QUATTRO REAR SUSPENSION

Andy9

Andy9

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Hi all, and very happy new year to you all, well can someone please put me right on my rear suspension height/sag, 2 years ago when i bought my 2004 A4 B6 1.9tdi sport quattro i gave it a full once over and replaced quite a few parts all over the car, i replaced my rear shocks which were in a terrible state (sport sus, red shocks) and replaced them with brand new genuine audi ones which were for quattro models but for a B7 (8e0 513 036 c, i managed to fit them but noticed the piston rod was about 2" shorter than the original and i had to cut off 2" off the bump stop, at the time all seemed well and i didnt particularly notice any difference in the ride height, however just lately i have noticed how low the wheel arches are over the wheels more so on the drivers side and im struggling to get a single finger clearance between the top of the tyre and wheel arch.

Now what i want to know is is this down to worn rear springs only and nothing to do with the shock absorbers or is it because the rear shocks have a 2" shorter piston rod that is causing this and pulling the back down more than it should ? ?, having removed the wheels and looked at the rear springs nothing looks amiss, the springs are slightly rusty but dosen't look broken, the springs are original (3 pink stripes), i thought the ride height was determined by the spring only but i might be wrong, ive got to do something with this as when i recently had family members sitting in the back seats over christmas the tyres kept brushing against the wheel arches when cornering, sorry for the long post but just trying to explain as clearly as poss, i dont want to spend unnecessarily buying the wrong parts, by the way the car has now done 178,000 mls, cheers, andy
 
My guess is that you have lowered the back and possible put more strain on the springs than they were meant to take .If so I assume that You need to go back to the right height and maybe replace both perhaps getting away with used springs to keep the cost down but I would go new on the shocks.Didnt you notice any change in the headlights if the front is still original?
 
Well the headlights are another story!!, but yes I had to replace both headlights because of broken beam adjusters and failed mot but both beams needed to be angle down more, I do think your possibly right though as it did bother me replacing the rear shocks and could see there were differences and a shorter piston rod but to be honest they look more beefier than the spindly stock ones, I could not get the original part numbers off the shocks as they were rusted badly but I've kept them as a reference, I have also aquired a full set of Audi sports shocks from a A4 B7 2.0tdi that I bought secondhand but the rear shocks are exactly the same as the new ones fitted to the car but I was assured they'd fit ok and thought they'd make a good set of spares. what I gonna try once weather is better is to take rear wheel off and remove the shock absorber one side, put the wheel back on and see how the car sits then, I didn't really want to go to the expense of replacing both springs and shocks but might have to, thanks for your help.
 
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You may need others to input cos my knowledge is largely based on helping my son change springs and shocks on his S3.Just seems that logically if you had to cut the bumpstops down the upper mounting is lower than before and the spring is more compressed than it should be.On the other hand if you know that the overall length of the shock was the same and only the piston was different then there must be another reason perhaps that the springs need changing assuming the shocks are still ok.If all three sets of shocks are the same length then got to be the springs which obviously have done a lot of work and as I remember my son saying you cant expect them to keep their strength indefinitely.Either way you seem to have a task on your hands
 
Thanks for you help Mike, well the shocks have only done 10,000 miles from new,but the more I think about it putting the old and new shock absorbers side by side the new ones has about a 2" shorter piston rod, the new ones a friend got me them through the trade and were to fit A4 and S4 quattro with sports suspension but are for B7 models and was told the B6 and b7 suspensions are the same, the part number is (8E0 513 036 C), I'm beginning to think upon fitting these shocks it's pulling the back end down compressing the spring slightly, I did read another post on here a few weeks ago where someone had changed their B6 Avant shocks for B7 ones and again had to cut the bump stops, but no problems other than this, I can't remember the post.
 
But is the overall length the same?If the shock itself is shorter it would have to pull the height down and made the spring compress more
 
No the new shocker is shorter by 48mm or just under 2in, lining them both up from side to side the shock bodies are the same, but the new piston or is shorter, is tried to take some pics for you to see, looking at the tyre and wheel arch distance you could say it looks ok but when anyone sits in the back the wheel arches are over the tyres, it slightly worse on drivers side than passenger side, hope you can see pics.
 

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Seems to settle it.They are not long enough and you were misled more than once.I wouldnt like to drive it like that
 
Just looked at my 04 2.5tdiQ Sports Avant .Hard to tell if the clearance looks much more than yours but I can get 2 fingers min inthe gap allround.Done 120k on originals so maybe slightly smaller than it should be but I dont know how much is normal for a Sports.Only has light use but will keep an eye on it.Plenty to worry about on these but such a nice engine when running well.Auto too.18s with 245 40 s probably take a little more space compared with the original 225s
 
Yes I can get a good 2 fingers in on the fronts, not sure what do really, just replace like for like with the old shocks or change the springs as well at the same time, just expense really, i tried to find out exactly what 8e0 513 036 c shocks fit and I think they should be the correct ones as the old ones are superseded by the new type but it's difficult to find out anything online, I rang Audi Leicester and they couldn't tell me, I can sell them on but I need to know exactly what vehicle there for.
 
