Ignitron ECU

[TrueSoft]

Hi Karl,
I drove car this morning with the advanced I posted last nite, I got knocks on 3 cylinders, so I have put the advance map back as it was without knocks.

I will have to reread your input as to the integrator map a few times to understand it better, So the Higher the number the more the waste gate is closed.
So at lower rpm I should have it 100 to help spool up quicker and the drop it off the stop over boosting?
And I thought the car was going well
the integrator max is now this and have the min by 0.7

will give it try on way home.
thanks for input
Many thanks

 

[TrueSoft]

Tried the above at lunch time.
Car seemed like it was in limp mode. Got a max 157 BHP
Put map back and all good, love this iECU.

 

[hydro s3]

@desertstorm how have you got so much knowledge of this ecu? Are you a tunner by trade or just picked all this up from the videos Bill has posted and by messing about with your ecu?

 

[desertstorm]

I said you would need a lot more than 35 for the intergrator max.It would feel like the car was in limp mode because the boost would be limited. But it should have picked up better at the bottom end.

 

[desertstorm]

@desertstorm how have you got so much knowledge of this ecu? Are you a tunner by trade or just picked all this up from the videos Bill has posted and by messing about with your ecu?

Just an amateur tuner who has played with the ECU a lot over the last 2 years.

 

[desertstorm]

Tried the above at lunch time.
Car seemed like it was in limp mode. Got a max 157 BHP
Put map back and all good, love this iECU.

I did say you would need to up the figures quite a bit. Something like this would get you close to the max and should help pick up at lower RPM.
You need to do some logging to find out what the intergrator max should be to get the boost you want.
Intergrator Max

Intergrator Min

 

[TrueSoft]

The pick up definitely felt better but then just died off.
tried to up a bit at a time on way home but still not enough.
I watched bill's video again, it is starting to make some sense, I can see my MAP is overshooting requested pressure at the high RPM range because my integrator map is asking for 100%.
I was playing with map when I got home after testing and logging. It needed even more.
came up with this as next test before I got your post

Your map, I feel will be should be so much better.
will log and try both on Thursday.
you are a star.
Badger 5 should have stock of pistons and rods soon, so please help me not to blow my motor until new engine is ready
Many thanks for your time.

 

[desertstorm]

The intergrator max and min tables give limits to the final control signal that goes to the N75 to control the wastegate. It doesn't mean that if the Max is set at 100 that it will goto 100. It will only use as much as it needs to achieve the boost request. What you try and do is set the intergrator max to a value that just allows enough flow through the turbine to produce the boost.
When the wastegate is at 100 the wastegate is shut and all exhaust flow goes through the turbine. As the value reduces less exhaust flows through the turbine. The turbine is what supplies the energy to the compressor, If you want more boost you need more energy .

 

[TrueSoft]

Thanks Karl
Your input is clear and valued,Think my Ko4 turbos is maxed out, and as you said it is all about flow.
I am going to try and am eager to try your map on turbi INT...
I was supposed to go in S4 tomorrow to try Int.. maps but left my keys at work as I was in wifes Q7 today.
Left on my Desk
thinking if I wake up early enough I will go fetch them before she wakes up, almost a 60 mile round trip.
the heart is willing,

 

[TrueSoft]

Took car for run this morning with my turbo setting totally changed as per Desertstorms advice.
just driving it felt so much more responsive up to about 5000RPM and then seems to die off a bit.

so I pulled over and change the Integrator maps a bit more, like such

Car felt really good. Think she is driving the best I have tested. I feel she is still lacking a bit after 6200RPM.
Below is map and log for when I got "340BHP" and today at "290BHP", even though today felt much better.
Is the 340 a false reading as fuel trims where off maybe.

www.truesoft.co.uk/s3/Ignitron-ECU-06.zip

many thanks, looking forward to reading any feed back and advice

 

[desertstorm]

The 340 won't be correct you obviously can't get that much power with the hardware you have. The calculated power output I have found is very dependent on intake air temps. If the fuel trims are out this will also affect it. You are really better off ignoring that number unless you are comparing the car on the same day back to back with similar intake air temps. The reason it's also not making as much power at the top end is the max intergrator value was 100% at the top end before, and you are doing the right thing making smaller staged changes and testing it. The thing to do now is do a third gear acceleration run to 6700 and log the car. That way you can see what the specified and actual boost is doing , check for knock, And work out where the map needs tweaking. You may need to increase the max intergrator at some points to hit the target boost. But bear in mind that although you increase the boost, the more the wastegate is shut the higher the back pressure will be. And it's the flow through the engine that is what really matters. That's why the airflow reading is a good clue to whats's going on. That's one of the really good things with ignitron you can log a run, quickly change something and log another run. I tend to create 3 or 4 slightly different maps and just load them one after another doing 3rd gear runs or just driving the car to see what's happening. Only takes 30 seconds to load a new map.
Looked at the logs and it's looking quite good. Boost is being controlled and isn't excessive. Only a small amount of knock at low rpm on one cylinder not really an issue. The intake temps are low as ambient was only like 2 degrees. 400Nm torque is 300Lb/ft so I would try and keep max torque around there.EGT peaking around 830 degrees helped by the cold intake air.
Wastegate duty is only 67% at the top end to make the requested boost so that is good.And Injector duty cycle is just under 70% so you have spare fuel available.

