Lane assist

[AdamInKent]

I have a lot more unexpected events to deal with during my daily drive than people wandering out of lane, this includes unexpected interventions from the lane control system when it mistakes roadwork barriers and poorly removed lane markings, deciding that lanes are somewhere other than where they actually are. Try driving through operation Brock on the M20 when between a lorry and the concrete barrier in the rain while fighting with the steering wheel- scary.

All of this could be overcome by allowing the system to be permanently disabled by the Key driver (if he so chooses). Those that like it can leave it switched on!

Your car must be stronger than mine if you have to “fight” with the steering wheel. But I appreciate it can be unnerving if you are not used to it and more-so under the particular circumstances that you describe. (I can override mine with the fingertips of one hand.)

Are you aware of any modern cars that allow such a system to be permanently disabled? I’m guessing not, as it contributes towards a car’s ENCAP rating.

 

[Frizzley]

Your car must be stronger than mine if you have to “fight” with the steering wheel. But I appreciate it can be unnerving if you are not used to it and under the particular circumstances that you describe. (I can override mine with my fingertips.)

Are you aware of any modern cars that allow such a system to be permanently disabled? I’m guessing not, as it contributes towards the car’s ENCAP rating.

It can be coded to remember the last setting ie if you turn it off it will remain off when the car is restarted

 

[AdamInKent]

It can be coded to remember the last setting ie if you turn it off it will remain off when the car is restarted

I’m guessing that counts as a modification, from the point of view of car insurance?

 

[Frizzley]

I’m guessing that counts as a modification, from the point of view of car insurance?

Probably but same outcome as turning it off every time the car is started

 

[Stirling Floss]

Your car must be stronger than mine if you have to “fight” with the steering wheel. But I appreciate it can be unnerving if you are not used to it and more-so under the particular circumstances that you describe. (I can override mine with the fingertips of one hand.)

Are you aware of any modern cars that allow such a system to be permanently disabled? I’m guessing not, as it contributes towards a car’s ENCAP rating.

"Fight" in this instance is metaphoric, a literal description would be: continually correcting un-necessary and unwanted steering interventions caused by a system that is easily and often confused.
I fully support the concept of lane assist and certainly wouldn't want to disable it if it worked properly! However, at best this system is an annoying distraction, at worst could cause an accident.
It's quite telling that the A3 only has a score of 73/100 in the ENCAP rating and that the Lane Control system part of that rating just scrapes in with 'Adequate'.
The option to switch it off permanently should be available until the system has been properly developed and can be relied on to work safely at least 99% of the time.

 

[JKP]

I think the lane assist is quite ok in A3. In many other cars it starts to steer back when you wander only a bit off the center of the lane, making the driving very frustrating. The one in A3 only steers when you are very close to the lane markings, so it doesn't interfere with your driving all the time. Of course it gets distracted if the markings are bad or insufficient, and it's unbearable on narrow roads, but that's when you should switch it off. The manual also says it's meant to be used on good road conditions.

I also think it's obvious why it must be set on by default on every start; that's a safety matter (to the manufacturer and insurance companies mostly), that the driver wouldn't drive off the road by mistake, because he/she left unnoticed the lane assist being off when starting the car. I'd like it to remember the last setting too, but that's why manufacturers can't offer that function.

 

[Stirling Floss]

I think the lane assist is quite ok in A3. In many other cars it starts to steer back when you wander only a bit off the center of the lane, making the driving very frustrating. The one in A3 only steers when you are very close to the lane markings, so it doesn't interfere with your driving all the time. Of course it gets distracted if the markings are bad or insufficient, and it's unbearable on narrow roads, but that's when you should switch it off. The manual also says it's meant to be used on good road conditions.

I also think it's obvious why it must be set on by default on every start; that's a safety matter (to the manufacturer and insurance companies mostly), that the driver wouldn't drive off the road by mistake, because he/she left unnoticed the lane assist being off when starting the car. I'd like it to remember the last setting too, but that's why manufacturers can't offer that function.

I shouldn't have to wait until the function becomes distracting, unbearable or frustrating before disabling it! these are all distractions that could lead to an accident. I wonder how the insurers or manufacturer would view that? do you think they would admit liability for having it set as default?

 

[AdamInKent]

i genuinely don’t have a problem with it on the roads that I drive. For the most part, it doesn’t interfere on country lanes / single track unless I get too close to the verge. Any correction that it does apply is easily stopped by firm pressure on the wheel. The first time it happened, it was a surprise, but it’s something that I have quickly got used to.

Out of interest what are other peoples experiences? Are you regularly switching it off?

 

[SamB2020]

i genuinely don’t have a problem with it on the roads that I drive. For the most part, it doesn’t interfere on country lanes / single track unless I get too close to the verge. Any correction that it does apply is easily stopped by firm pressure on the wheel. The first time it happened, it was a surprise, but it’s something that I have quickly got used to.

Out of interest what are other peoples experiences? Are you regularly switching it off?

