Police Stopped Me!

[shariain]

The Police force has to be the biggest legal criminal organisation world wide.

Edit

And I feel sorry for all the decent coppers that are fair and take pride in there work and actually have really good working ethics. To tar them with the same brush as all the crap jobs worths that let the power go to their heads.

 

[_Zerocool_]

have to stop you there! It's not a legal requirement in England to carry your driving documents or any other form of I.D. as it is in some other Countries. So you Do Not have to give over your driving documents when requested by a Police Officer, as you may not have them with you.

That's why there are such things as Producers.

It is technically an offence not to produce your drving documents to a Police officer upon request. It was identified that not everyone carries theirs with them which is why the 7 day producers (HORT1s) were brought in otherwise there would be lots of people being reported. If you give your details the Police can check whether you have a licence and what kind, insurance and MOT anyway.

 

[_Zerocool_]

have to stop you there! It's not a legal requirement in England to carry your driving documents or any other form of I.D. as it is in some other Countries. So you Do Not have to give over your driving documents when requested by a Police Officer, as you may not have them with you.

That's why there are such things as Producers.

Road Traffic Act 1988 s164(6) makes it an offence not to produce a license,
The legislation is here if you want to see it http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/164

s164(7)(b) allows the seven days to hand it into police. This subsection relating to the seven day time period is technically a defence to the original offence of failing to produce your licence at the road side when the request is made by a Police officer (S164(6))

Oh and to have a producer you have to give your name, date of birth and address.

 

[kanecullen89]

This is unreal. Why is everyone hating the police so much?
They do a tough job and if they're dealing with an incident and someone decides to be a pain in the **** on top of it, they deserve to get punished.

Most of the 'law' that people are quoting in the thread is either years and years out of date or has never existed and it just rumour.

This whole complaints thing is nonsense. If you make a complaint, it is dealt with on an individual basis. It's not added up to other complaints the officer may have.
It will not stop the legal proceedings at all. If they officer has done something wrong it will still go to court but will just be picked up by a defence solicitor and the case throw out of court.

No form has to be given for account anymore , this was abolished well over a year ago.

 

[kanecullen89]

I'll tell you the story of when I was last stopped by police:

I was driving way to fast in a residential area of my home town. Police pulled up behind me and stopped me.
I cooperated with them, apologised, they gave me a bollocking and sent me on my way with a slap on the wrist. End of story

 

[rustynlc]

Coppers think they rule the roads, this same scenario happened to me, a cop car was parked in the middle of a road I waited, they looked in the rear view mirror at me then carried on messing around with the computer, I decide 'sod this I'm going around them, I bumped up on the kerb and continued on my way, 2 minutes down the road, pc plod behind me blue lights and that, I pull over to have a gobby "Iam the law" copper in my face telling me that I had just commited dangerous driving, they said that I should of waited or found an alternative route, I replied with I did find an alternative route and bumping up the kerb was justified, they threatened to pass the details to the courts, sure enough a few weeks later I had a summons for dangerous driving and to appear befor magistrates, in court I was asked "why did you over take the police car and mount the kerb" my reply....... I was on route to the fire station, I was faced with a police car parked bang in the middle of the road restricting access so I mounted a kerb, the kerb was not a pathed kerb just the edge of the highway kerb, the judge then asked why I hadn't told the police I was on route to the fire station, I replied with they never once asked my reason for bumping up the kerb or why I was travelling down the road or my intended journey, the judge fined the police for obstructing a on call firefighter from responding to an incident, and made the police retake their advanced drivers course,

 

[Artimus]

...
It is also an offence not to give a Police officer your driving documents upon request....

Road Traffic Act 1988 s164(6) makes it an offence not to produce a license,
The legislation is here if you want to see it http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/164

s164(7)(b) allows the seven days to hand it into police. This subsection relating to the seven day time period is technically a defence to the original offence of failing to produce your licence at the road side when the request is made by a Police officer (S164(6))

Oh and to have a producer you have to give your name, date of birth and address.

so what you're saying in effect is that it's not a criminal offence to fail to hand your driving documents to a Police Officer at the roadside when he\she asks for it?

and just for clarity: I'm not hating on the Police. They generally do a great job considering the P. Hillocks out there that they have to deal with on a daily basis ...But I won't allow my respect of the majority to be taken advantage of by a few dweebs that signed up for a power trip.

