Saloon Panoramic glass sunroof weight

[Robopilingui]

Hi guys,

Does anyone know what is the penalty in weight for a car with a Pano roof? I cannot find any answer about that. I don't want to track the car but it is good to know how much weight it adds to the car.

Thanks!

 

[FBF01]

Sure I read on the R forum when I was looking to spec my R that it adds up to 25kilograms....however, that may be b@llocks

 

[Evil Diesel]

The pano roof is more than that - it is circa 50kgs. I didn't spec it as I will do a few trackdays and didn't want that kind of weight on the top of the car.

 

[Aoon_M]

I added up the weights off the parts database a while back.. It is sub 25kg

 

[teslaboy]

I can't believe people are considering not getting a pano roof due to its weight!! It was never gonna be more than 30-40kgs.
Like a having a very small girlfriend in the car permanently!
Ridiculous.
Some numpty is bound to do a side by side 0 60 test. Lol !!

 

[teslaboy]

As for track days in the car, well surely to get to the kind speeds where you could potentially notice the difference an extra 25kg or so at the roof line might make then you could well be going off !
Now that would be a whole shxx load of trouble with the insurance or rather lack of it !

 

[teslaboy]

Personally I didn't get one down to cost - I'm a tight arxs ! Tried to keep it under 50k.
Wish I had actually ticked the box now it would certainly brighten up the interior.

 

[Evil Diesel]

Always get track day insurance - not necessarily only for damage to your car but to others as well. I went to a day at Bedford Autodrome were one numpty who was driving like an idiot collected a 911 GT3 and a LaFerrari on a corner. He had no insurance.

When I left he was sitting at a table surrounded by paperwork with his face buried in his hands.

 

[Alex L]

Always get track day insurance - not necessarily only for damage to your car but to others as well. I went to a day at Bedford Autodrome were one numpty who was driving like an idiot collected a 911 GT3 and a LaFerrari on a corner. He had no insurance.

When I left he was sitting at a table surrounded by paperwork with his face buried in his hands.

Why, as he has no responsibility to the other drivers? You can only insure your own car, not for third party damage on track

 

[teslaboy]

Always get track day insurance - not necessarily only for damage to your car but to others as well. I went to a day at Bedford Autodrome were one numpty who was driving like an idiot collected a 911 GT3 and a LaFerrari on a corner. He had no insurance.

When I left he was sitting at a table surrounded by paperwork with his face buried in his hands.

Yep I'd love to take mine trackside but 100% with the the insurance
What's the average track day insurance cost??

 

[RS3 S.]

Pano roof was a must for me.

 

[Leo-RS]

I asked this question to Audi's technical department back in Aug and they got back to me about a month later.

The weight penalty on the RS3 saloon is 102lbs (46kg)

I then removed it from my order form.

 

[Phil3]

I didn’t originally spec it but the more I looked at photos it because a must here also

 

[Robopilingui]

Some interesting replies around here, thanks. But, as a daily driver and extremely unlikely track days (let's say 1 or 2 in the hole life of the car which be around 5 years), does it really make any difference to an amateur driver?

 

[Tristan2]

My S3 Saloon hasn’t got pano roof
This was a must have with my RS3


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Leo-RS]

I can't believe people are considering not getting a pano roof due to its weight!! It was never gonna be more than 30-40kgs.
Like a having a very small girlfriend in the car permanently!
Ridiculous.
Some numpty is bound to do a side by side 0 60 test. Lol !!

I bought an RS3 to drive it hard and to drive it fast, it needs to be as lightweight as possible without going extreme and spending tens of thousands on carbon fibre and lightweight panels.

It's 50kg in the worst possible place to add weight, it raises the centre of gravity so affects its handling and turn in. With it's increased weight, the car will not accelerate as quickly, nor will it brake as sharply. Tyre wear, brake wear and fuel consumption increases.

So yes, I removed it from my order.

I can be a bit of a numpty yes, but if I wanted a slower RS3, I would have saved my money and bought an S3 and tuned it. I have bought the RS3 for one purpose only, to make it as quick and as powerful as possible. Why should I add a heavy panoramic roof when what I want to do is decrease its weight. The RS3 and TTRS are the hidden gems in Audi's arsenal for what they are capable of accleration wise. My Rs3 at 550hp is likely going to be as quick if not quicker than my RS6 at 750hp. Only one reason for that, begins with W.

