How would a new engine effect value?

[wab172uk]

Following on from a previously posted thread.

Had engine issues. Cost to find the fault ...... £2400. Fault found. Cracked Piston and something with the rings.

It now needs a new engine. Total cost £13,000 !!!!!

So now I'm hoping Audi are going to provide a new engine, as otherwise I'll have to write the car off.

2 Questions to those who may know.

1) Would my insurance pay up on such an issue? Don't want to call them just yet, as awaiting Audi's response.

2) How would a new engine effect the value? I'm of the opinion it'll devalue the car, as it's got a brand new engine, but the rest of the car has done 32,000 miles. Selling privately or to a garage (not Audi) I would have to explain why it had a new engine. And would I be believed it was a fault and not how it had been treated / driven. As it could be assumed It'd been modified or tracked in it's life. Neither of which has happened.

Garage have put in a claim to Audi, and are confident Audi will stump up a new engine. But nothing in life is certain.

If it's going to knock thousands off the value of my car, I'm going to be stuck with it.

Opinions / thoughts?

 

[RichardT]

There is no chance that your insurance would cover this unless the damage had been caused somehow in an accident.
Presumably it’s out of warranty? If so it’s lower than average mileage, so I would say that Audi should feel some liability, but don’t bet on it.

 

[msdmjb]

Bu&&er, given it is stock I would be expecting Audi to "help".
It will still cost you something I am sure but nowhere near the figures you suggested, personally I would take it as a good thing if I were buying the car as it is a brand new OE engine supplied and fitted by the manufacturer. Goes something like this............Sir, i have two cars for sale same age same mileage, engine was replaced on one by the manufacturer due to a rare component failure so has actually done half the mileage of the other, which one would you like to buy?

Insurance (assuming you mean the mandatory standard car insurance) will not pay out.
These are the scenarios where a solid Audi service history will lubricate the process, imagine if it had previously been identified as modified!
If you do have to keep it for a few years more then not a lot of sympathy as an S3 is a solid motor, once it gets to a certain age imo things like this have a lesser effect..............
Mine is 5years old, manual, stage1 with 35k miles and still goes like the clappers.........not a hardship owning it at all.

 

[AlS3BE]

If it’s a new engine supplied and fitted by Audi I can’t see why it would affect the value.
All the Audi systems would be updated to match the new engine numbers to the vin so on that front it no different to having the factory engine with a factory car.
Not even sure if you need to mention it if you were selling outside the Audi network as they won’t have the means to figure it out. Not saying you should be dishonest about it. In some ways it’s a good thing for a buyer but some might not like it thinking it’s had a hard life. I personally would take it as a good thing especially if you are selling right after the new engine.

Insurance won’t do anything about it unless you hit something like a speed ramp or pothole and crack the sump or something catastrophic like that.

 

[ZipZap01]

Insurance won't be interested. They will only cover accident damage, fire or theft.

You could try pushing audi for a goodwill contribution, but they don't give in easily from what I have read here and elsewhere.

I wouldn't expect an engine replacement to devalue the car if done by a franchised dealer. It is, after all a factory certified unit fitted by franchised techs.

However, even a 3rd party engine replacement shouldn't devalue the car that much. This may be a much cheaper option. Low mileage S3 engines are available for £1500 or thereabouts, so with fitting you should be able to a used replacement installed for £10k less than what audi would charge you. While there may be some devaluation, it's not going to be £10k.

Worth speaking to an independent specialist for advice.

 

[wab172uk]

Bu&&er, given it is stock I would be expecting Audi to "help".
It will still cost you something I am sure but nowhere near the figures you suggested, personally I would take it as a good thing if I were buying the car as it is a brand new OE engine supplied and fitted by the manufacturer. Goes something like this............Sir, i have two cars for sale same age same mileage, engine was replaced on one by the manufacturer due to a rare component failure so has actually done half the mileage of the other, which one would you like to buy?

When you put it like that ........ I suppose most would chose the newer engine. My thoughts were if people think it had a hard life due to an engine needing replacing, the rest of the car could be assumed to be very tired too.

And yes, it's no real hardship keeping the car for another few years. Great car, and one of the best cars I've owned in term of looks, speed, build quality, and all round good car.

I was thinking of swapping it anyway for a new Fiesta ST. Had a test drive booked for this Saturday morning, with the intention of placing an order if I liked it. But those plans may have to be on hold for now. At least until I know what the outcome is with Audi.

 

[TYb]

I would probably be one of the people avoiding purchasing your car for the reasons you have stated, has blown because it’s been ragged, what’s next to fail etc?

But if people know you and are enthusiasts then I don’t see it being an issue.