 

[kanecullen89]

Coppers think they rule the roads, this same scenario happened to me, a cop car was parked in the middle of a road I waited, they looked in the rear view mirror at me then carried on messing around with the computer, I decide 'sod this I'm going around them, I bumped up on the kerb and continued on my way, 2 minutes down the road, pc plod behind me blue lights and that, I pull over to have a gobby "Iam the law" copper in my face telling me that I had just commited dangerous driving, they said that I should of waited or found an alternative route, I replied with I did find an alternative route and bumping up the kerb was justified, they threatened to pass the details to the courts, sure enough a few weeks later I had a summons for dangerous driving and to appear befor magistrates, in court I was asked "why did you over take the police car and mount the kerb" my reply....... I was on route to the fire station, I was faced with a police car parked bang in the middle of the road restricting access so I mounted a kerb, the kerb was not a pathed kerb just the edge of the highway kerb, the judge then asked why I hadn't told the police I was on route to the fire station, I replied with they never once asked my reason for bumping up the kerb or why I was travelling down the road or my intended journey, the judge fined the police for obstructing a on call firefighter from responding to an incident, and made the police retake their advanced drivers course,

I've got to admit, that last section sounds massively far fetched to me.

You've stated that the police got fined for obstructing an on call firefighter. But you also state that in court you told the 'judge' (I'm guessing is was more likely a magistrate) that you hadn't told the police that you were on the way to the fire station.

Under 'The Emergency Workers (Obstruction) Act 2006', the person causing the obstruction must know that the person they are obstructing is an emergency service worker and is at or preparing for an emergency. Hence, the police wouldn't have known because you didn't tell them and thus didn't commit an offence.

Also I'm not sure under what part of law the court can order the officer in question to retake their advanced drivers course (not a legally binding or required course).

The police aren't fire breathing monsters, they work with all other emergency workers. I'm sure if you'd have told them you were on way to the fire station they would have just let you go

 

[jojo]

I remember a time not too long ago, when you see a police car, all sorts of thoughts goes through your mind. If they start to follow you, the first thing is 'am I driving at the correct speed?', then it's 'am I insured, is my cars mot upto date?', they did rule the road, it was fearful just to see a police car in the road, they commanded respect!

Not these days though, we all think we're above the law, and speak back to them! What ever happened?

 

[s33nyboy12]

I'm being lazy and I've only read the first page of threads but all you need to know in my book and from my previous experience with police is get a wicked solicitor! I've won every time I've been to court. Last time I even got my money back as I'm not entitled to legal aid. A good solicitor is worth it's weight in gold. That's if you go to court. Solicitor I know got my mate off before court because he found so many faults in the coppers paperwork it got chucked out before.

Sean

 

[rustynlc]

I've got to admit, that last section sounds massively far fetched to me.

You've stated that the police got fined for obstructing an on call firefighter. But you also state that in court you told the 'judge' (I'm guessing is was more likely a magistrate) that you hadn't told the police that you were on the way to the fire station.

Under 'The Emergency Workers (Obstruction) Act 2006', the person causing the obstruction must know that the person they are obstructing is an emergency service worker and is at or preparing for an emergency. Hence, the police wouldn't have known because you didn't tell them and thus didn't commit an offence.

Also I'm not sure under what part of law the court can order the officer in question to retake their advanced drivers course (not a legally binding or required course).

The police aren't fire breathing monsters, they work with all other emergency workers. I'm sure if you'd have told them you were on way to the fire station they would have just let you go

i was summoned to appear before the magistrate for failing to produce licence and driving in a dangerous manner (mounting kerb), the police reported me and my vehicle to the courts, the police officer that forward my details was made to retake his advance drivers course due to his own actions of stopping in the middle of the road, they fell victim to their own camera, the fire and rescue service opened there own case against the police as they hindered the response of a firefighter resulting in the appliance not being able to respond, my alerted was sounding in my car, I was in uniform and in my rear window I had a a4 poster that read, "on call firefighter" with the brigades badge! Instead of them following the correct approach(to follow the car to the station and to ensure i was responding" they decided to pull me over a minute from the station,

 

[A19quattro]

What about this?
Policed By Consent - Unite The Kingdom - YouTube

 

[davc]

I remember a time not too long ago, when you see a police car, all sorts of thoughts goes through your mind. If they start to follow you, the first thing is 'am I driving at the correct speed?', then it's 'am I insured, is my cars mot upto date?', they did rule the road, it was fearful just to see a police car in the road, they commanded respect!

Not these days though, we all think we're above the law, and speak back to them! What ever happened?

Why shouldn't you talk back to them? They are not god and they certainly do not rule the road. I've witnessed their cheek first hand in the past and didn't stand for it.

A quick call to the station asking to speak to the chief constable and reporting the jobsworths, led to an apology from the bacon buttie muncher in question.