Iroz motorsports in the US measured their RS3 Sedan (Pano roof standard fit) and their TTRS and the RS3 is coming in at 275lbs heavier which ties in thereabouts with what Audi told me. Book wise it should only be 165lbs (RS3 without Pano)

 

[Rocketer]

Nice for those who wants it and its there choice but its still a tick on the minus side and think about how proud Audi was telling people (buyers) that they have a lighter engine now in FL, so it does matter. I have ac which is better than any roof for cooling and yes the sound is enough without pano roof. Thinking way back it belongs to the 80`s.

 

[Phil3]

If you’re whole focus is to have a car that handles as good as possible and is a fast as possible then I’m sure there is a lot of better places you could have spent 50k

Also saying that... if you are that bothered about weight in the car, I guess you’ll be removing the back seats and passengers seat as they are bulky items which are just going to slow you down too

 

[teslaboy]

I do like some of the responses here.

The interesting point is that we are all right in our own way !

 

[Rocketer]

If you’re whole focus is to have a car that handles as good as possible and is a fast as possible then I’m sure there is a lot of better places you could have spent 50k

Also saying that... if you are that bothered about weight in the car, I guess you’ll be removing the back seats and passengers seat as they are bulky items which are just going to slow you down too

Are you really driving a mc or is it just a avatar? If you are driving a 1000cc bike or bigger you know that even 50 kg on a bike is much or do you?

 

[Leo-RS]

If you’re whole focus is to have a car that handles as good as possible and is a fast as possible then I’m sure there is a lot of better places you could have spent 50k

Also saying that... if you are that bothered about weight in the car, I guess you’ll be removing the back seats and passengers seat as they are bulky items which are just going to slow you down too

No, not as a daily there aren't. if you can suggest such a car, I'm all ears. For £100k. the RS6 is about the most complete car you can possibly buy, it does everything and more but it's a 2 ton wagon and needs big power to make it scary quick. The RS3/TTRS are extremely tunable and they have a huge weight advantage over it.

Iroz motorsports in the States are on course to do a 10.3 1/4m time in a Stage 2 car and a 9sec 1/4 mile time by fitting a hybrodised standard turbo. Those figures are completely ludicrous for a car running a standard engine and transmission.

For dragstrip use, I may remove the seats to shave an extra tenth or 2 yes. For road use, then no.

Someone else nailed it, the facelifts plus point is saving 26kg from its nose heavy engine. Add the pano, and you've just added 45kg in the worst possible place you can. Completely nulls and voids the 26kg saving from the engine.

Hey, we all have different opinions and views, some people will buy the RS3 to pose around in and show it off, drive it to maybe 100mph once or twice a year, do the occasional launch and thats good enough for them. That's great, not me though, mine's will be getting tuned imminently, launched hundreds of times and i'll be going for top end vmax runs on the autobahns as soon as I can get it over there. I'm there to give my car a very hard time.

 

[Phil3]

Are you really driving a mc or is it just a avatar? If you are driving a 1000cc bike or bigger you know that even 50 kg on a bike is much or do you?

Nope, that is in fact me on the my Ducati in my avatar Questions what I have just because I have a different opinion to you ok haha

...and yes I am fully aware of how weight in both cars and bikes can affect the overall performance... as said above, this is a rather, ‘each to their own’ thread here

My personal thinking on it... unless you are a pro racing driver or use the car for completions etc, then 99% of the time the pano roof is a nice luxary on your daily driving of the car... compared to the amount of times it will be driven on a track... and if you are that track focused, then to be honest the RS3 isn’t the right tool for the job

 

[Phil3]

No, not as a daily there aren't. if you can suggest such a car, I'm all ears.

Iroz motorsports in the States are on course to do a 10.3 1/4m time in a Stage 2 car and a 9sec 1/4 mile time by fitting a hybrodised standard turbo. Those figures are completely ludicrous for a car running a standard engine and transmission.

For dragstrip use, I may remove the seats to shave an extra tenth or 2 yes. For road use, then no.