This is the type of risk we take in running these older cars.Bills can amount to a large part of their current value assuming the funds are available in the first place.My son assures me that his 02 S3 is holding its value cos its a good one and in its modified form compares well to a lot of later stuff.The quattros do well when winters are hard too.He had a 1.9tdi Q Avant just before the last bad spell which he sold for a profit afterwards.Seems that you cant wait too long to fit the right shocks .The roads are so bad round here that i hate to think of the likely damage if you hit a pothole with little clearance .You could take a chance on the springs but new would be best of course.Shame its too late to go back to Audi with the wrong ones but there must be something on them somewhere out there
 
Well Mike I've had this car nearly 2 yes now and I must have spent over £1000 just getting the car into a good solid order, brakes, suspension, turbo, I suppose I'm lucky that I do all the work myself saving all the labour, I love the B6 Audi, it took me a long time to find a decent one and then had to go to Scotland to buy it !!, But I'm getting a bit fed up of constant repairs with it, sorry to moan, symptoms of getting older!!, I've still got my 21 yr old Ming blue A4 b5 1.8 20v in the garage which I've owned for 17yrs and I'm tempted to put that back on the road in April when my insurance is due, great car, good build quality, I've never had any of the problems that I've had with the B6, I think it would be best to change both springs and shocks to make a proper job of it, anyway thanks for your input and nice to speak to you, cheers, andy
 
I would try changing just the springs before splashing out on more shocks, with the mileage you've got out of them I'd say the springs are weak. The arch gap unloaded looks about right
 
Hi Hitman1978, well yes they've only done just over 6,000 MLS, I think the best way forward would be to take off the shock absorber one side and refit the wheel and see if this makes a difference to the height, got to say unladen the ride height looks about right, problem is if someone sits in the back seats or suit cases in boot the tyres start rubbing on wheel arches and the car then looks very low, I wonder if the springs are going soft and compress to easily
 
Hi hitman1978, i think I'm gonna try a new set of springs first, when the car is unladen the ride height looks ok, perhaps slightly low, the problem is when anyone sits in the back or heavy stuff in the boot, then the rear does look physically to low, perhaps the springs have gone soft, 13yrs old,179,000mls,
Although I'm still trying to fathom whether it's being caused by the 2" shorter piston rod of the shocker, surely when tightening down the new shock with the shorter rod will pull the body down further, if that make sense but I'm not sure
 
Well Andy I think we have established that the shocks arent right and thats why you have a problem which means the car is only safe when unladen.The springs arent new and have suffered from the short shocks for 2 yrs which means they really ought to be replaced.Seems a good idea to see what it looks like if you remove the shock if you think thats worth the trouble but I bet it goes back to the right height .If its basically a good car but if its peed you off why not get rid and let someone else sort it.The 1.8 is a good engine thats what is in the S3 which he has cleaned up and had remapped.It has all the mod cons and goes so you wouldnt think it was 16yrs old ...also Ming blue I think... looks great .Last year we clubbed together for a TT 02 Quattro roadster same 1.8 of course metallic black bodywork looks near new and compares well with my neighbours new A3 convertible which cost 20 times as much and scares her every time she tries to get in her old garage.Its probably depreciated more in 6mos than the TT cost us and the TT can sit on the drive with a hood cover.I hope things work out.Mike
 
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Well thanks Mike, to be honest I think your totally right, I'm going to replace springs and new shocks again,the more I think about it I do think that if I removed the shocker and put the road wheel back on the proper ride height would be restored, also because car has been run for a while with the rear springs partially compressed and because of the mileage I will replace with new ones.

Have been looking are videos on YouTube how to remove the rear springs but abit unsure how hard this job is going to be, some make it look reasonably easy and some look hard, lowering the rear subframe etc, ok if you got a lift but difficult doing it with jacks and axlestands, I won't sell it, just having a moan, I've put to much money and time getting the car into a good condition, got to say most of the work I've had to do on the car is because of a previous lack of maintenance (long life c--p) even though the car has a full service history mostly with Audi, by the way your TT sounds good
 
There used to be a great site called AudiDIY. It's still there, but links all gone. I've done this job on a B5 Quattro Avant and it was straight forward, but remember reading B6 Rear coil spring fitting is tight. Link here: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/114492-B6-B7-A4-Suspension-Removal-and-Install

Sport springs are stiffer, and will compress over time, but the shorter damper is the cause. When the spring is compressed with Draper tool or such like (God knows how they were fitted in the first place), and then released and the weight of the vehicle is back on level ground that will give you the correct ride height.

Fit genuine kit and forget having to do this job again. Keep the old sport springs if they're genuine. I had to change mine every couple of years, but I was towing.
 
