Brake noise

[T-800]

Hi all,

Been out today and noticed that after being sat at a junction or traffic lights, when pulling away there is a noticeable clunk / noise as the brakes release, now could this be wet weather related ? Anyone else notice this at the moment ?

I've also noticed quite an audible sound when releasing the handbrake sometimes as well, almost like its stuck on if you know what I mean.

 

[45bvtc]

Usually at the back Sean, mine does it too. As does the TT - and our previous: TT, A2, and S3 before, though with the RS3 is does sound louder and feel more violent. It does feel at times that I've slotted rotors until I've applied them a few times.

If washing the wheels I try not to 'wet' the brake discs but if I do then I run the car around the block just to dry 'em off - works for me. If I don’t do that I'm back to the scenario you report.

Happy New Year Sean.

 

[Mr_Freeze]

When you park up, leave the handbrake off. It's going nowhere when it's in "Park" and this stops the handbrake rusting on.

 

[T-800]

The handbrake noise i can understand after it being engaged for a couple of hours, however the loud "clunk" thats coming from the front brakes as they release is something thats only recently started to occur, its that loud that a passenger has commented on it !

And why has it started to make this noise all of sudden ? its as if the front pads are sticking to the disc and being jolted off as the car moves off ?!???

 

[45bvtc]

The handbrake noise i can understand after it being engaged for a couple of hours, however the loud "clunk" thats coming from the front brakes as they release is something thats only recently started to occur, its that loud that a passenger has commented on it !

And why has it started to make this noise all of sudden ? its as if the front pads are sticking to the disc and being jolted off as the car moves off ?!???

Yep! As before Sean but a question, does this 'jolt' occur when: a) the brakes are dry, or b) only when wet/damp? If when dry then I'd pull the pads and lubricate as before. Interestingly, Stafford Audi lubricated my pads to the caliper during the 47i6 upgrade, but I've seen cars where the pads are dry in the caliper. And, Stafford Audi told me they had to 'pay' for the 'special grease' used. So are yours dry too?

 

[T-800]

Yep! As before Sean but a question, does this 'jolt' occur when: a) the brakes are dry, or b) only when wet/damp? If when dry then I'd pull the pads and lubricate as before. Interestingly, Stafford Audi lubricated my pads to the caliper during the 47i6 upgrade, but I've seen cars where the pads are dry in the caliper. And, Stafford Audi told me they had to 'pay' for the 'special grease' used. So are yours dry too?

To be honest John, first time i've noticed it myself is today, although my better half did say it's a noise she has heard in the past couple of weeks.

Today it was p***ing down as well, but strange as it was p***ing down in Cornwall all week and never heard anything ??

Maybe as the pads are wearing they are starting to become stuck in the caliper ? As before are they a tight fit / brake dust making them stick ?

 

[T-800]

I think a strip down is in order John,

I'll get it in my garage this week to investigate !

If they are dry i'll use the Pagid lubricant see if that cures it.

 

[monkeyboy_marcus]

Interesting thread, as my brakes have occasionally started sticking when I go to leave the garage and I have to bump the throttle slightly to get them to release. Not every time and I've not really paid attention to the preceding environmental conditions - maybe slight surface rust?

Made sure my Brembo sport pads were properly installed, so shouldn't be due to them getting stuck…

Best wishes for 2014 all RS3 folks!

 

[dbm]

I do get this with my car too in wet weather, but not in the dry so (in my case) definitely surface rust.

My drive has a slight slope, so I park with the handbrake on. I have been told that leaving the car in Park on a slope puts some wear / strain on the gear box which is avoided if you use the handbrake too. I don't tend to use it on the flat.

 

[T-800]

Interesting,

Regarding the handbrake mine tends to do it first thing from the garage with quite a noticeable thunk.

One other thing with the handbrake I've noticed, is when going back to it after some time parked up it does feel as though it's not as 'tight' as I left it, almost as if the cable has slackened off a little, and yes I do understand that pads heat up the discs and as they cool things contract a little, but the mechanism is designed with this in mind.

The front brakes now that's a different story as yesterday it was doing it quite a lot when we were out and about, so it's not like the car had been stood about long enough for the front discs to develop surface rust.