Someone else nailed it, the facelifts plus point is saving 26kg from its nose heavy engine. Add the pano, and you've just added 45kg in the worst possible place you can. Completely nulls and voids the 26kg saving from the engine.

Hey, we all have different opinions and views, some people will buy the RS3 to pose around in and show it off, drive it to maybe 100mph once or twice a year, do the occasional launch and thats good enough for them. That's great, not me though, it will be getting tuned imminently, launched hundreds of times and it will be hitting vmax on the autobahns as soon as I can get it over there. I'm there to give the car a very hard time.

As you say, each to their own... and if I’m honest I’ll be watching here with keen interest in what you do with the car... I’m not one for arguing and like how owners go in different directions and have the car for different reasons

Personally if I was going to use a car as you have described I would go back to a GTR, given the price you won’t get in a new one obviously but very good second hand ones are available for RS3 money... but again, it’s each to their own

 

[teslaboy]

No, not as a daily there aren't. if you can suggest such a car, I'm all ears. For £100k. the RS6 is about the most complete car you can possibly buy, it does everything and more but it's a 2 ton wagon and needs big power to make it scary quick. The RS3/TTRS are extremely tunable and they have a huge weight advantage over it.

Iroz motorsports in the States are on course to do a 10.3 1/4m time in a Stage 2 car and a 9sec 1/4 mile time by fitting a hybrodised standard turbo. Those figures are completely ludicrous for a car running a standard engine and transmission.

For dragstrip use, I may remove the seats to shave an extra tenth or 2 yes. For road use, then no.

Someone else nailed it, the facelifts plus point is saving 26kg from its nose heavy engine. Add the pano, and you've just added 45kg in the worst possible place you can. Completely nulls and voids the 26kg saving from the engine.

Hey, we all have different opinions and views, some people will buy the RS3 to pose around in and show it off, drive it to maybe 100mph once or twice a year, do the occasional launch and thats good enough for them. That's great, not me though, mine's will be getting tuned imminently, launched hundreds of times and i'll be going for top end vmax runs on the autobahns as soon as I can get it over there. I'm there to give my car a very hard time.

Blimey I wouldn't want to be the one the buys your eventual used RS3.
That's if it actually makes it to being a used RS ! Ha ha

 

[Rocketer]

Nope, that is in fact me on the my Ducati in my avatar

...and yes I am fully aware of how weight in both cars and bikes can affect the overall performance... as said above, this is a rather, ‘each to their own’ thread here

My personal thinking on it... unless you are a pro racing driver or use the car for completions etc, then 99% of the time the pano roof is a nice luxary on your daily driving of the car... compared to the amount of times it will be driven on a track... and if you are that track focused, then to be honest the RS3 isn’t the right tool for the job

Ok, nice. I can just see it from my point of view and for instance when I swapped oem exhaust which was if I remember it 23-24kg and Yoshimura was approx 7-8kg and yes in normal street driving I could feel it easily with better handling etc and feldt lighter.

You don’t have to do trackdays to appriciate less weight on any car, bike or whatever, its just more fun to drive.

The formula is always more hp and less weight.

 

[A.ShawnS3]

I can be a bit of a numpty yes, but if I wanted a slower RS3, I would have saved my money and bought an S3 and tuned it. I have bought the RS3 for one purpose only, to make it as quick and as powerful as possible. Why should I add a heavy panoramic roof when what I want to do is decrease its weight. The RS3 and TTRS are the hidden gems in Audi's arsenal for what they are capable of accleration wise.

So you talk about getting an RS3 without a pan roof because it being lighter etc and then comparing it to buying an s3 because it would make it slower etc. Well you should have got an s3 and tuned it if you wanted a quick fast car. Rs3 will always be heavier car than an s3 due to having a heavier engine, gearbox, more fluids due to these larger parts. An s3 will always be more dynamic than an rs3 surely ? So your statement of comparing it to an s3 isn’t really accurate.

 

[FBF01]

I have a pano roof on my white R and it looks so god damn good on tilt, but i wasn’t fussed about having it for the RS3, it’s 1k after all...not cheap but does add so much light in to the cabin. Wouldn’t necessarily say I feel any difference in the handling or performance truth be said, but there’s bound to be.

