Fitting - Bilstein B8's & H&R 25mm Lowering springs

[spiker]

letter in the post - car tax

£330 ! for 12 months - always seems to come just at the time I have shelled out for loads of other stuff. I forget how expensive car tax was on the S3

Shouldnt we get some form of rebate for maintaining older cars - because we are eliminating the carbon footprint cost of a new model ?

Anyway - drive time

 

[AGB-S3]

I think the car is now finished........omg don't even think that ...
these things as psychic ... )

I thought that , till the driver door lock decided to enter a fail mode ,

I run the tracking values from the chart at 25 mm lowered, handles fine , no more high speed 'weaving , which though was the front lifting , turned out to be the rear end set up , and , with the replacement full size , -25mm hr rear spring , I would say its actually better than the short koni+adjuster set up , but , that might of been expected , with full size vari rate spring - retained the koni damper , rear Tyre's look to be
quite even and no ripples on the tread .. so far so good ..

Good to see , you found some out of spec items, in the suspension.steering , had to be really , just needed the right inspection
routine and someone who actually knows what should and should not be .. all engineering is a compromise , the trick is
picking the right combination , eg replacing the aftermarket recirculate valve , with a plastic Audi oem cured 101 issues ,
where as the big brake kit 'they' fitted , improved the stopping ..but caused the car to dive like a dolphin under
hard breaking with standard suspension ... fine ''now'' with coil-over's ...

G,

 

[spiker]

Been for a couple of drives now - 10 mile then another 30 miles today

So first impressions are that the car feels more compliant over rough terrain , turn in has been improved althought the car is still loading up on hard cornering so suspect my next upgrade will be the ARB's - it made such a difference on the last one

Crashing has gone which means the drive is more enjoyable and I am not having to weave around to avoid marks in the road

It feels as though I can feel the compliance in the top mounts now - perhaps a weird thing to say but there seems to more 'give' which actually improves the ride and the feeling of enjoyment. Nothing on the car is poly bushed ( having removed those other top mounts ) and after this I plan to replace bushes in the future with OEM ones. ( Note - I used polybushes throughot on the previous one and it was 'fine - everywhere incl dog bone - just not the top mounts). On balance the standard bushes seem to work better for me

Ok so I am getting older , but have now had and messed with 4 of these beauties now and done at least 250,000 miles in them over the past 20 years - and honestly I dont think these cars suit being polybushed unless you plan to put them on a track - if you dont I dont think you need to - just my thoughts for what they are worth

If anything the car feels too low - I do feel everything now - I expected the dampers to be a bit more delayed but they are very responsive to the road surface so thats going to get used to but in a good way. Car feels more planted - I know people use this expression a lot , me too but I think I get what that really means now - there doesnt appear to be any lift anymore even on the rougher surfaces and it feels as though I am getting maximu grip from the new tyres

Car feels tight - fast and fun to drive again - just how it should have been when I picked it up

So car handles and looks better - was it all worth it ? looking back I think I would have done some things differently

Next up - lessons learned

 

[spiker]

I think the car is now finished........omg don't even think that ...
these things as psychic ... )

Yes - I meant this part of it is finished , the car will never be finished

 

[hydro s3]

Sounds like you are really enjoying the car at the minute. Always good when that happens

 

[spiker]

Lessons Learned then:

• Buy as many ancilliary components as possible sale or return from Audi as you never know what will need replacing
• Buy longer bolts for the tie bar at the back as the original ones arent long enough to reuse
• Dont use polybush the top mounts
• let me repeat that DONT POLYBUSH THE TOP MOUNTS (imho)
• Check the finish of the springs before fitting
• Dont assume that work carried out by a garage before taking ownership of a car was done correctly
• Consider Eibach next time ( strongly )
• Dont lower the car any more than 25mm - 25mm is plenty for standard road use
• Do buy tyres from Black Circles and shop around for parts - DPM were much cheaper
• Dont ever use that garage in Wales again
• Do take the extra time and expense to do the ARBS at the same time
• If you are going to replace springs and dampers you may as well change track rods , check ball joints etc
• Dont be afraid to have a go at stuff yourself but dont expect everything to go perfectly - learn from the experience