I would alter the boost request to ask for more boost at the top end. Nothing mad I would go with something like this. Log it again and see what it's looking like.

You will find as it gets hotter towards the summer and temperatures increase that calculated power will reduce. If EGT's get too hot Ignitron will reduce boost request to try and look after the turbo a bit.So if EGT's hit 920 degrees you will be limited to 1.4 bar of boost and EGT's at 940 will give you 1.2bar. This is all good.

You may be able to reduce EGT's by advancing the ignition a bit at higher RPM but I would get the boost and fuelling all sorted before tweaking the ignition.

 

[TrueSoft]

Thanks so much for positive comments and I am heading the right way.
You have mentioned flow and waste gate duty cycle can reduce flow in the engine. Starting to make sense now.
Towards the top end my waste gate duty cycle is +- 70%, and my MAP seems to be above requested pressure, does this mean I still have a bit more in the turbo at higher RPM?
I will add a bit more boost if you think turbo can do it,
Car definitely is picking up better and driving better than ever before.
so at 6250RPM I am getting around 195MPA I should add another 5% Happy days
Off to care for my parents tomorrow, hope I get there
will do some logs and report back
Many thanks,

 

[desertstorm]

The boost map I put above was pretty much what my stage 2 was running at 275bhp and 300Lb/ft so that is entirely doable for a K04 in good working order. I wouldn't request any more boost lower down, the turbo will make it but that is where you get torque spikes and that's how you end up with bent rods. As you say the actual boost is above specified which is a good sign at high RPM and usually means the turbo is happyish making that boost. You are only using 70% of the fuel so it's not going to lean out with another 0.15 -0.2 bar boost at the top end.

 

[TrueSoft]

thanks Karl, ran your map I did a log this morning and am happy to report that your input is definitely paying dividends.
Please see attached linked of this mornings map and log
www.truesoft.co.uk/s3/Ignitron-ECU-07.zip
car is going so well, not sure if I want to upgrade pistons , rods turbo etc, only to break gearboxes
but I will

 

[desertstorm]

Thats looking good. I would tweak the max intergrator at 3500 and 4000 down to 90 and 3000 down to 95% to try and control the overboost and keep the torque below 400Nm.

 

[desertstorm]

Tatting with the TT today, just tweaking the mapping a bit before I put the DSG in and playing with the HPA Haldex controller, trying out Race mode.
Hopefully with the DSG gearbox be in the low 3's .

 

[<tuffty/>]

I pulled a similar 0-60 back when I had a 20v.... then the transfer box exploded.... just something to be aware of when lanching lol

<tuffty/>

 

[desertstorm]

I pulled a similar 0-60 back when I had a 20v.... then the transfer box exploded.... just something to be aware of when lanching lol
<tuffty/>

I was trying to be a little sympathetic. I didn't bother with the anti lag and wasn't running the top map which is quicker. The car is stripped so a good deal lighter than what yours probably was, also don't have as much torque and power as yours did.

 

[S3AMJ]

I’ve got a spare transfer box ready I am looking into ways to strength it, you can get cages but with a 3.5” downpipe don’t think I’ll have the space for it..... that and I’ll move the problem down the line for something else to go bang


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[<tuffty/>]

I’ve got a spare transfer box ready I am looking into ways to strength it, you can get cages but with a 3.5” downpipe don’t think I’ll have the space for it..... that and I’ll move the problem down the line for something else to go bang


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...or just be mechanically sympathetic?

<tuffty/>

 

[S3AMJ]

...or just be mechanically sympathetic?

<tuffty/>

Yeah I’m fairly sympathetic to be honest. I’d rarely be launching it but you never know certainly nothing one of these people that notice something isn’t right and just put my foot down and ignore it


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[TrueSoft]

whoop, that is fast.
Mine is going best it ever has, many thanks to help of this forum and the iECU.
Still would like to know a relatively safe power and torque for a standard internal engine?
Also if I fit internal forged engine whats is the next step and what do need to worry about?
Is it money down the drain or good BHP for the buck?
Some cars give problems, some don't

 

[Brad1011]

Tatting with the TT today, just tweaking the mapping a bit before I put the DSG in and playing with the HPA Haldex controller, trying out Race mode.
Hopefully with the DSG gearbox be in the low 3's .

