Help with Border guttering issue, One for the home owners here

[NDK2013]

Hi There,

I have a complaint from from next door saying I am wrongly using his down pipe from his garage for my water buts.

His garage backs onto my front garden as seen in pics, he does not have access to it as i live on the end of the road, he had not noticed for two years already. only because he was cleaning his side of the guttering.

My question is, is the down pipe both ours as it goes onto my land and the man hole cover for the garage is in my garden also? I understand the gutter must be his but the down pipe also???

Help and advice would be great as it seems the old man does not believe in saving water

Thanks

Kitt

Ps the right hand side of the fence is the start of my rear garden.









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[WOLF]

So the downpipe is on his land and the diverter is going over the fence into your garden?

 

[NDK2013]

no the grass and border is mine, the down pipe goes into my grass. but the garage is his

 

[NDK2013]

http://[URL=http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/nathankitt/media/IMG_0203_zpsb9deee61.jpg.html][/URL]

All this is mine, the grass and over the fence, just the garage is his

 

[Lavis89]

He's moaning at you for that? so you're saving a bit of water... which would other wise just be getting dumped into your garden? some people are really pathetic

 

[leegsi]

Looks like his roof is over hanging into your garden so if you wanted to be funny get him to remove that at the same time as you remove the water butt take off

 

[Ghost]

The question and answer is this…

If that down pipe is broken, who will pay to fix it?

who pays to fix it, is whose pipe it is.

 

[WOLF]

Ok understand now,his downpipe is in your garden so you've decided to divert/save water.......
dont realy see what problem he's got!

if he gets shirty tell him to get his downppe off your land!

 

[Pulp84]

I have the same issue almost as per above picture!

The garage on my picture is part of three legal titles (its three garages split between three houses). The gutter serves all three and the drain pipe goes through my land and diverts in to my waste system!

When I bought my house three years ago (new at the time) the legal opinion was that the three title holders were responsible for the pipes up keep etc but had not access rights to it. So although its not mine and I can not hang things on the brick work (like a water butt or clothes line), its irrelevant because the title holder can not legally access the edge of their title. In short the opinion was if the pipe enters your land and your water system you can access what comes down the pipe. I can not see how he could enforce or challenge this without taking you to court. But to go to court you need to prove either loss of property or value etc - criminal damage maybe but a drain pipe is easily converted back to its original position after removing a water butt. Again, can not see the loss to the other title holder.

Not sure what the issue is as the water is going down the drain any way. Suspect its more about you weren't polite and didn't ask permission rather than you taking the water / using his pipe.

 

[hades-]

id say its his
but tell him to **** off.

 

[NDK2013]

He said to me even if I asked he would not of said yes. And could not even work out how it worked because it was to high???

Not sure with his lack of common sense to how gravity works would aid him taking us to court. was just wondering to where we stood legally. So thoughts were just leave it as it is?

 

[hades-]

leave it as is

and he he decides to take it further and wins all you do is take it off and put a new part in place half hours job.

 

[hades-]

infact it put a white part in further down with pipe comeing out the side he might not notice.

 

[NDK2013]

ok well I had to cut into pipe the but the diverter in, Shell I just replace the down pipe and put the diverter valve at the top then no damage so to speak. just taken the water?

 

[Pulp84]

Its not his water. Secondly at worst its criminal damage but have you actually damaged it and would it be in the public's interest to prosecute? Its easily repaired.

Im having an issue at the moment with shared boundary and a housing association tenant and can tell you no one is intrested in these boundary issues unless you build on someone elses land. Police certainly wont be interested. He could go down legal route but again most he could do is a snotty legal letter. It would cost him serious £££. Solicitors have more intresting and lucrative cases to work on. This isn't one of those.....carry on as you are. He can't trespass on your land to sort it out either so don't be bullied.

 

[Delboi]

Tell him, to go forth and procreate with himself, or remove the offending device that helps save the environment. then hand the ***** a percentage of your waste water bill for the run off that you pay for each month.