 

[Leo-RS]

As you say, each to their own... and if I’m honest I’ll be watching here with keen interest in what you do with the car... I’m not one for arguing and like how owners go in different directions and have the car for different reasons

Personally if I was going to use a car as you have described I would go back to a GTR, given the price you won’t get in a new one obviously but very good second hand ones are available for RS3 money... but again, it’s each to their own

R35 is over 10yrs old now and doesn't have rear doors nor 3 seats in the back, rear space is tight too. The R35 is extremely dated now on the inside and questionable if it's still got it on the outside (newer cars yes, older cars no). Tuning wise, like for like the RS3 will hold its own against the GTR. Times have moved on, the R35 is no longer the king that it used to be.

The only reason I opted for the RS3 this time over the lighter TTRS was due to having young kids that need the back seats and space. RS3 more practical.

Hey, i'm only one man with a voice, but those were my reasons for having the Pano and then removing it and yes, it all was to do with the weight, nothing else. I only wanted the Pano for the look, not really the functionality. I've since had the roof wrapped gloss black, yes, not the same but it has given me the look that I was after.

Also, it's a half hearted effort for the A3 range, it's not a full panoramic roof, it's just a sunroof. Doesn't open fully back, nor does it go anywhere near the rear window.

 

[Phil3]

Lots of good points... but again many I would disagree with haha, as I said I’m not here to argue, we all have different needs and tastes... neither of us are right now wrong here, all down to personal judgment

 

[Leo-RS]

So you talk about getting an RS3 without a pan roof because it being lighter etc and then comparing it to buying an s3 because it would make it slower etc. Well you should have got an s3 and tuned it if you wanted a quick fast car. Rs3 will always be heavier car than an s3 due to having a heavier engine, gearbox, more fluids due to these larger parts. An s3 will always be more dynamic than an rs3 surely ? So your statement of comparing it to an s3 isn’t really accurate.

S3 has a wheezing lawnmower engine though and sounds sh*te

2.5t has a lot more character and is the stronger and more torquier engine, also offers more headroom for tuning 650-700 as opposed to 525 in the S3. Brakes, suspension, gearbox, infact the whole drivetrain is beefed up. For that reason, always figured that you should start off with the higher end model rather than buying the cheaper model and spending big to make it quick.

As said, I believe the TTRS and the RS3 are Audi's hidden gems for outright acceleration. 4/5/6/7 too heavy. (R8 V10+ excluded, although very expensive to tune)





Yes, I am aware the S3 2.0t engine is a good one, but it's still not a 2.5t

 

[PanamaS3]

I wish the RS3 sedan had the TTRS seats as an option or something similar/even more lightweight.
My 2c on the pano roof:
1. a lot of them have been found to creak and rattle....when mine heats up in the sun it creaks
2. they are not a full pano....but think it was done like that not to massively reduce headroom for people in the back
3. they reduce headroom in front, and for tall peeps it sucks a lot, especially with electric sports seats....am not a fan of reclining back a little
4. in hot climate (like where I am) there is never a day I open the pano to help cool the cabin....AC all the way
5. no doubt they are heavy....but outweighed by some for the enjoyment derived from them ie. more light, some fresh air and noise
Conclusion in my scientific test (above) is a score of 1 out of 5....at best....if I get an RS3 it will be without a pano [flame suit on for @jassyo06 ]

 

[Evil Diesel]

I totally agree. It was of no interest to me.

 

[Spinstorm]

I wouldn’t buy a car with a pano roof. I have an S3 with one now and the RS3 I ordered has one as well.

1. I had some creaking when I collected the car - Audi didn’t fit the roof quite right and it was fixed. Chances are any rattles are down to a factory issue and the dealer should sort it out. I have no noise at all from the roof now.
2. I agree they aren’t full pano - which is a shame but they add lots of light into the car which makes it much nicer place to be.
3. I never understood the headroom argument - there is MORE space between your head and the actual sunroof not less (because there is a big chunk cut out of the roof!).
4. I agree in hot weather they don’t really cool you down and in the sun you just get a burnt head but when its cooler and the sun goes down (or now in winter) its a great way to get some extra air into the car without opening the windows. And in actual fact I can drive around now in the cold with my roof open and air con on and I don’t get stuck in the eternal too hot/too cold in the car issue. It ends up perfect.
5. I understand weight if your on a track; I understand cost on the budget but I don’t understand people coming up with lists (like this).