Will you do a thread for the dsg conversion or is it literally a straight swap ?


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[desertstorm]

whoop, that is fast.
Mine is going best it ever has, many thanks to help of this forum and the iECU.
Still would like to know a relatively safe power and torque for a standard internal engine?
Also if I fit internal forged engine whats is the next step and what do need to worry about?
Is it money down the drain or good BHP for the buck?
Some cars give problems, some don't

For a 225 1.8t engine with the K04 turbo the normal max that you want for reliability is 225bhp and 300Lb/ft /400Nm. These engnes are getting on though. As long as they are looked after you shoukld be good. You are probably at this level now running the boost and fuelling you are. By changing the rods you could possibly up the boost a little at the bottom end and get a better peak torque figure but this won't make the car that much faster. When you are accelerating through gears you are above 4500 rpm pretty much all the time but the extra torque you would get is around 3-4000.
If you aren't planning on changing the turbo then rods won't give you any more power.

 

[desertstorm]

Will you do a thread for the dsg conversion or is it literally a straight swap ?
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It will all be on the build thread for the TT. There is some stuff on there at the moment parts required and some testing. Mechanically quite a straightforward swap but there is a lot ot tuning to be done on the ECU to get it to work correctly with the DSG. The DSG and ECU have to work together to coordinate engine power and RPM for quick smooth changes. The gearbox will need remapping as they are limited to 400Nm stock.

 

[Brad1011]

It will all be on the build thread for the TT. There is some stuff on there at the moment parts required and some testing. Mechanically quite a straightforward swap but there is a lot ot tuning to be done on the ECU to get it to work correctly with the DSG. The DSG and ECU have to work together to coordinate engine power and RPM for quick smooth changes. The gearbox will need remapping as they are limited to 400Nm stock.

Yeah I see someone swap a diesel dsg box and it was changing at diesel rpm gear change so seems a lot of playing about


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[TrueSoft]

Thanks DesertStorm.
I am so happy with car at present, so besides the the little tweaks I an't asking her for more power.
Pistons and rods arrived today, so going to rebuild spare engine.
Might as well push the boat out once in my life and experiance somethink like 0-60 in a little over 3s.
So next is to re-bore spare engine at work. Got so many project more urgent than car at mo, so only plan to have engine done in a year realistically.
so got time to plan and do things right
Going to fit GT25 turbo too, not sure if 550 or 660, would you recommend porting head with one of these turbo's.
I love the torque at the lower RPM and the boost at 3000RPM with the K04.
What manifold are you running on your GT25-660, just seen the 770 is out Nuts
I will reread Tuffy's extended bible on mods and not post here as this for the iECU ,which deserves so much praise.
Are you running meths on the iECU?
I would also like to read you thread on DSG. please post link.
Many many thanks

 

[TrueSoft]

The car is going well,
The roads where dry today and it was a sunny 12 degrees so I gave it a bit of boost on way home over the mountain roads.
I went into limp mode 3x.
Reason was MAP sensor 254kpa at 5500 RPM at WOT
Does this mean my integrator max needs turning down a tad at and above this rpm.

 

[hydro s3]

Couple of questions.
1st is the car went into limp mode a couple times recently and I've downloaded the file from the ecu but how do I find out in the log where it actually went into limp mode?
2nd is how do I pull up the information on what all the ecu is logging in the ecu and when using tablet mode?
I've had a look on YouTube but I can't seem to find what I'm looking for.

 

[desertstorm]

The car is going well,
The roads where dry today and it was a sunny 12 degrees so I gave it a bit of boost on way home over the mountain roads.
I went into limp mode 3x.
Reason was MAP sensor 254kpa at 5500 RPM at WOT
Does this mean my integrator max needs turning down a tad at and above this rpm.

Find out why it went into limp mode. If you have a max boost set on the limp mode screen then it may have exceeded that. If the max boost is too close to the peak requested then occasionally it may go into limp. I think the default is set at 250mB so if this is set and enabled you probably need to up it a bit on this screen.

 

[desertstorm]

Couple of questions.
1st is the car went into limp mode a couple times recently and I've downloaded the file from the ecu but how do I find out in the log where it actually went into limp mode?
2nd is how do I pull up the information on what all the ecu is logging in the ecu and when using tablet mode?
I've had a look on YouTube but I can't seem to find what I'm looking for.