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thanks for your help spartacus68, ive ordered 2 new springs today £103 each, a bit steep really, and will get some new shocks that match up to the old spec, what i still cant understand when looking online for 8e0 513 036 c Audi shock absorbers it shows the old type like the old ones i took off, and yet my new genuine audi sport shocks have the number stamped on them and on one website it says for B6 or B7 sline or sports suspension including quattro, but dosent actually state A4, i wish someone could just put me out my misery and tell me exactly what car these should actually fit so i'm clear on whats gone wrong, surely they must be A4, thanks for the Audizine link, ive just had a quick look, do you know is it possible to view the photobucket images ?,
got to say im not doing this job untill the spring (sorry for the pun) when the weather gets better but think this job could be a bit of a pig, i wonder if its possible to replace one side at a time without having to jack the whole rear end up and off the ground, according to the Haynes manual its a bit vague, says a 4 spanner job but just says compress the spring and remove ?, dosen't say about unbolting anything ?
 
Just catching up Andy .Sounds a good plan although price of springs a bit steep.My son says his s3s were about £50 but at least you are on the way.We used simple spring compressor tools but I recall it seemed best to have 2 pairs of hands to keep the thing stable.Not easy to see how you got the short shock on without compressing the spring a little.The above list may point to a change in spec from 04 to 05 and theres no mention of a UK part all very odd cos why would they stock that part here?Were they used for a different model eg A3.I think I might look for the ones on my 2.5.Yes we did one side at a time best if one side stays stable on the ground
 
Been having a look today how best to do the job however as I said I'm not going to have a go untill springtime, not working on the garage floor this time of year, perhaps 20 yrs ago !!, I've got 2 pairs of standard spring compressors but neither brilliant, might invest in some new ones, I would definitely prefer doing one side at a time so only one side of car off the floor but I'm not sure if the subframe would drop just on one side with unbolting all of it ? Some articles say to unbolt rear upper arm (camber) and some don't mention, I would prefer not to disturb this but I should probably get an alignment afterwards anyway, I think I'm going to try just changing the spring first before buying any new shocks first, and I got to say I'm totally mistified by these part numbers, I can't remember having any problems fitting them and you would've thought I would have had to jack up rear end slightly because of the shorter piston rod but I sure I didn't else I would have known there was a problem.
Also just like to thank you all for your great info and advice it's much appreciated.
 
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Hi welshquattro, yes I seen this and I think this is exactly the same layout as mine, clicking on numb 14 the shock, there are quite a few shockers listed and have the same numb as mine but none with the letter c after them, to be honest I can't understand why there so many shocks listed in the first place
Thanks for your help, cheers, andy
 
Andy could it be that the springs were weak allowing the car to sit a bit low thats why the shocks went on easily.Also if you put on a new spring without changing the short shock will the spring be able to lift the car back up?I assume the piston wont extend any further to accomodate the spring.
 
Hi Mike, yeah good point, to be honest I think that the rear springs have possibly sagged, but also at the same time I'm not sure if shorter shocks are any good and going to fit ?, and might have to just play it by ear and won't know untill I actually remove the old springs and compare against the new ones, might Finnish up have to buy new shocks as well, been out in car today and have noticed a noise coming from engine area when accelerating, sounds like a dry bearing noise!!!, I planned in changing the timing belt and water pump also in the spring as it is due mileage wise, hope it's nothing to do with this, it never rains !!
 
Andy as I see it short shocks are no good to you cos you need to get some same length as the originals to get back to the correct ride height.If the new springs are taller I doubt if you could get the short ones on without the spring compressed.I havent forgotten your problem with finding the right ones but if you go to a supplier perhaps you can match with the originals to ensure correct length before you buy.Sorry to hear you have another niggle.I always use a long wooden handled screwdriver to listen on parts which seem noisy easy to do with something like a waterpump
 
Might sound like a daft question but have you tried jacking the car up? Should give you an idea if the shocks are too short or not
 
Yes, could be a bit of both, looking at the car unladen there's certainly not a lot in it, really just needs an inch higher, so really your right possible weak springs and shocks with to short a travel, had a bit of a change of mind I cancelled the springs I ordered with tps because of the cost for better or worse, and managed to source some quality springs on ebay item number (330691958620),which just happened to be in Leicester, I was assured that the ride height would be correct for sport suspension and to oe spec , so I'm more than happy and upon inspection before purchasing they looked good quality to me. When you installed yours did you use 2 spring compressors both sides of the spring, just wondering how these are to going to install with enough room, cheers, andy
 
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Yeah, I've jacked the car up with the cup under the diff lifting both wheels off the ground and can't see anything amiss, car jacks up as normal, when the wheels are off the ground there is a bigger distance between the wheel arch and tyre which tells me that there must be enough piston rod travel to allow for the spring if that makes sense
 
Yes we have a pair of compressors cant see it working with one on each side.Can you tell is theres much difference in the height of the new ones compared to the old?Do you think jacking up has pulled the rod out of the shock further?It seems very short for the body in your pictures
 
Hi Mike, no the shocks in the pic is my spare set which I managed to pick up cheap and thought they'd make a good spare set,the piston rods are fully extended,they are exactly the same as the ones on the car, I don't know the difference in spring length yet as not dismantled yet, on the videos online I've seen taking the rear springs off an A4 they all seem to use a single bar type compressor.
 
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