I have a feeling that when the brake update was done in August, that they have put the new pads in 'dry' with no lubrication and now they are starting to stick in the caliper upon braking, so when you take your foot off the brake to move off that is when you get the thud/clunk etc......

Strangely enough mine has never had the squeal it developed at about 600 miles AFTER the update since (this could be because I bedded them in myself)

Will report back when it's been stripped down this week.

happy new year to all on this superb forum.

 

[T-800]

It's still a ****** fantastic car though in my opinion !!!!!!!

Overheard Several people commenting on it yesterday as we parked up, one guy and his wife really having a good look, another chap and his lady friend (who were in an S3) admiring it as we were waiting at the traffic lights.

 

[45bvtc]

I never use the handbrake (RS3 or TT) in the garage as the garage floor IS level, however, if I've stored the brakes wet then I do get a massive 'clunk' when driving out either forwards or rearwards (both cars are the same): and when driving down the road the 'chopping' feel/noise (in both cars) feels like I'm on slotted rotors for the first few applications. It's definitely worse on the rears.

TEST:
1) Wet the rear brakes one evening, park the car without the handbrake applied, and next morning put the car in 'neutral' and try pushing the car either forward or rearward; bet you'll find the pads stuck to the discs.

2) Now start the car and drive the car forward or rearward (BIG 'clunk as the pads release the rotor). Stop the car and visually inspect the 'lipped' pad-shape rust-patch on the rotor - that'll be the 'clunk' and then the 'chopping' feel/noise made as the rotors clean up.

SAME on both cars for me...

 

[dbm]

Do you have an option re loading the gearbox by just using P when on a slope?

 

[45bvtc]

Only the handbrake if on a slope... But this is NOT a major issue, I've had it for 10-years or more on a number of Audi cars and once your content with the cause then it ain't a problem...

 

[dbm]

I was thinking more about whether it is bad to just use P when on a slope?

 

[T-800]

Update.

Stripped both front Calipers down today, the new pads on both sides look like they've got some lubricant on the backs

The pads were free to move in the Caliper so that rules out my theory on them 'Sticking' and causing the clunking.

One thing I did notice is that the anti-squeal shims have a semicircular cut out where the piston makes contact with the back of the pad, not sure how this helps / what it's for.

Cleaned up the pads, re-lubricated with Pagid and popped 'em back in.

Also thought while I've the front wheels off I'd clean and paint the disc edge and spider with POR 15 Silver.

So I'll see if that makes any difference with the clunking noise and report back in due course.

 

[MBK]

I agree it's a good idea to give your brakes a quick service if you are getting any sticking with the wet weather. My lower pins were stuck in tight - some pad material/road debris build up and the combination of a few track heat cycles. Removing and cleaning up the pins helps keep things easy to service in future. The pads were fine and the discs were given a good surface clean to remove a bit of build up of pad material - this is normal with the Pagid RS4 Blue pads.

 

[babyboss]

got same clunk noise evry now & again ..

I jus live with it , otherwise car sits @ dealer for a week & they cant find any faults !!

 

[45bvtc]

Weston Park car park yesterday and we're just getting out of Bluey when I hear brake squeal!

Look around and there's a Q5 (4-ladies aboard) trying to park between two other cars: as I latch onto the car she's reversing out a little and then drives slowly forward again and again SQUEALS to a stop.

I now have that knowing 'all-male' grin...

Oh dear, passenger can't get out, too close on the nearside.

Reverse out and she (bless her) has another go and again does a 2mph SQUEAL to a stop.

Out she gets and I goes for a chat: the good news is that (with the windows up, and they were probably all talking anyway) she hadn't heard the 'squeal', but everyone in the car park had.

And to think that could have been anyone of us last year...

 

[T-800]

Err I didn't want to say anything as it's tiring now, BUT yesterday the brake squeal returned with a vengeance ! Can't understand it ! The cars been excellent since the stripdown then this !! Very high pitched squeal on coming to standstill (5-10mph)
Conditions were fine and dry at the time of said squeal.

I can feel another stripdown coming on.

