New RS4 is now over £20k more in Europe due to exchange rates. A weaker pound doesn't help EU car buyers and that's before tariffs. Maybe the mods are out moonlighting to raise extra cash.
Clarkson on the RS3 saloon
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Evotion
The Greed For Speed
Nooo, don't mention politics and the RS3 in the same breath - it will ruin my ownership experience.
****** forex - Ferraris and Lambos have got more expensive too, not just the German cars.
If you want your country back then support us leaving the EU and not being ruled and dictated to by unelected bureaucrats...my fellow Panther black RS3 friend
Sorry Evotion...I'm biting...! Pretty sure this thread has run it's course anyway. It was a pants review that took me until the 12th paragraph to realise it was on the RS3 and not a Toyota Prius...
Basically the RS3 is a nice car, but it's expensive...and it's Sat Nav is fine...
I heard this sound bite a lot during the referendum campaign and so decided to look into how the EU legislative process works...
Now I have next to sod all knowledge on law and legislation, as I have a hard enough time keeping up with knowledge in my own career, but as far as I could work out the following is true:
The UK has 73 UK MEPs, all voted for by us.
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/en/your-meps/uk_meps.html
We are one of the 'big 3' member states with 73 MEPs, which is proportional to the number of citizens in our country (Germany and France being 1 and 2 respectively).
Legislation follows the 'ordinary legislation procedure', whereby the national committees of each of the member states is able to review the draft legislation first. Importantly "National parliaments can formally express their reservations if they feel that it would be better to deal with an issue at national rather than EU level."
Advice is also sought from non-governmental organisations to look at the social, economic and environmental impact of any new legislation. Furthermore, citizens also have the chance to voice their opinion through a website during public consultation.
Presumably it is then discussed by the 736 MEPs and amendments and agreements can be made before finally adopting the new legislation. The idea is that proposals are agreed upon through consensus, so that all member states are happy to adopt the legislation.
Source: https://europa.eu/european-union/eu-law/decision-making/procedures_en
I'm missing which part of this is 'undemocratic'...? Surely if you have an issue with any EU legislation, you need to take it up with the current government, which theoretically represents the majority view of the UK population, or the MEP voted in your constituency, who also represents the majority view of the constituents in your area.
Which brings me to the second point....what legislation the EU has actually proposed that you disagree with, and what effect has it had on the UK that you dislike....?
Written evidence by Prof Michael Dougan from University of Liverpool European Law Unit suggests not a lot....
"First, there are questions concerning the nature of the legislation produced by the EU. EU law tends to be concentrated in particular fields of activity (e.g. single market, consumer rights, environmental protection); when it comes to other sectors, the EU’s legislative activities are much more marginal (e.g. taxation, public health, education). Even within sectors which see greater EU regulation, we should not automatically assume there is some uniform set of rules that makes every country’s legislation identical; the EU often operates by setting broad principles and objectives or establishing framework regimes and minimum standards –leaving Member States discretion about how to tailor such legislation to their own contexts and needs. There is also the obvious point that not all law is of the same significance: much EU legislation is very humdrum and of no wider political salience; while other EU acts are far more important in terms of what they set out to achieve and the instruments they use to achieve them – though the number of genuinely significant legislative measures adopted by the EU each year is relatively low (probably something closer to 15-25). There is also the underlying point that much of this EU legislation concerns issues that would need to be regulated in any case, and the basic rules would often look very similar: after all, we do not want to place unsafe toys on the market; we want to limit air pollution; we want to promote equal treatment between men and women etc.
Secondly, there is the simple fact that, despite the casual rhetoric used by many commentators, EU legislation is not somehow “imposed” upon the UK as if we were the helpless victim of Brussels. As one of the “Big 3” Member States that dominate the EU’s political agenda, we exercise significant influence at the EU level when it comes to agenda setting, negotiating policies, and building alliances. Moreover, despite QMV now being the normal voting rule, the Council still seeks to operate in practice through compromise and consensus – so that most of the time, most Member States feel able to sign up to most EU decisions. Of course, the UK will sometimes be outvoted on particular measures – but within the overall scheme of EU decision-making, that is still a relatively unusual occurrence and not necessarily any reliable indicator of our overall political influence over EU policies. If a Member State objects to some EU act not merely on political grounds but because it believes some constitutional principle is at stake – for example, that the relevant EU body has overstepped the limits of its powers – then that Member State can seek judicial review to defend its fundamental interests (as the UK did with the Eurozone Clearing House ruling in 2015)."
http://data.parliament.uk/writtenev...efits-of-uks-eu-membership/written/24249.html
Also goes on to discuss why quantitative measures of 'laws' enacted on the UK but the EU is a non-starter and results in meaningless statistics...