When I got my first 8Y S-Line back in 2020 it was always trying correct the car’s path, after an update not long after I got the car it was much better. My 2023 Edition 1 is fine unless I get on a bumpy country lane.

 

[JKP]

I shouldn't have to wait until the function becomes distracting, unbearable or frustrating before disabling it! these are all distractions that could lead to an accident. I wonder how the insurers or manufacturer would view that? do you think they would admit liability for having it set as default?

I've learned quite well when it will be obvious to better switch it off, before it starts distracting the driving. If you stubbornly keep it on when driving roads where it can't work flawlessly, why blame the car for that? Said easy way, keep it on where it works, disable it when it doesn't. Mostly it works well. In some other cars it doesn't, and that's when your question is a relevant one.

When I got my first 8Y S-Line back in 2020 it was always trying correct the car’s path, after an update not long after I got the car it was much better. My 2023 Edition 1 is fine unless I get on a bumpy country lane.

That's interesting. My first 8Y was some of the first ones ever built, and the lane assist wasn't overreacting at all, nor in the one I also test drove back then.

In my current car the function itself feels the same, but it's clearly more capable of reading the road than in the old car. There was more a problem that on some roads it would notice the markings for a short distance, then lose the markings and go off for another short part, then go back on when it again found the markings. That was somewhat dangerous. But aso then, I learned quickly when to switch it off. The new car isn't doing that anymore.

This goes off topic, but I even thought, did Audi release the 8Y with some slightly different part combinations and software versions, just to find out which ones work and which ones don't? Then keep the "right parts" in further production. Some of the first cars seemed to be almost trouble-free, as the others (as my old car) were a complete mess.

 

[Frizzley]

"Fight" in this instance is metaphoric, a literal description would be: continually correcting un-necessary and unwanted steering interventions caused by a system that is easily and often confused.
I fully support the concept of lane assist and certainly wouldn't want to disable it if it worked properly! However, at best this system is an annoying distraction, at worst could cause an accident.
It's quite telling that the A3 only has a score of 73/100 in the ENCAP rating and that the Lane Control system part of that rating just scrapes in with 'Adequate'.
The option to switch it off permanently should be available until the system has been properly developed and can be relied on to work safely at least 99% of the time.

The ENCAP actually rated the lane keep assist function as good and the emergency lane keeping function as adequate. Higher scores are awarded to cars equipped with Blind Spot Monitoring systems which the test car did not have.

Overall the system works seems to work pretty much as Audi describe and the manual makes both its limitations quite clear e.g. it doesn’t work in narrow lanes or in road works and the prompts provided to the driver in different situation. The info on the MMI also clear states the system is intended for use on major roads or motorway which is supported by the fact it only becomes operational at over 40mph.

In my current car the function itself feels the same, but it's clearly more capable of reading the road than in the old car. There was more a problem that on some roads it would notice the markings for a short distance, then lose the markings and go off for another short part, then go back on when it again found the markings. That was somewhat dangerous. But aso then, I learned quickly when to switch it off. The new car isn't doing that anymore.

This goes off topic, but I even thought, did Audi release the 8Y with some slightly different part combinations and software versions, just to find out which ones work and which ones don't? Then keep the "right parts" in further production. Some of the first cars seemed to be almost trouble-free, as the others (as my old car) were a complete mess.

It’s interesting how Audi have developed the system over recent years. On my S5 you have to turn it on (factory setting is off by default) and it’s also possible to adjust how early or late the system intervenes in the MMI. In the Q3 my wife had before her S3 the system default was on but only required a quick press on the stalk to turn it off whereas on her S3 it requires a much longer press in order to deactivate it.

It also works differently if the car has side assist and can intervene in certain circumstances even if you have indicated.

 

[Stirling Floss]

The ENCAP actually rated the lane keep assist function as good and the emergency lane keeping function as adequate. Higher scores are awarded to cars equipped with Blind Spot Monitoring systems which the test car did not have.

Overall the system works seems to work pretty much as Audi describe and the manual makes both its limitations quite clear e.g. it doesn’t work in narrow lanes or in road works and the prompts provided to the driver in different situation. The info on the MMI also clear states the system is intended for use on major roads or motorway which is supported by the fact it only becomes operational at over 40mph.



It’s interesting how Audi have developed the system over recent years. On my S5 you have to turn it on (factory setting is off by default) and it’s also possible to adjust how early or late the system intervenes in the MMI. In the Q3 my wife had before her S3 the system default was on but only required a quick press on the stalk to turn it off whereas on her S3 it requires a much longer press in order to deactivate it.

It also works differently if the car has side assist and can intervene in certain circumstances even if you have indicated.

With respect to everyone that has responded on this thread, the initial question wasn't: "who can live with the lane control malfunctions" it was: "how can those that can't live with it, permanently disable it"?

Nearly all of the responses on this thread confirm that the system does malfunction to some extent, this isn't in question. The fact that some of you are happy to live with and manage that on a daily basis is your choice.