 

[DAYTONA 500]

Err I didn't want to say anything as it's tiring now, BUT yesterday the brake squeal returned with a vengeance ! Can't understand it ! The cars been excellent since the stripdown then this !! Very high pitched squeal on coming to standstill (5-10mph)
Conditions were fine and dry at the time of said squeal.

I can feel another stripdown coming on.

Is it as bad as this famous recording{sex tape} of Nickyboy's S4 on RS246 ?.

 

[Moschops]

Oh dear guys that doesn't good at all. Good luck with getting it put right.

 

[T-800]

Err I didn't want to say anything as it's tiring now, BUT yesterday the brake squeal returned with a vengeance ! Can't understand it ! The cars been excellent since the stripdown then this !! Very high pitched squeal on coming to standstill (5-10mph)
Conditions were fine and dry at the time of said squeal.

I can feel another stripdown coming on.

Well I found an hour or so this afternoon to stripdown the fronts AGAIN, the returning squeal is embarrassing and I couldn't stand it any longer, so pads out, cleaned up with 3M shims stuck on with Pagid lubricant applied.

Fingers crossed lets see if the squeal returns now !!!!

 

[Dave Hedgehog]

the upgraded kit has totally cured mine of noise, driving in traffic all i got was squeal squeal squeal constantly ..

 

[45bvtc]

Well I found an hour or so this afternoon to stripdown the fronts AGAIN, the returning squeal is embarrassing and I couldn't stand it any longer, so pads out, cleaned up with 3M shims stuck on with Pagid lubricant applied.

Fingers crossed lets see if the squeal returns now !!!!

That'll be it sorted then Sean...

Your photo in post #16 does show metal-to-metal contact to the back of the pad and that IS the source of the brake squeal; now, however, thanks to the additional 3M self-adhesive anti-squeal shims, you'll have no metal-to-metal contact so bye, bye brake squeal.

I've only done 850-miles on my 47i6 upgraded brakes and have zero issues. Ok, so I arranged that Audi did not drive the car post upgrade but allowed me to bed-in the pads to the letter! But the pedal is now as good as original, as is the 'bite', and the brake dust is 10% of the originals - and I like that too.

Oh, and those four REQILL (REQILL® Tuned Absorbers – a tuned solution for brake noise and vibration problems) vibration-damping bobbins remain on the garage bench. I may fit those if and when brake-squeal occurs, if only to evaluate the effectiveness, but I'm 100% sure to be fitting the 3M self-adhesive anti-squeal shims.

My brake squeal first appeared at 1250-miles, and the brake pistons had worn through the original Audi/Brembo anti-squeal material, just the same as yours. However, when the upgrade was done to my car last September, I'd done 4500-miles with the 3M self-adhesive anti-squeal shims on the back of those 'original' brake pads, and those 'shims' were still perfect!

Just think of the possible decision-making within Audi and two of the known options they had:

Option 1) 1-pack of 3M self-adhesive anti-squeal shims off eBay with FREE post for £4.99, 1-packet of brake grease, and 2-hours max in the workshop, or

Option 2) 2-NEW brake discs, 4-NEW brake pads, 2-NEW brake calipers, 1-packet of brake grease, 2-NEW brake hangers and fastenings, 4-REQUIL Tuned Absorbers, a brake bleed, and 3-hours in the workshop.

Hmmm. Let me think about this: option 1), or option 2).

Let's do option 2), 'cos if 2) don't work we can always try option 1).

 

[45bvtc]

the upgraded kit has totally cured mine of noise, driving in traffic all i got was squeal squeal squeal constantly ..

I'll lay my £1 down now your brake-squeal WILL be back in less than 3500-miles from your 47i6 upgrade Dave.

I'd go 1500-miles but as I'm a pensioner I'll hang the odds out some...

But DO NOT kid yourself it won't be back...

 

[Dave Hedgehog]

I'll lay my £1 down now your brake-squeal WILL be back in less than 3500-miles from your 47i6 upgrade Dave.

I'd go 1500-miles but as I'm a pensioner I'll hang the odds out some...

But DO NOT kid yourself it won't be back...

Got 3k on it now still no squeak

 

[45bvtc]

Got 3k on it now still no squeak

That's funny Dave, thanks, but I'll need chapter and verse before I let that £1 go...