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Clarksons opinion on RS3 to politics, how did that happen?
Oh yeah, Tory voter with loads of money and not interested in any one else’s opinion.
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Oh yeah, Tory voter with loads of money and not interested in any one else’s opinion.
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Don’t hate on the Tory voters
I didn’t mention hate or judgements, just the link between Clarkson and politics
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"Of the 72 occasions where the UK has opposed a particular EU measure, we have been successful precisely 0 times...". Yep, sounds like we're 'influential' in Europe.
And how many times did the UK vote in favour of a EU measure and it was successful....?
2466.
Concluding that the UK lacks influence in the EU based on the fact that it has been outvoted 3% of the time seems odd to me...
Believe this is the original article that connected the research:
http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/66261/1/Hix_Brexit matter_2016.pdf
But again, as you have no indication of the qualitative nature of the legislation, how much the UK opposed it, and what affect it would have on the UK as a whole, comparing raw numbers like this seems like a pretty pointless exercise. Namely because all the above would be incredibly difficult to describe for all 2,600+ EU legislations since 1999....
The article that increased the number from 56 to 72 is below and includes a breakdown of all the 72 EU measures that the UK was outvoted for:
https://gallery.mailchimp.com/1026e6b00f73284a7e46eb046/files/20151009_UK_influence.pdf#page=5
I note that the vast majority of latter measures were direct reforms to the budget of the EU itself...
Whether this was significant of not, and the reasons for the UK voting against them are completely unclear.
And again, it ignores the many processes that the legislation goes through during the initial review process. There would be many legislations that would not even make it to the voting stage, but their numbers are unknown. How many of those did the UK oppose to, that were successful in not even making it to the vote?
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Can be start a separate thread for non car discussion. I was merely pointing out that the madness of Brexit is increasing the cost of EU cars!!!!
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Dear lord.
Referendum - "a general vote by the electorate on a single political question which has been referred to them for a direct decision."
The country voted to leave the EU. That's now what's happening.
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I know that, but nonetheless they asked the people for their opinion and the majority said "let's leave", which the elected government are now ensuring happens.
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The price of cars has shot up though.
In 2011 I bought a brand new Audi TTS for £30k ..... now they are £40k base.
S3's were similar money - now you struggle to get a S3 for under £40k and are well approaching mid £40k's for well specced S3 saloon.
In 2011 I bought a brand new Audi TTS for £30k ..... now they are £40k base.
S3's were similar money - now you struggle to get a S3 for under £40k and are well approaching mid £40k's for well specced S3 saloon.
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And that's not to do with currency either. Midway through 2011 the pound was weaker against the euro than it is now! In fact, the 10 year average of £/€ is only 1/1.21. Cars are just getting more expensive.
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Midway through 2011, the dip was a known by investors who used the opportunity to heavily invest at the discount in a dependable currency that in turn produce the quick rise to 1.20+. The difference now is that at 1.12, no one is heavily investing giving a poor prognosis for the future
IF you are correct on the average, then this is a difference of 09c to todays rate. Maybe not much to you!
Should VAG decide that they peg today's rate as the figure for the next year or so, means that a 60k€ European car will become £53,571 against £49,586 if they were able to continue with the last ten year average - in fact, quite a difference even before you get to the general manufacturing increases.
The WTO tariff will add even more, but this was an accepted cost I guess when making the decision to go crazy.
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What planet are you on?! In mid 2011 (the year Snake purchased his old car, I do not know the exact date, hence picking the mid point) the £ was at 1.10. Don't make me paste the chart. Today, right now, in front of my very eyes on Bloomberg, it is 1.127. What is factually incorrect about that?
If you insist on your pro Brexit nonsense please get your facts right. In June 2016 it was over €1.30 to the £ today it is barely €1.11
There is no excuse for presenting clearly wrong data which is why Brexit must not happen.
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It makes me laugh how remoaners say it's going to be a disaster. How do we know...it's not happened yet!
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This is an utopian hope, but I fear if it were to come about, the horse has bolted - too many of the large service providers that make up the bulk of the UK GDP have gone - could they be enticed back, and at what cost?
Let's have a referendum...
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