 

[Adam14]

Regardless of warranty I'm not sure on the age of the car, but surely sale of goods act could be argued here? An engine breaking after 32,000 miles to me would imply the engine/part has not lasted a reasonable amount of time and if you can prove the car has been serviced properly and on time, then it would further support this claim.

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[Damo S]

Are there any companies around that can recondition these engines, or provide a reconditioned short block? I don't know if its possible given the design which maybe too complicated.

 

[wab172uk]

I would probably be one of the people avoiding purchasing your car for the reasons you have stated, has blown because it’s been ragged, what’s next to fail etc?

But if people know you and are enthusiasts then I don’t see it being an issue.

That's what I'm worried about. Stuck with a car no one wants.

 

[wab172uk]

Regardless of warranty I'm not sure on the age of the car, but surely sale of goods act could be argued here? An engine breaking after 32,000 miles to me would imply the engine/part has not lasted a reasonable amount of time and if you can prove the car has been serviced properly and on time, then it would further support this claim.

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2015. Full Audi service stamps. Was last serviced in March. Only covered a few hundred miles since it's service.

Garage are confident Audi will replace the engine at their cost. But confidence is one thing .........

Plus, I doubt Audi have spare engines laying around. Aren't all cars built to just in time stock? Could be weeks before a new engine is shipped.

Are there any differences in engines for manual cars V DSG cars? As they haven't made a manual S3 for a while, will they have an engine that'll fit?

If they have an engine laying around, I hope it's the more powerful 310 bhp version.

 

[AlS3BE]

2015. Full Audi service stamps. Was last serviced in March. Only covered a few hundred miles since it's service.

Garage are confident Audi will replace the engine at their cost. But confidence is one thing .........

Plus, I doubt Audi have spare engines laying around. Aren't all cars built to just in time stock? Could be weeks before a new engine is shipped.

Are there any differences in engines for manual cars V DSG cars? As they haven't made a manual S3 for a while, will they have an engine that'll fit?

If they have an engine laying around, I hope it's the more powerful 310 bhp version.

Think the engines are the same but the map on the ecu is different. Doesn’t make sense for Audi from a manufacturing point of view to build so many variants of the same engine. It will probably be the same engine as the normal 2.0(golf gti) but with a different turbo.
I remember reading when I had my a6 that the 3.0tdi with 212ps was exactly the same as the 272ps, someone did a comparison of the parts for the engine/turbo. The only difference was the ecu between the cars. When remapped both cars achieved the same power.

 

[Trumpsz]

2015. Full Audi service stamps. Was last serviced in March. Only covered a few hundred miles since it's service.

Garage are confident Audi will replace the engine at their cost. But confidence is one thing .........

Plus, I doubt Audi have spare engines laying around. Aren't all cars built to just in time stock? Could be weeks before a new engine is shipped.

Are there any differences in engines for manual cars V DSG cars? As they haven't made a manual S3 for a while, will they have an engine that'll fit?

If they have an engine laying around, I hope it's the more powerful 310 bhp version.

when my 16 plate s3 blew the engine after only 1 week of ownership ! it took roughly 2 weeks for me to get my car back which was quiet quick in my eyes and as for an engine i doubt you will get a full engine ready to put in you will most likely get a short block which is just the main block with pistons and a crankshaft in it the rest of the engine ie head,manifols,turbo will be swapped over from the old engine

 

[TYb]

That's what I'm worried about. Stuck with a car no one wants.

Just be transparent, this forum will be a good place to sell.

 

[wab172uk]

when my 16 plate s3 blew the engine after only 1 week of ownership ! it took roughly 2 weeks for me to get my car back which was quiet quick in my eyes and as for an engine i doubt you will get a full engine ready to put in you will most likely get a short block which is just the main block with pistons and a crankshaft in it the rest of the engine ie head,manifols,turbo will be swapped over from the old engine

You're probably right about that.

 

[Flying Scotsman]

You mam also get an Audi factory rebuilt engine. That was what I got on a VW Jetta with only three thousand miles on it...reason piston slap

 

[wab172uk]

You mam also get an Audi factory rebuilt engine. That was what I got on a VW Jetta with only three thousand miles on it...reason piston slap

It better not be a rebuilt engine. Had a look to dealers today. Will post some pics later. I asked if new engine or new block. Said brand new engine, turbo the lot. Comes as a unit. £8,000 the engine. Rest is for Labour to fit it. Plus what was already spent identifying the problem.

 

[RichardT]

From what you say, looks like you will get a new engine. But if they decided to use a reconditioned unit I don’t think there’s anything you could do about it and it would be no different to just actually fixing your engine. All they have to do is get your car going again. And although they may be morally obliged to fix your car, and in the long term may well be good for their image, they may not legally have to do anything.