Loving being back behind the wheel - car is a lot of fun now - glad I did this and the upgrade was definitely worth it

Before anyone elses buys from that garage feel free to ask me what they did/said on pm

 

[spiker]

Had the geometry of the car properly looked at over the weekend using a frame - string and some expensive calipers
Spent the day just looking at camber and toe front and rear

Left Front
Camber originally -0.54 now -0.76
Toe originally +1.9 (!) now -0.11

Right front
Camber originally -0.46
Toe originally +3.1 ( !!) now -0.09

Feels Perfect on the front - nice straight line and sharp turn in

Left Rear
Camber originally -1.25 now -1.1
Toe originally -6.6 now -6.6 (!!)

Right Rear
Camber originally -1.04 now -1.1
Toe originally -4.6 now now -4.6 (!!)

So as thought I do need another sdjustable tie bar for the back as I would rather have a little less camber and more parallel toe

Second time I am going down the route of top and bottom adjustable arms - has anyone ever managed to get toe and camber on the rear to more acceptable levels with just one ? - I dont think its doable

Has anyone managed it ?

 

[spiker]

Just before lockdown I decided to take the car to see a man with the blocks of wood and string - to properly sort the aligment

We put a frame around the car on the front and back bumper and connected the frames up with string ( I am sure some of you on here already know about this but I had not seen this done before ) then using calipers measured the toe settings and adjusted them precisely for each wheel and also checked camber and adjusted as much as was possible ( as second set of tie bars not fitted yet )

This took about 2 hours , making minor adjustments and then re-measuring

Took the car for a drive afterwards and it tracked perfectly straight . I had never had chance to do this before but highly recommend it as the accuracy was perfect.

I have now bought another set of tie bars so I can do the bottom set too and sort out the rear camber and then abnother trip back to the frame and string game - all good fun

Having had the bilsteins and H&R 's for a couple of months now they have settled and I am really happy with the improvements to the ride and handling over stock

Messing about with cars is such fun

 

[hydro s3]

Never heard of that string way before mate.

 

[AGB-S3]

You've been framed -)

Assume one of the new all wheel lazer tracking set up's , produce suitable results

I had a problem. finding some one who would look at the car, yes we do 4x4 ..then one glimpse of the s3 badge and then ..
actually , we don't ... luckily , there is one close by in neston now , saves the run to north wales

G..

 

[spiker]

You've been framed -)

G..

we used calipers to get it down to milimeter differences - it sounds rudimentary but it was very accurate

Basically 2 aliminium poles - one each end of the car resting on the bodywork with padded brackets , connected front to back with string

Made sure the shape was a true rectangle first of all and then made minor adjustments to each side of the tracking until the toe and camber were where we wanted it to be - wish I had taken a pic - I will next time

 

[spiker]

I have had the second set of adjustable wishbones sat in the garage for a while now , I am also planning to purchase some upgraded arbs and then do all the work at the same time. Last time I did this was 2008 and I bought 22/19 F/R neuspeeds with Koni FSD

Checking out DPM/others it seems that the diameter of the ARB's seems to have gone up somewhat - 25/21 26/24 etc

Upgrading the standards back then to 22/19 I remember made a huge difference , so not sure If I should go with what I know or go thicker ?
Now running the the Bilsteins/H&R's as per my thread - do these suit a thicker setup ?

Should I go H&R arbs too ?

Anyone offer any advice here , the car is for spirited road use mainly ( not track ) and I don't want to over do it

 

[hydro s3]

I've got a r32 rear arb to go on when the suspension is getting done. I've heard that helps to stiffen it up a bit

 

[S3AMJ]

I’ve done the rear R32 ARB 19mm and noticed a dramatic difference! Still got the OEM 19mm front, until I get some track use of the car I may change this for a 22mm on the front but from mucho research this just makes the cars characteristics similar to OEM which what we try to avoid.


