fine.

The oil breather pipes (bundle that sits to the right of the block) had been crushed and had no rigidity to them. My engine wasn't breathing well, and this, so it seems, is what caused the smoke screen trailing behind my car. (my bad..)

I'm still not happy that this is a car that I payed good moeny for (with sufficient Audi Dealer history..) only two month ago..

I'm supposed to have a boost leak somewhere along the line too. When I had a run out with a chap who had VAGCOM set up he noted the max readings weren't being hit - thus, thinking I had a leak. Which pipes would I check to see if there were any obvious signs?

Are there any local chaps to me (Nottinghamshire) that I could meet with for a VAGCOM run again to see if this problem still persists? (now I have a breathing engine..)

Cheers.

 

[Clach]

Audi history means little mate...I have had work done at Audi that is highly suspect in terms of checking over the car. They rush work through like we all do! You must be glad that it is just that though mate...did the other guys not want to fleece you of over a grand originally, how can the justify that now!!!!!!

 

[Jimmeh]

This other guy was a Audi specialist local to me, Quattronics. He wanted jsut over £1k for work not including the lastest smoke issue. His temporary pipes however, didn't do me any favours.

This is true, it's been said FASH means nothing. Take my engine for instance, full of carbon build up. heh. (still, I didnt expect such work so soon after buying a new car! )

I'm pleased, yes. The works been done for me for £120, not bad. Had it been the turbo, then I'd of been looking at four figures easily. (but then I WOULD of approached the garage/warranty for help.)

I know there is a meet in my area soon (I think..), I should try to make that as it would be great to talk some things through with you guys.