Failing that lift the manhole cover and inject expanding foam in the drain pipe so HIS gutters overflow and make his garage walls nice and damp.

 

[NDK2013]

Tell him, to go forth and procreate with himself, or remove the offending device that helps save the environment. then hand the ***** a percentage of your waste water bill for the run off that you pay for each month.

Failing that lift the manhole cover and inject expanding foam in the drain pipe so HIS gutters overflow and make his garage walls nice and damp.

Thanks guys great help. I might even save this on my iPad so next time I see him I can just hand him this for him to read. Because I must admit I have loved the response. I almost can't wait to see him next with all this ammo. Thank you guys

 

[jdp1962]

I suspect that if either you or the neighbour were to seek advice from your conveyancing solicitor, you would discover that this situation is covered off in the respective site plans that form part of the titles of the properties, by way of an "easement". An easement is a clause that recognises and accommodates the necessity for fixtures or fittings from one property to occupy the space of another.

In your case, the easement would provide for the guttering and downpipe that belong to and serve the neighbour's garage to occupy space in your property. Of course, you also benefit from the easement because the drainage from the neighbour's garage would otherwise discharge onto your lawn.

On first reading, it seems your neighbour is acting unreasonably, but in a perfect world, you should have had a conversation with him before installing the diverter. I realise he's saying now that he would have refused if you had done so, but that is probably just him being petulant after the event.

These situations are always difficult but they're rarely made better by one person trying to match the other person's unreasonableness. You need to stay civil and use reason and logic to persuade him that there is no need for him to have the hump or object to the diverter being there.

 

[Ghost]

These situations are always difficult but they're rarely made better by one person trying to match the other person's unreasonableness. You need to stay civil and use reason and logic to persuade him that there is no need for him to have the hump or object to the diverter being there.

If you’d like to keep using the down pipe for your water butts, Id be polite and try to come to some arrangement, where you maybe happy to pay if any repair was needed. (but only to the down pipe)

He just needs to remember, he may need to come on your land to do any maintenance to his roof in the future.

 

[NDK2013]

Yeah I want to keep it civil but he just boiled my blood with his attitude against it like i was affecting him personally, didnt mean any harm, I would not be bothered if it was me as long as would be put right if/when they left.

 

[NDK2013]

The question and answer is this…

If that down pipe is broken, who will pay to fix it?

who pays to fix it, is whose pipe it is.

This is a great question, How do I know who's pipe it is and how do I know who would be the person to repair it? As it's my land?

 

[jdp1962]

This is a great question, How do I know who's pipe it is and how do I know who would be the person to repair it? As it's my land?

The question who owns the pipe goes back to my point about the site plans, boundaries and easements etc. It's a bit like the situation with who has responsibility for fences between adjoining gardens. Some times, these htings are recognised formally within the property titles, other times it is not. It is an imperfect situation. Here, though, ownership doesn't seem to be in dispute, because you and the neighbour both seem to agree that he owns the pipe. Rather, the dispute is about whether you can modify and/or manipulate the pipe for your own use. That has to be agreed by negotiation between the two of you.

As to who should fix the pipe if broken, that would depend on how it came to be broken. If it deteriorated through age or adverse conditions, then the neighbour, as owner, has strict liability to pay, but given the shared benefit, convention suggests the fairest thing to do is to share the cost. If it was broken as a result of something you did to it, then it's reasonable that you should pay to repair it.

 

[NDK2013]

The question who owns the pipe goes back to my point about the site plans, boundaries and easements etc. It's a bit like the situation with who has responsibility for fences between adjoining gardens. Some times, these htings are recognised formally within the property titles, other times it is not. It is an imperfect situation. Here, though, ownership doesn't seem to be in dispute, because you and the neighbour both seem to agree that he owns the pipe. Rather, the dispute is about whether you can modify and/or manipulate the pipe for your own use. That has to be agreed by negotiation between the two of you.