£1

 

[MBK]

Ooh a brake squeal thread again, here we go! I'm not going to say it but I was always sceptical of the fix as various Subarus, Evos etc have had this problem and to my knowledge never permanently solved.

For interest this is what the AP upgrade discs look like after about 8k road miles and 250 or so track miles. Still loads of depth on the disc and the pads are barely worn. The cold weather meant a bit of pad build up on the disc but nothing a good run or a gentle skim wouldn't resolve. I took these pictures for a couple of people who were interested in the disc but though as we have an ongoing brake thread I'd share them here too.

The full kit:


Plenty of pad left...


Close up of the disc surface - the pad imprints are from running in cold/wet weather not the track time.


Incredible stopping power on track, faultless even with 1600kg+ to slow from 120mph + to just 29mph at Pembrey. These make the ceramic option look pricey and you'd have to be doing some serious track work to need them. Doesn't stop me wanting cermac brakes at some point though!

Oh and these don't squeal (though they do grumble in the cold and give more vibration through the wheel due to the grooves) but I agree it's way too pricey just to solve that problem.

 

[T-800]

All I can say MBK is (as the song goes) "please don't go" we will gladly adopt your next purchase here !! Just for the reviews and write ups alone !!!

 

[T-800]

That'll be it sorted then Sean...

Your photo in post #16 does show metal-to-metal contact to the back of the pad and that IS the source of the brake squeal; now, however, thanks to the additional 3M self-adhesive anti-squeal shims, you'll have no metal-to-metal contact so bye, bye brake squeal.

I've only done 850-miles on my 47i6 upgraded brakes and have zero issues. Ok, so I arranged that Audi did not drive the car post upgrade but allowed me to bed-in the pads to the letter! But the pedal is now as good as original, as is the 'bite', and the brake dust is 10% of the originals - and I like that too.

Oh, and those four REQILL (REQILL® Tuned Absorbers – a tuned solution for brake noise and vibration problems) vibration-damping bobbins remain on the garage bench. I may fit those if and when brake-squeal occurs, if only to evaluate the effectiveness, but I'm 100% sure to be fitting the 3M self-adhesive anti-squeal shims.

My brake squeal first appeared at 1250-miles, and the brake pistons had worn through the original Audi/Brembo anti-squeal material, just the same as yours. However, when the upgrade was done to my car last September, I'd done 4500-miles with the 3M self-adhesive anti-squeal shims on the back of those 'original' brake pads, and those 'shims' were still perfect!

Just think of the possible decision-making within Audi and two of the known options they had:

Option 1) 1-pack of 3M self-adhesive anti-squeal shims off eBay with FREE post for £4.99, 1-packet of brake grease, and 2-hours max in the workshop, or

Option 2) 2-NEW brake discs, 4-NEW brake pads, 2-NEW brake calipers, 1-packet of brake grease, 2-NEW brake hangers and fastenings, 4-REQUIL Tuned Absorbers, a brake bleed, and 3-hours in the workshop.

Hmmm. Let me think about this: option 1), or option 2).

Let's do option 2), 'cos if 2) don't work we can always try option 1).

It's a good thing John that the RS3 pads are so quick and easy to get out !!

 

[45bvtc]

Update.

Stripped both front Calipers down today, the new pads on both sides look like they've got some lubricant on the backs

The pads were free to move in the Caliper so that rules out my theory on them 'Sticking' and causing the clunking.

One thing I did notice is that the anti-squeal shims have a semicircular cut out where the piston makes contact with the back of the pad, not sure how this helps / what it's for.

Cleaned up the pads, re-lubricated with Pagid and popped 'em back in.

Also thought while I've the front wheels off I'd clean and paint the disc edge and spider with POR 15 Silver.

So I'll see if that makes any difference with the clunking noise and report back in due course.
View attachment 25388 View attachment 25389 View attachment 25393

Just thought I'd add this; you can see the anti-squeal material on the back of Sean's pads, and that the pistons have again in a relatively short time worn through the anti-squeal material so hard metal-to-metal contact is now creating the 'brake-squeal' he now hears.