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[Brad1011]

I’ll soon know on the 1st of July I’ve got 24mm rear and did have stock 19mm on the front and enjoyed it last year alot better than stock but felt abit too much oversteer so I’m trying out a 21mm Audi TT v6 roadster front anti roll bar to see if the slight 2mm will even it out a tad… we’ll see


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[spiker]

I’ll soon know on the 1st of July I’ve got 24mm rear and did have stock 19mm on the front and enjoyed it last year alot better than stock but felt abit too much oversteer so I’m trying out a 21mm Audi TT v6 roadster front anti roll bar to see if the slight 2mm will even it out a tad… we’ll see


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i would be interested to hear back on this

 

[spiker]

Have just bought the ARBS
Update to follow

 

[spiker]

Just looking back at my previous post I should have updated this before
The second set of adjustable bars are fitted now - both top and bottom just as on my previous S3
Rear Toe all over the place and lots of oversteer - my man with the strings is moving house

I rang a few tyre garages about alignment and they don't fill me with confidence and suggest the 'stock' settings will be fine , they program the machine and it offers the settings but surely each vehicle is different once you start altering the suspension and geometry ?

I don't want to just pay for someone to just set the standard settings. Perhaps some negative toe to be expected along with the change in camber but I would hope that having adjustments top and bottom now will sort out the toe -4.6. and -6.6

Is giving the car to a tyre garage and having them setup the car to the 'stock settings' for an S3 good enough ? - surely there is a better option

I am near Rugby in the midlands - any suggestions on where I can have the car properly set up whilst I wait for string man ?

 

[Ian W]

You've been framed -)

Assume one of the new all wheel lazer tracking set up's , produce suitable results

I had a problem. finding some one who would look at the car, yes we do 4x4 ..then one glimpse of the s3 badge and then ..
actually , we don't ... luckily , there is one close by in neston now , saves the run to north wales

G..

Which garage in Neston will do laser alignment on the S3 mate?

 

[Brad1011]

I’d try and find a proper motorsport company to set it all up if you want someone who knows what they’re doing exactly


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[Brad1011]

Went snetterton couple months back the v6 front anti roll bar seemed to of done the job I didn’t get much time out as my clutch was slipping and other problems the real tell tail was brands but didn’t manage to get there either so can’t really say wether it’s worth doing, defiantly a lot less floaty on the front end


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[spiker]

Eibach 26/24 mm ARBS have been fitted and it has transformed the handling as I had expected ( hoped it would )

On a previous S3 I had 22/19 neuspeed and to be honest it seems to me that just upgrading the standard ones makes such a difference that I probably didnt need to go that big on these new ones as I dont think theres that much in it - well not based on how I drive anyway . I still think though that changing stock arbs on the S3 8L is one of those jobs that does have s big impact on handling

Sadly I still have the issues with the rear toe - the 2nd set of adjustable wishbones are fitted but the garage were unable to sort this out

Just a note of caution with the 26mm front there is not a lot of room left between the bar and the steering column

I also have a creaking noise from the rear which starts happening later on in a journey . Mainly at low speed as i accelerate off or come to to stop , if sounds like a hard rubber noise coming from just the rear offside. Looks like the white paste was used by the garage and they insisted they filled the bushes with the supplied stuff but the noise is there still after a couple of hundred miles

My thoughts are I either need to take them off and fill them with lithium grease , but I dont even know if it is the bush making the noise. Could the extra weight of the bar be putting more stress on the bracket ? Could it be the droplinks that need replacing ?

Difficult to know without getting it on a ramp so I will have to wait until I can get it looked at again as the garage that fitted them is a couple of hours away from me. Might be easier to take it to my local subaru garage that service the family car

Seems the more I do to try and improve the car , the more issues I find and have to solve just like with the other S3's from the past *sigh*

Anyone tried getting access to the bushes to regrease them on their drive using a trolley jack ?- is it do-able by yourself or does it really need a ramp ?

2 photos - first one is the rear nearside ( you can see both bolts ) , second picture is the rear offside ( only 1 bolt ) and where i think the noise is coming from

What stands out to me is there seems to be a fair bit of corosion - does this look like a concern ? I had a look at 7zap and i dont see a replacement plate item the bracket looks like it part of the chassis

Lots of thoughts , issues and questions - anyone able to offer advice here before I go spending more money ?