As to who should fix the pipe if broken, that would depend on how it came to be broken. If it deteriorated through age or adverse conditions, then the neighbour, as owner, has strict liability to pay, but given the shared benefit, convention suggests the fairest thing to do is to share the cost. If it was broken as a result of something you did to it, then it's reasonable that you should pay to repair it.

Thanks,

As said if I broke it I would fix it of course I would, If storm say broke it then I would suggest that he would pay for it, I'm going to see what the deeds say tonight and go from there, Many thanks

 

[Cyrix]

Just put it back to how it was.........then add another downpipe into the guttering behind the garage where he is unable to see it

To be honest things like this really annoy me, do people really have so little going on in thier lives that they have to moan about trivial things like this.

 

[NDK2013]

Just put it back to how it was.........then add another downpipe into the guttering behind the garage where he is unable to see it

To be honest things like this really annoy me, do people really have so little going on in thier lives that they have to moan about trivial things like this.

Tell me about it!! What is the ****** problem, just awaiting from the house builders to advise on best thing to do

 

[NDK2013]

Little update, looks like I don't have a leg to stand on. Can't even say get off my land.

I can advise that the downpipe to which you refer is attached to the garage allocated to Plot 66 of the Hayfields development (no. 109) and is consequently maintainable, should this be necessary, by the owner of that property.

The Transfers for our properties grant all residents the right, subject to giving reasonable notice and rectifying any damage caused in so doing, to enter adjoining properties for the purpose of maintaining any part of their own dwelling, garage, fences etc

 

[Crazyfool]

I suspect that if either you or the neighbour were to seek advice from your conveyancing solicitor, you would discover that this situation is covered off in the respective site plans that form part of the titles of the properties, by way of an "easement". An easement is a clause that recognises and accommodates the necessity for fixtures or fittings from one property to occupy the space of another.

In your case, the easement would provide for the guttering and downpipe that belong to and serve the neighbour's garage to occupy space in your property. Of course, you also benefit from the easement because the drainage from the neighbour's garage would otherwise discharge onto your lawn.

On first reading, it seems your neighbour is acting unreasonably, but in a perfect world, you should have had a conversation with him before installing the diverter. I realise he's saying now that he would have refused if you had done so, but that is probably just him being petulant after the event.

These situations are always difficult but they're rarely made better by one person trying to match the other person's unreasonableness. You need to stay civil and use reason and logic to persuade him that there is no need for him to have the hump or object to the diverter being there.

I was going to say a similar thing. Ultimately the garage roof overhang, the guttering and down pipe belongs to him. i.e. if it's broken, he is responsible for repairing it. In order to carry out this work, he would need a wayleave agreement in order to access your land. This is something the developer would have had to consider when they were designing the development.

So ultimately you shouldn't have connected to his downpipe without his permission, but it makes sense to do what you did and is really trivial.

Update: I've just read your post above. It makes sense based on my comments

 

[NDK2013]

I was going to say a similar thing. Ultimately the garage roof overhang, the guttering and down pipe belongs to him. i.e. if it's broken, he is responsible for repairing it. In order to carry out this work, he would need a wayleave agreement in order to access your land. This is something the developer would have had to consider when they were designing the development.

So ultimately you shouldn't have connected to his downpipe without his permission, but it makes sense to do what you did and is really trivial.

Update: I've just read your post above. It makes sense based on my comments

Yes that is true. I have just brought a new down pipe for £6 and just to go without. Can't be ***** with the trouble. I brought a little cutter to go along the fence that runs into the butt.

 

[AU11 ALS]

I'd recommend leaving as is but agreeing that if you move you will replace on a like for like basis

 

[consilio]

Just put it back to how it was.........then add another downpipe into the guttering behind the garage where he is unable to see it

I was just about to suggest the exact same thing. It keeps things amicable with your neighbour (nothing worse than falling out with them) and also keeps your butt nice and full