 

[wab172uk]

The offending Piston

Some other photos of a dead engine

 

[Marky-s3]

I'd sooner have your car with a nice new engine than 1 with 32k on

 

[OCDaveS4]

Glad for you that they seem to be doing the right thing.......hope it all ends well

 

[wab172uk]

Glad for you that they seem to be doing the right thing.......hope it all ends well

The Dealers been great. But it could all turn to S**t if Audi say "Nine".

I'm then looking at a £2400 bill for what they've done already. Plus no doubt another bill to put it all back together again (broken) unless I buy a new / used engine somewhere. Then pay for the cost of installation.

Should find out tomorrow. Hopefully it's all good.

 

[Damo S]

Hoping for good news

 

[wab172uk]

The verdict is in. ................

Faulty injector caused the piston to disintegrate.

The full bill has been worked out. Labour for identifying the fault. Replacement engine. Cost for installing the replacement engine. Total bill, an eye watering £18,340 !!!!

Thankfully, Audi have agreed to supply a brand new engine. But won't pay for installation, as the car is out of warranty. Asked the dealer to go back to Audi as I tried to renew, but as it was within 30 days of expiry date, it wouldn't let me. Audi have come back with a reduced bill of £2808.

I've agreed, reluctantly, but I need the work doing. Better to pay £2808 than to write the car off and the total cost is more than the trade in value.

Engine on back order, so could be weeks before a new engine is shipped. Picking up a Q2 tonight as loan car.

 

[AlS3BE]

That’s not too bad. Still a sore one though.
You would have thought the sensors in the car would have picked up faulty injectors as the AFR would be so far out then ecu should have retarded timing etc to compensate.
Car would have drove for ages like a bag of nails.

 

[Ormesome]

Mate you will have to explain the whole "couldnt renew warranty becuase you were within 30days of expiration". Thats exactly what you are supposed to do. Audi send you a reminder at the 30day point that the warranty is about to expire, regardless if you are at the end of the normal 3rd year or 4th year exntended warranty. You then add the 4th or 5th year of warranty. You can even add the 5th year even if you didnt have the 4th year but this would be at a higher cost as they offer discount to renew if still in warranty. I would take issue with that and push it if you were not allowed to renew.

Enjoy the Q2. Hope you get a nice one. The boggo standard ones are pants!!

 

[OCDaveS4]

Sorry to hear that they wouldn't cover the entire cost - you sure it isnt worth escalating it ?? Could have been worse I suppose though

 

[Adam14]

Ouch as others have said, but thankfully not having to shell out the full £18k, as mentioned above I had a fully basic Q2 as a courtesy car and it was awful. Wasn't even trying to compare to the S5, just wasn't a enjoyable car.

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[Damo S]

That’s not too bad. Still a sore one though.
You would have thought the sensors in the car would have picked up faulty injectors as the AFR would be so far out then ecu should have retarded timing etc to compensate.
Car would have drove for ages like a bag of nails.

It didnt flag anything up on mine with a knackered camshaft until I went digging in the logs and found the misfires. Never bought up an error code. The ecu is too clever for its own good to the detriment of other components, i.e. doing its best to make the engine run despite there being an obvious problem. I check the misfire logs several times a week now since then. Whether a faulty injector would register a misfire I dont know. To me it seems very poor design to have the ECU fudge over problems and not let you know about it when something potentially damaging is occurring.

 

[wab172uk]

Sorry to hear that they wouldn't cover the entire cost - you sure it isnt worth escalating it ?? Could have been worse I suppose though

I suppose I could push, but it probably wouldn't get me anywhere. Audi did reduce by £936 and said best offer is £2808.

I'll just have to chalk it up as one of those things in life. I've been driving for 28 years, and this is the first major issue I've had. Bitter (and expensice) pill to swallow. But it could have been worse. Much worse.

I just need to decide whether to sell it once it's fixed, or keep it for a year or so. It will have a brand new engine in it after all. To sell now, it's worth to me £2808 (trade-in) less than it was 2 weeks ago.

 

[wab172uk]

Ouch as others have said, but thankfully not having to shell out the full £18k, as mentioned above I had a fully basic Q2 as a courtesy car and it was awful. Wasn't even trying to compare to the S5, just wasn't a enjoyable car.

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Yeah, I'd have preferred an A3 or A4. But, it's a car, so can't complain too much.

 

[AlS3BE]

It didnt flag anything up on mine with a knackered camshaft until I went digging in the logs and found the misfires. Never bought up an error code. The ecu is too clever for its own good to the detriment of other components, i.e. doing its best to make the engine run despite there being an obvious problem. I check the misfire logs several times a week now since then. Whether a faulty injector would register a misfire I dont know. To me it seems very poor design to have the ECU fudge over problems and not let you know about it when something potentially damaging is occurring.