 

[Jassyo06]

I wish the RS3 sedan had the TTRS seats as an option or something similar/even more lightweight.
My 2c on the pano roof:
1. a lot of them have been found to creak and rattle....when mine heats up in the sun it creaks
2. they are not a full pano....but think it was done like that not to massively reduce headroom for people in the back
3. they reduce headroom in front, and for tall peeps it sucks a lot, especially with electric sports seats....am not a fan of reclining back a little
4. in hot climate (like where I am) there is never a day I open the pano to help cool the cabin....AC all the way
5. no doubt they are heavy....but outweighed by some for the enjoyment derived from them ie. more light, some fresh air and noise
Conclusion in my scientific test (above) is a score of 1 out of 5....at best....if I get an RS3 it will be without a pano [flame suit on for @jassyo06 ]

It's not a RS3 you need matey its one of these

 

[PanamaS3]

It's not a RS3 you need matey its one of these View attachment 142920

did you just draw that?! impressive! lol

 

[Aoon_M]

M division are removing weight from the roof using carbon fibre and Quattro GmbH are adding weight to the roof by adding panoramic roofs.. LOL

The panoramic roof in the RS3 is awesome when you are able to listen to the soundtrack of a 600hp RS3 on full chat and personally I don’t mind the weight penalty as the dimension of sound it adds with the roof open offsets that.

@Leo-RS there is no way it’s 46kg, not sure where audi pulled that figured from. 25kg sounds right, it isn’t even a proper panoramic roof it’s tiny. The glass weighs approx 10kg, the rest of the weight is in the motors and sliding mechanism

 

[PanamaS3]

I wouldn’t buy a car with a pano roof. I have an S3 with one now and the RS3 I ordered has one as well.

I see what you did there.....making me think you wouldn't buy a car with a pano roof lol

I understand cost on the budget but I don’t understand people coming up with lists (like this).

its not your list its my list....i like my list but I don't like yours lol

each to their own....some would have pano over anything else....but it is wrong to call it pano...they often do creak and rattle....but if you live in a cold place and love the wind in your hair then fair enough....I haven't got much left so prefer not to wave those strands about risking them
as to headroom, don't ask me how or why but if you sit in a car with one and then one without there's more headroom in the one without.

 

[Leo-RS]

I did initially think around 25kg too Aoon.

I haven’t actually seen the roof up close but is it just the retractable section that is glass and the rest of the roof gloss black paint or is it full (well 3/4) glass? If the roof is 3/4 glass I could easily believe it being 50kg or so all in. If it’s just the retractable section that is toughened glass then yes it does seem a little high. Not seen the Engineering drawings for the roof either but would imagine there are more structural members supporting it all so it isn’t just the weight of the glass and the motors.

Hank has noted a 270lb difference between his TTRS and RS3 too. I’ll try find the post, lots to trawl through on his Instagram:Facebook. On paper that should only be a 160lb difference. (Kerb weight TTRS = 1440kg RS3 = 1515kg in UK brochures) I guess that could be down to other optional extras, adding or removing in weight etc. I guess the only way would be to find two very similar specced cars, one with and one without and plop them on the weighbridge.

I only ever specced it for the way it looks rather than it’s function. Sunroofs belong in the 80’s, would much rather have the aircon on Although I do see the appeal about adding light and some more noise into the cabin. As noted, it isn’t actually a Pano roof, just a small retractable sunroof.

Anyway lots of pros and cons in the thread, a lot of people love them, a lot of people aswell just aren’t fussed by them.

Edit....Hanks post below

270lb difference in the stock weights, his RS3 has Pano as standard. 75kg in the brochure difference = 160lbs. Pano therefore adding 110lbs thereabouts which is 50kg, fits in with what Audi told me.

 

[Jassyo06]

@Rob2k68 knows the exact weight of the glass roof

 

[Aoon_M]

@Leo-RS so the section that actually retracts is glass, the rest is plastic, same material as the gloss black section on side of the door windows