 

[Brad1011]

Hi mate I have these roll bars but only fitted the rear, I also had the squeak problem, it went away eventually don’t know how long it took but it was extremely annoying especially when I don’t have any rear seats, give it time but if it does carry on just jack it up take off the back box and it’s there in front of you, I don’t do a lot of miles in it either so try wearing them in corner harder ??


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[Brad1011]

Does it not feel unpleasant to drive on the road with those size bars or have I just got awful cheap coilies?


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[spiker]

Hi mate I have these roll bars but only fitted the rear, I also had the squeak problem, it went away eventually don’t know how long it took but it was extremely annoying especially when I don’t have any rear seats, give it time but if it does carry on just jack it up take off the back box and it’s there in front of you, I don’t do a lot of miles in it either so try wearing them in corner harder ??


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Thanks for the reassurance - perhaps I will give it a few more miles first , but what about the corrosion - does it look a major issue ?

 

[spiker]

Does it not feel unpleasant to drive on the road with those size bars or have I just got awful cheap coilies?


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Not at all , they further improve the setup up , a lot less roll into corners , flatter and without any noticeable reduction in ride comfort - really pleased with them overall just the nagging issues of the toe and squeaking making me less than super enthusistic

the h&r setup with bilsteins is not crashy or harsh to ride , the ride is compliant . you will get the occasional bump in pot holes but nothing as bad as I used to have with the worn out stock setup. I also had the front wishbones changed before I started all this too which I would recommend

I might do a 'if i started this all again what would i do differently' post at some point , but in terms of the equipment bought I dont have any reservations so far

 

[Brad1011]

Thanks for the reassurance - perhaps I will give it a few more miles first , but what about the corrosion - does it look a major issue ?

Spend sometime with a wire brush on it and spray some wax oil ?


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[spiker]

sure - that could be a plan assuming i am not trying to wax oil over something thats going to fail

 

[spiker]

Finally had chance to have the car properly set up - I had some issues with the rear toe after all the upgrades but its been difficult getting it sorted with other things going on in life

I visited a place I knew well in the south west but they were unable to solve this even with top and bottom adjustable arms and I had similar experiences with a couple of others - I just think they were not geared up for this kind of thing

Seems I just needed the right garage to set this up - they are local and look after my other car. After an hour or so they had it sorted and the rear toe in is all but gone
I know many people had said this H&R /bilstein setup is good - it really is , especially when combined with 26/24 ARBS and suprisingly not too harsh to drive - car feels more like a go-kart now . If only Audi had this setup from factory its such a major difference to the car

So handling now done ( for now ) - on to the next project playing with the engine , I wonder how much power I am down on a 20 year old S3 ( 36000 miles only from new ) having made no changes to it apart from a cut off valve. Bound to be some leaks in the system

 

[lucasio1999]

I have read thru your posts. and noticed u said u would not get poly bushings. especiallythe top onces. what are the "top" onces. and would u go for poly any other spots?
if not why or why not?

 

[Cole Jennifer]

I have an issue with my left offside damper / top mount - I have a knocking sound ( tw tyres seem to think it relates to a problem with the fitting of the damper or the mount itself. Tracking the car has proven pointless and it immediately goes out again and I have lost the inside tread on the front NS too

Bottom line is that if I am having to pay for investigation / strip down and then new dampers/mounts etc I may as well go ahead with the planned upgrade to B8's and H&R springs which was the ultimate plan

Does anyone have any recommendations for a suitable garage to fit these if I/they supply them ?

I have in the past used Awesome and Badger for work ( 10 + years ago ) but would be interested in anyones elses suggestions - recommendations

I am based in the midlands

Or is anyone here on the forums interested in doing the paid work to fit dampers/springs and possibly replace the top mounts

Its a 2003 S3 8L

Excellent write up mate. Looks really well and does fill the wheel arch good. Will definitely help out when I come to do mine as that is the same set up I want.