1.
If you were logging everything Ie from the tablet then goto the status bits screen and there is a status bit for the ECU in Limp mode. This will be set when the car goes to limp.

 

[desertstorm]

Couple of questions.
1st is the car went into limp mode a couple times recently and I've downloaded the file from the ecu but how do I find out in the log where it actually went into limp mode?
2nd is how do I pull up the information on what all the ecu is logging in the ecu and when using tablet mode?
I've had a look on YouTube but I can't seem to find what I'm looking for.

To find out what the ECU is logging and ammend it if you want you need to select the autolog option at the bottom of the diagnostics section.

A pop up comes up

click show and you will see what the ECU is logging all the time.

 

[hydro s3]

@desertstorm thanks mate still trying to work out this ecu .
Bill set my ecu up for me when he had the car a few months ago so I've not touched anything on it because I'm sure its set up correctly.
I will check the limp mode screen and see what it's set at.
I haven't logged it by the tablet when it went into limp mode I just downloaded the information from the ecu to look at.
I'll hook up the laptop to it tomorrow and see what's it's set to log on the autolog screen.

 

[TrueSoft]

Car on ECU is still going well.
So impressed with this ECU.
Last year I spent 3.5K on injectors and on stuff miss diagnosed on my Q7 before we track it down to ECM when the car eventually died with error P0606 , bought a plug n play ECU and went great for 15 months
For the last few months the same symptoms started happening.
Ruff Idle, hesitates on pull off and at revs she was fine until you hit an uphill, and go into limp mode.
ran VCDS and cylinder 1 was compensating too much so replaced injector. thought it was a quick fix
New injector fitted and had same symptoms. as there is little monitoring on the this car it is hard to pin point fault.
It could of been low fuel pressure, there are 2 pumps in the tank and then goes to a high pressure pump all with 1 sensor.
Nuts.
The iECU for the S3 is something I think Steven Hawkins would be proud off.
I can do the basics and tune the car. I think.
But what do all the 13 tabs do in detail.
I just leave then as default.
Thanks to all

 

[TrueSoft]

Hi All.
Car is going so well. just reread thread and picked up a few pointers that I missed.
my car would also go into limp mode after a boost, about 4000RPM, it was as Desert Stom said, (Im his No1 Fan)the car was boosting a bit over expected target
My fix was to increase the max boost in the limp mode options, Maybe a mistake but works for my car.

Upped max boost here to 275 in mid range. Please do not bite my head off. There are so many factors and I am a learning. SLOWLy.
Main thing I picked up after reread was, as per Desert Storm suggested was to log the air flow, I understand now, after playing with tweaks that this is something that I had missed and never logged which is cruecial to the tuning process.
for a standard turbo what should I be expecting.
Will log tomorrow.
THANKS

 

[hydro s3]

Ok so my tablet has decided to stop turning on. So I can get into any of my ignitron logs or the settings the way that Bill had set it up for me.
I'm going to curry's tomorrow to get a new one. When I download the ignitron software again is it just a case of reading the file of the ecu from the autolog?
Will that give me the settings file again?
I was going to put the autolog file and the settings file on a memory stick just incase some happens again.

 

[<tuffty/>]

Ok so my tablet has decided to stop turning on. So I can get into any of my ignitron logs or the settings the way that Bill had set it up for me.
I'm going to curry's tomorrow to get a new one. When I download the ignitron software again is it just a case of reading the file of the ecu from the autolog?
Will that give me the settings file again?
I was going to put the autolog file and the settings file on a memory stick just incase some happens again.

If you connect the new tablet and open IECU software... once connected it will read out the file... you can then save the file to your drive and bingo... you have the map...

Auto log should retain its settings as its set up in the ECU and you can read out any autolog data to save out as a log file...

The only thing you can't grab will be any custom log view settings and tablet view screens as they are saved into the registry on the machine...

I generally use one drive and sync map and log files over that... I also export the relevant registry settings to a .reg file (updating if I change tablet layouts or log view settings)

<tuffty/>

 

[hydro s3]

@<tuffty/> thanks mate for that information that will help

 

[hydro s3]

I went on the laptop to see what was auto logging and only thing in the boxes was rpm.
What are the best ones I should have in there? It has 32 I can pick but unsure on the best ones. Could someone put up a screen shot of what they have please. Or is there something I can tick that will log everything?

 

[desertstorm]

I went on the laptop to see what was auto logging and only thing in the boxes was rpm.
What are the best ones I should have in there? It has 32 I can pick but unsure on the best ones. Could someone put up a screen shot of what they have please. Or is there something I can tick that will log everything?

There is a default template that you can select that gets most of the ones you would want to log.

This is mine. There are some custom sensors on my list.