Now this is the Brembo replacement brake pad that Brembo claimed: "Fed up with squeaking factory front brake pads on your TT RS or RS3? We have an answer for you: The Brembo Sport brake pad set! Tried and tested cost effective pad upgrade available from APS."

And the difference here is that the anti-squeal shim is 'protected' with a 'secured' outer metal shim, the caliper pistons will never wear through this during the life-time of the brake pad allowing the anti-squeal shim to remain 100% effective.

 

[MBK]

An intersting write up from RS3 hater Chris Harris himself this month re the brakes on his mapped and lightly modified 'charged S4

Audi S4: PH Fleet - PistonHeads

"Those enlarged Stasis brakes have been mixed so far. They started out being very good with a reassuring pedal and far less fade, then a few months in they began grumbling under even moderate use. Now they get very, very noisy, but they do still just about hang on. I'll have the pads off to see what's going on."

I'd agree with his words, this is how the AP/PAGID set up felt and sounded during the clod and wet weather over the last few months. Taking the pads out and cleaning the disc surfaces resolved the problem a little but it's clear these bigger brake set ups like to get properly hot from time to time to work effectively.

 

[S3 AD]

Well I have to (for a change) defend Audi, I am certainly not going to disagree with our very own RS3 Yoda (yes thats you John), but my experience withe Audi's brake fix has been all positive. 6.5k completed in all weathers and temps and no sign at all of any noise, and I have made sure they have been well tested! but I was careful about running them in for about 300 miles. Strange how experiences differ, and this time I am counting my self lucky.

 

[45bvtc]

BUT I AM very happy with my 47i6 upgrade brakes Andy as my recent feedback to Audi UK (Kelly Hathaway said:

"Some feedback Kelly, my brakes are superb, thank you…

Stafford Audi did my 47i6 upgrade in September 2013. As agreed with Stafford Audi, and as discussed with yourself, I bedded-in my brakes fully and according to the Brembo recommendations.

The initial 'bite' and 'pedal-feel' improved dramatically over that first 30-miles or so (of bedding-in), but did take some 100-miles to feel entirely satisfactory. However, with 1000-miles use the brakes are now quite superb, better than original, and with very low dust.

For your information I am running WITHOUT the 4 x REQILL® Tuned Absorbers, (I removed them on day-1 as I told Martin Sander I would), but will fit those if and when brake squeal reoccurs, however, I do not expect them to be effective."

That said, I do expect at some time to see exactly the same problem Sean has; if and when brake squeal occurs I will fit those 4 x REQILL® Tuned Absorbers if only to evaluate for myself; no point in evaluating these items unless brake-squeal IS an issue.

I am aware that the 47i6 upgrade is designed to address a number of issues and not only brake-squeal which is what those Brembo replacement pad are intended to do (and I do have a set of those to try maybe (?), as I have sets of Mintex self-adhesive anti-squeal shims in stock too), however, for the time being I've zero complaint.

But as you've done Andy I bedded-in my brake pads fully to the Brembo recommendation and I do think that initial bedding-in process conditioned the friction material properly.

Note: I did provide Audi UK with a copy of the Brembo procedure, have supplied the same to two Audi dealers, but at this time know of no dealer that's undertaking this procedure, or advising customers, to do the same…

 

[T-800]

Now then,

A couple of weeks ago as you all know i stripped down (again) the front brakes, took out the pads and applied 3M anti-squeal shims and lubricated with Pagid lubricant and re-assembled.

Car has been squeal free for a good week or so, however it has (again) developed the squeal, strangely though it only ever does it as i (or the other half) arrive outside our house !???
I can be out for a couple of hours driving the RS3 in stop start traffic Etc..... nothing, quiet as a mouse how strange is that !

I did however speak to APS a couple of days ago about the Pads (see john's post above with picture) they offer as a 'no squeal' option, now the chap i spoke to seemed to think the friction material in the 'new brake setup' could be causing the intermittant squeak I'm getting (AFTER applying the 3M shims and Pagid anti-squeal lubricant).

So i think for me it IS going to be a case of swapping the updated pads for the Brembo alternatives that APS offer.

I'll update after they've been changed.

 

[45bvtc]

FACINATING... You have ALL the info Sean, let me know if you need anything...