CLARKSON today on brake squeal, and it's NOT what you think...

[45bvtc]

Now I LIKE Clarkson, a lot! For me, Clarkson IS funny, stupid, infantile, childish, and daft; but above all, HONEST!

So this, from today's (23 Feb 2014) Sunday Times, is an extract from his review on the Peugeot RCZ R, and which has a lot of resonance for us RS3 owners as it puts the brake squeal some of us have experienced into some perspective, so just laugh about it:

"First, my test car was delivered with squeaky brakes. Yup. A press demonstrator was sent to be reviewed in one of the world’s most respected newspapers. And Peugeot couldn’t even get that right. So what chance do you have, Mr Normal of High Wycombe?

I’m not sure there’s a worse noise in the world than the shriek caused by tiny vibrations in the braking system. It’s up there with accidental feedback on a village show’s public-address system. Or the yell of a baby at three in the morning when you are at 30,000ft over Turkmenistan. Or Céline Dion.

And there’s nothing you can do to stop it. It doesn’t matter whether you brake gently and early or hard and late — you get exactly the same noise, and exactly the same look of pained disdain from everyone within earshot. Which is everyone within about 17 miles.

If you are at a party and a man vomits on you, you will spend the rest of the evening looking for other things to dislike about him. And I’m afraid that’s how it went with the RCZ R. Because of those brakes, I went on a mission to find other stuff I didn’t like. I found quite a lot."

And there's more, but that's the relevant bit.

What's the betting the Peugeot RCZ R has Brembo brakes...

Oh! And don't forget that Audi gave Clarkson an RS4 to evaluate in 2012 complete with Audi RS brake squeal: go see the December 2012 thread "AUDI UK gives CLARKSON a NEW AUDI with brake squeal to evaluate", and Jeremy reported that as was...

GO Jeremy!

 

[Dave Hedgehog]

my upgraded ones still do not squeak

 

[MBK]

Good find John, didn't Audi press also supply him with an RS4 with squeaky brakes. You'd think the press fleet would be fettled to be perfect or even slightly better than perfect. When Chris Harris pointed out that a certain Italian super car maker supplied the press with cars that were slightly healthier in the power department and on some super sticky rubber that he got banned from testing the brand! I'd have thought the press departments were more likely to enhance the car than leave anything to chance.

According to evo the RCZ R has Peugeot branded Alcon's but I'm not surprised they have the same issue:

Peugeot RCZ R review, price and specs | evo

Strangely I almost posted up something about how when I'm walking around I've started to notice just how many new cars have brake squeal. Some of the big Mercs seem to be the worst, the occupants of the cars are blissfully unaware due to all the soundproofing.

 

[voorhees]

You'd think the press fleet would be fettled to be perfect or even slightly better than perfect.

You would assume they would supply the best,I have been to companies and seen machines on display in their reception which had glaring faults with them,I think suits do not see the big picture or are not bothered about it.

 

[45bvtc]

my upgraded ones still do not squeak

BLUEY's 47i6 upgrade brakes have Dave, ever so slight, but it wasn't me squealing, and it wasn't my co-pilot, neither.

Amazingly for me the brake squeal occurred at the same mileage (1250) and monthly duration (September to February) as original. And AGAIN, one piston (offside caliper) had worn through the Brembo anti-squeal shim providing metal-to-metal contact.

But since I've pulled my pads and, after some serious research, have applied a different resolution to that applied previously that, at date, is working perfectly for me.

HOWEVER, Dave: I dam communicating with another RS3 owner with serious post 47i6 brake squeal, and he's undertaking serious modification, so watch this space.

MORE INTERESTING however, and for the record, both 'his' and my car had the brake pads fitted by local Audi Technicians incorrectly: two pads fitted WITH disc-rotation, and two pads fitted AGAINST disc-rotation.

I mean, there are bl**dy arrows showing direction...

Note the metal to metal contact at 1250 miles...

But there you go Dave, while I'm ready to give you a £1, I sincerely hope yours do NOT develop the brake squeal experienced by others, and there are others; the RS3 is far to good a piece of machinery to suffer crap like this.

 

[Dave Hedgehog]

my dealer made a total hash of the first attempt, the brakes where terrible

4k miles in now 90% of the performance of the old ones with 10% of the dust, and no squeal (touch wood) with some pretty heavy use as well (i can set the hazzards off )

 

[45bvtc]

Good find John, didn't Audi press also supply him with an RS4 with squeaky brakes. You'd think the press fleet would be fettled to be perfect or even slightly better than perfect. When Chris Harris pointed out that a certain Italian super car maker supplied the press with cars that were slightly healthier in the power department and on some super sticky rubber that he got banned from testing the brand! I'd have thought the press departments were more likely to enhance the car than leave anything to chance.

According to evo the RCZ R has Peugeot branded Alcon's but I'm not surprised they have the same issue:

Peugeot RCZ R review, price and specs | evo

Strangely I almost posted up something about how when I'm walking around I've started to notice just how many new cars have brake squeal. Some of the big Mercs seem to be the worst, the occupants of the cars are blissfully unaware due to all the soundproofing.

This brake squealing lark began way back in the late 70's Mark, when those authoritative dipsticks disposed of asbestos in brake friction materials; since then manufacturers have spent £££'s trying to balance the effectiveness of friction and brake disc materials - this is NOT a new problem, and for the record I was there!

And don't get me started on catalytic converters where the same dipsticks went for semi-precious materials contained with post-combustion pipe work rather than the then already developed lean-burn engines that they're now praising today. Again I was there when we had to apply/comply with EEC 91/441 regulations and fit all four-wheel passenger carrying vehicles with fuel injection and catalytic converters to manage the emissions.

But what about cheap 3-wheel over-steer 'FUN' vehicles, Mark?

Missed opportunities and all that, maybe...

 

[MBK]

You can get the flashing hazards under 'emergency braking' feature turned off, which is a must do for any track time as it really confuses other drivers! A little Fiesta ST I ran on track was a nightmare for doing this, every big stop caused the hazards to go disco!

 

[45bvtc]

my dealer made a total hash of the first attempt, the brakes where terrible

4k miles in now 90% of the performance of the old ones with 10% of the dust, and no squeal (touch wood) with some pretty heavy use as well (i can set the hazzards off )

The 47i6 pads ARE better Dave, I agree with your analysis, but you have to condition them properly, however, once done they do provide better bite and less dust than original.

It's the anti-squeal shim on the backplate for me (and others) that remains the issue.

BUT you don't have to believe me now, it doesn't matter to me, I'm sorted; but if brake squeal does become an issue for you then go pull the pads and look the the piston-wear on the brake pad backplate, and then call me...

 

[45bvtc]

Where did the image go? Let's do it again...

And note that the pads have different part numbers (115 S and 115 K) as they're 'handed' - due to backplate cutouts that cannot be seen here.