Faulty injector should have registered a lean or rich burn and ecu should have tried to compensate. Too lean and it gets too hot and melts pistons, too rich and you get bore wash which isn’t good for piston/rings either. Both could have caused a misfire which ecu should pick up. O2 sensor in the exhaust should have picked it up.
Ecu should be smart enough to compensate in both scenarios especially these engines have 2 set of injectors. You would think if 1 goes you kinda still have a backup.

 

[AlS3BE]

I suppose I could push, but it probably wouldn't get me anywhere. Audi did reduce by £936 and said best offer is £2808.

I'll just have to chalk it up as one of those things in life. I've been driving for 28 years, and this is the first major issue I've had. Bitter (and expensice) pill to swallow. But it could have been worse. Much worse.

I just need to decide whether to sell it once it's fixed, or keep it for a year or so. It will have a brand new engine in it after all. To sell now, it's worth to me £2808 (trade-in) less than it was 2 weeks ago.

I would try and push this under sales of goods act(SOGA) and see what they say.
Under SOGA there’s an expectation of a product even though it has a limited manufacturers warranty.
Like a tv only has 1 year warranty but there’s an expectation it should last a few years so under SOGA you can still claim against the retailer(not manufacturer) for the fix/replacement. Same with washing machines, dishwashers etc
For a car I expect engine to last 100k or 5 years + before major work is needed. Yours is a replacement engine and not something like a simple head gasket needing replaced so you stand on good grounds.
Even coming to a compromised and knocking another £500 off is better than nowt.

 

[Adam14]

I would try and push this under sales of goods act(SOGA) and see what they say.
Under SOGA there’s an expectation of a product even though it has a limited manufacturers warranty.
Like a tv only has 1 year warranty but there’s an expectation it should last a few years so under SOGA you can still claim against the retailer(not manufacturer) for the fix/replacement. Same with washing machines, dishwashers etc
For a car I expect engine to last 100k or 5 years + before major work is needed. Yours is a replacement engine and not something like a simple head gasket needing replaced so you stand on good grounds.
Even coming to a compromised and knocking another £500 off is better than nowt.

This was my thinking and posted a similar thing a few messages back and would be the route I'd go down. Nothing to lose.

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[Damo S]

Faulty injector should have registered a lean or rich burn and ecu should have tried to compensate. Too lean and it gets too hot and melts pistons, too rich and you get bore wash which isn’t good for piston/rings either. Both could have caused a misfire which ecu should pick up. O2 sensor in the exhaust should have picked it up.
Ecu should be smart enough to compensate in both scenarios especially these engines have 2 set of injectors. You would think if 1 goes you kinda still have a backup.

The ECU does pick it up and logs it. However, it doesn't let you know with a ECL you have to go specifically looking for it in the logs.

 

[wab172uk]

I would try and push this under sales of goods act(SOGA) and see what they say.
Under SOGA there’s an expectation of a product even though it has a limited manufacturers warranty.
Like a tv only has 1 year warranty but there’s an expectation it should last a few years so under SOGA you can still claim against the retailer(not manufacturer) for the fix/replacement. Same with washing machines, dishwashers etc
For a car I expect engine to last 100k or 5 years + before major work is needed. Yours is a replacement engine and not something like a simple head gasket needing replaced so you stand on good grounds.
Even coming to a compromised and knocking another £500 off is better than nowt.

Yeah, I'll have a think about it. Might mention it tonight when I pick up the loan car.

 

[AlS3BE]

Yeah, I'll have a think about it. Might mention it tonight when I pick up the loan car.

Say it after you get the keys in case they take it back off you
I would try and get some advice with likes of trading standards and citizens advice bureau. They have standard letter templates to use.
Fact is Audi has admitted fault otherwise you wouldn’t be getting new engine which gives you good grounds. Now it’s dealer to take the hit too.

 

[AlS3BE]

The ECU does pick it up and logs it. However, it doesn't let you know with a ECL you have to go specifically looking for it in the logs.

That’s quite worrying

 

[Damo S]

Very! which is why I now keep an eye on it regularly using the torque pro app. It gives you an average for the last 10 drives on each cylinder, so it doesnt have to be done daily and takes a minute or so to check. I would definitely recommend it since the app is 4 quid and 10 quid or so for OBD dongle. money very well spent.

 

[AlS3BE]

Very! which is why I now keep an eye on it regularly using the torque pro app. It gives you an average for the last 10 drives on each cylinder, so it doesnt have to be done daily and takes a minute or so to check. I would definitely recommend it since the app is 4 quid and 10 quid or so for OBD dongle. money very well spent.

Who makes torque pro?
Only one I can find is £15 in the apps store