The question for debate is: Should a manufacturer override the drivers selected preference to disable the system when the system is prone to malfunctions.

(Insurance is a red herring, if activation of the system was a requirement there would be no option provided to disable it)

 

[Frizzley]

With respect to everyone that has responded on this thread, the initial question wasn't: "who can live with the lane control malfunctions" it was: "how can those that can't live with it, permanently disable it"?

Nearly all of the responses on this thread confirm that the system does malfunction to some extent, this isn't in question. The fact that some of you are happy to live with and manage that on a daily basis is your choice.

The question for debate is: Should a manufacturer override the drivers selected preference to disable the system when the system is prone to malfunctions.

(Insurance is a red herring, if activation of the system was a requirement there would be no option provided to disable it)

If you read my earlier post than then that answers your initial question

 

[Stirling Floss]

If you read my earlier post than then that answers your initial question

As noted in my post above, Insurance is a red herring.
If it were an insurance requirement then I wouldn't be given the opportunity to disable it, Its unlikely that insurance companies would insist on this function being permanently enabled until the technology improves.

 

[JKP]

The question for debate is: Should a manufacturer override the drivers selected preference to disable the system when the system is prone to malfunctions.

From the manufacturer's viewpoint, the system isn't actually "prone to malfunctions". If they press it in the manual, that the system is meant to be used on good road conditions only, then it's not malfunction if it's not working correctly on roads where it isn't supposed to.

I think it's one of those "safety" features, that are mandatory in new cars these days, so even if the manufacturers can't make it work totally flawlessly absolutely everywhere, they are not allowed to code it to be permanently disabled either. I actually asked from my dealer if they could code it to remember the last setting, and the answer was that they are not allowed to do that.

 

[Stirling Floss]

From the manufacturer's viewpoint, the system isn't actually "prone to malfunctions". If they press it in the manual, that the system is meant to be used on good road conditions only, then it's not malfunction if it's not working correctly on roads where it isn't supposed to.

I think it's one of those "safety" features, that are mandatory in new cars these days, so even if the manufacturers can't make it work totally flawlessly absolutely everywhere, they are not allowed to code it to be permanently disabled either. I actually asked from my dealer if they could code it to remember the last setting, and the answer was that they are not allowed to do that.

I'm not convinced that it is mandatory. It was planned for 2022 but wasn't implemented. Here's an interesting article on this very subject:

Matt Prior: Why lane-keeping assist systems need a rethink | Autocar

Advanced driver-assistance systems have their merits, but could be better implemented

www.autocar.co.uk

 

[JKP]

Ok, I'm not sure about it either, just heard something like that.

Anyways, this seems to be quite a similar case than the one with the adaptive cruise control. Once I asked, why it can't be selected if it functions as a traditional or adaptive cruise control. That would be useful when the weather goes so bad it drops the ACC, as for now you can only use the speed limiter. The dealer's answer was that it's to avoid misunderstanding where a driver wouldn't notice which way the cruise is and caused a collision thinking the car would slow down automatically behind a slower car. So this and the lane assist being always on by default is basically just manufacturer's (or lawmaker's) anticipation of liability questions with people too off-handed to notice what their car is doing.

 

[Stirling Floss]

Ok, I'm not sure about it either, just heard something like that.

Anyways, this seems to be quite a similar case than the one with the adaptive cruise control. Once I asked, why it can't be selected if it functions as a traditional or adaptive cruise control. That would be useful when the weather goes so bad it drops the ACC, as for now you can only use the speed limiter. The dealer's answer was that it's to avoid misunderstanding where a driver wouldn't notice which way the cruise is and caused a collision thinking the car would slow down automatically behind a slower car. So this and the lane assist being always on by default is basically just manufacturer's (or lawmaker's) anticipation of liability questions with people too off-handed to notice what their car is doing.

That would make sense if we were discussing the regular on/off situation you currently have when it's constantly reactivated by the car and deactivated by the user. nobody is ever quite sure what state the car is in. Its not an argument against the driver permanently disabling the system and knowing with certainty that the system is disabled and not relying on it.

I'm not looking for an argument, I've made my point and have the information I came here to find: I'll be looking for an ex Audi technician that can permanently disable the system but until then I'll be disabling 'steering intervention' every day between pressing the start button and releasing the handbrake!

 

[Frizzley]

As noted in my post above, Insurance is a red herring.
If it were an insurance requirement then I wouldn't be given the opportunity to disable it, Its unlikely that insurance companies would insist on this function being permanently enabled until the technology improves.

Wrong post - if you have another look you’ll see the answer to your original question

 

[gboole]

Have you guys ever driven an A Class and got too close to the road lines? I thought I hit a dog or something! That was scary. The A3 is delicate compared to that.
I usually turn it off while driving in the city or country roads, I have to be able to avoid idiots, animals etc but usually leave it on for the motorway

Edit: Last time I drove the car, when I moved the interior mirror it deactivated. Took it to the dealer and he told me there is an update, if anyone is interested.

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