I'm being lazy and I've only read the first page of threads but all you need to know in my book and from my previous experience with police is get a wicked solicitor! I've won every time I've been to court. Last time I even got my money back as I'm not entitled to legal aid. A good solicitor is worth it's weight in gold. That's if you go to court. Solicitor I know got my mate off before court because he found so many faults in the coppers paperwork it got chucked out before.

Sean

Hear hear.

My dad got fitted up by a couple of plod years ago - they claimed he ran a red light, whilst they were parked up a side street. In court his brief tore them to shreds. He proved they couldn't have possibly seen the light on red from the position where they were parked.

 

[Abb]

have to stop you there! It's not a legal requirement in England to carry your driving documents or any other form of I.D. as it is in some other Countries. So you Do Not have to give over your driving documents when requested by a Police Officer, as you may not have them with you.

That's why there are such things as Producers.

Could you please enlighten us, as to where you are obtaining your well researched information? It couldnt actually be more inaccurate!

 

[Abb]

I'm being lazy and I've only read the first page of threads but all you need to know in my book and from my previous experience with police is get a wicked solicitor! I've won every time I've been to court. Last time I even got my money back as I'm not entitled to legal aid. A good solicitor is worth it's weight in gold. That's if you go to court. Solicitor I know got my mate off before court because he found so many faults in the coppers paperwork it got chucked out before.

Sean

Says it all really, peoples sheer and utter reluctance to accept responsibility for their action at whatever costs. Guess I am just old fashioned.......if I am in the wrong (whether I agree with it or not is a separate issue) I accept my fate. How strange I know.

That said, you wouldnt have to find a '"wicked"" solicitor as Sean suggests, just follow the legal advice handed out for free on here and save yourself a fortune, as it really is priceless!

 

[Artimus]

Could you please enlighten us, as to where you are obtaining your well researched information? It couldnt actually be more inaccurate!

****** ell, it's on the same page as linked to by zerocool! It says you have to produce it, but it doesn't say you have to produce it there & then as zerocool intimated.

We don't live in a Police State just yet ...although some would have us believe we do.

So can you now link me to where you source your "more accurate"information?

 

[Abb]

****** ell, it's on the same page as linked to by zerocool! It says you have to produce it, but it doesn't say you have to produce it there & then as zerocool intimated.

We don't live in a Police State just yet ...although some would have us believe we do.

So can you now link me to where you source your "more accurate"information?

Just to claify, I didnt state in highlighted text, what documentation we do or do not have to produce when requested, when driving a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road, for the purposes of the road traffic act. Zerocool has quoted the correct legislation covering this matter, relating to driving on UK roads.

 

[Artimus]

Just to claify, I didnt state in highlighted text, what documentation we do or do not have to produce when requested, when driving a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road, for the purposes of the road traffic act. Zerocool has quoted the correct legislation covering this matter, relating to driving on UK roads.

Zerocool has quoted the correct legislation, yes on that we agree! but he's taken it out of context and, as a result, misinterpreted the meaning. It eems you've either taken his word for it (without researching it yourself) or you've made the same mistake.

If a person required under the preceding provisions of this section to produce a licence [F26and its counterpart] or state his date of birth [F27or to produce his certificate of completion of a training course for motor cyclists]. . . fails to do so he is, subject to subsections (7) [F28to (8A)] below, guilty of an offence.

Subsection (7)

Subsection (6) above does not apply where a person required on any occasion under the preceding provisions of this section to produce a licence

(b)

7(b)
within seven days after that occasion, produces such a receipt in person at a police station that was specified by him on that occasion and, if required to do so, produces the licence [F32and its counterpart] in person immediately on [F33their] return at that police station.

If you read it in its correct context, you'll see that Subsection (7) nullifies Subsection (6) if you produce within the alloted 7 day grace period! Meaning no offence has been committed.

Again...

Subsection (6) above does not apply

...IF... Subsection 7 is in effect. It's not a defence, it's an Entitlement!

The law is an *** because they've written much of it backwards. me Lud.

 

[voorhees]

This thread is a lively one,so many keyboard barristers on here I never realised.

 

[_Zerocool_]

I'm not trying to take anything out of context. I feel obliged to correct some things people have put on here to prevent someone doing what has been suggested and getting themselves into a lot of trouble. I just want to help that's all.

S7 is a defence. The original offence is committed at the road side. If you fail to produce within the 7 days then you will be reported for the original offence at the roadside not for failing to produce within the 7 days.
It is an offence not to produce your licence to a Police officer if you are the driver or suspected driver.

I'm not going to argue any more. Do what you like.