RS3 8V: One step at a time

arf @66

Registered User
just had 3 cups a coffee reading through all that so far:grinning:.as usual you always give a great in depth write up on your projects.brings me back to the good old days over on scoobynet.not sure if you remember me from sn,i was bigarf on there.itl be good to see what the finished product is.that's if there ever is an end to a project.i know with the scoob I could never stop modding.i did say I would keep the rs3 standered when I first bought it.2 weeks in and I had the decat pipes fitted and was booking it in for a remap.keep up the good work mate.
 

arf @66

Registered User
Hello mate..... didn't know you had gone to the German barge! :D
yeah,had it about 2 an half years now.i got the scoob to just about were I wanted it but just didn't get the time to use it for what I built it for.so I decided to let go and buy the rs3.a car I can use as a daily driver that still had potential for tuning.i was planning on leaving this one alone but I had the stage1 map done,then a little later fitted the intercooler,now I'm just waiting for the tte500 turbo to turn up to see how that goes.tbh I don't think itl be long before I go a similar route to what your doing.ive already sampled the syvecs and the gtx35 on the scoob with all the other trimmings.theres just something about having over 700bhp that gets the adrenaline pumping.:grinning:
 

Shaunee

Registered User
Things haven’t quite panned out as I had envisaged, but that’s always the risk when not going down the “off the shelf” route……

Putting it bluntly there have been some issues with being able to progress with the pre-production big turbo kit fitment. It has been suggested that the current manifold design may need some alterations made around the collector (which is where the five tubes meet for the turbo exhaust side). This will take at least 5 weeks to redesign and fabricate. Due to this, other competing workload and not enough hours in the day, I have been informed that it will be unrealistic to expect any real progress to be made on this until the Autumn.

Believe me, this is disappointing but it is what is it.

So I had a decision to make…… wait until the Autumn to start, and let’s be honest that could drift again, or take a different direction now. I chose the latter.

I don’t know how this will pan out, but until I try then I won’t know.

I have now decided to have a hybrid turbo created based on the OEM housing and manifold, so I have commissioned Litchfield and Turbo Dynamics to “crack on” with this.

I have done a fair amount of work with both of these companies in the past with hybrid turbos with really good results, so it will be interesting to see how this goes.

Ideally I never wanted to go down this route as this will fall well short of where I wanted the car to be powerwise, however, it’s more about the journey for me than any single result at any single point in time.

In some respects it fits better now into the Staged approach I prefer to take, being more of a Stage 3 conversion utilising the stock turbo frame.

Whilst I fully appreciate this has been done before by others, there are some ideas we’ve discussed to look at trying something slightly different to what is currently available.

I’ll still be keeping one eye on the big turbo development, but I won’t expect to be up and running properly with that until the next drag strip season. In the meantime I’m hopeful we can make positive progress with a hybrid unit.

I’ll update as soon as I start getting pictures and details back from Litchfield and TD.
 

S3Alex

Rarely neutral
Gold Supporter
Things haven’t quite panned out as I had envisaged, but that’s always the risk when not going down the “off the shelf” route……

Putting it bluntly there have been some issues with being able to progress with the pre-production big turbo kit fitment. It has been suggested that the current manifold design may need some alterations made around the collector (which is where the five tubes meet for the turbo exhaust side). This will take at least 5 weeks to redesign and fabricate. Due to this, other competing workload and not enough hours in the day, I have been informed that it will be unrealistic to expect any real progress to be made on this until the Autumn.

Believe me, this is disappointing but it is what is it.

So I had a decision to make…… wait until the Autumn to start, and let’s be honest that could drift again, or take a different direction now. I chose the latter.

I don’t know how this will pan out, but until I try then I won’t know.

I have now decided to have a hybrid turbo created based on the OEM housing and manifold, so I have commissioned Litchfield and Turbo Dynamics to “crack on” with this.

I have done a fair amount of work with both of these companies in the past with hybrid turbos with really good results, so it will be interesting to see how this goes.

Ideally I never wanted to go down this route as this will fall well short of where I wanted the car to be powerwise, however, it’s more about the journey for me than any single result at any single point in time.

In some respects it fits better now into the Staged approach I prefer to take, being more of a Stage 3 conversion utilising the stock turbo frame.

Whilst I fully appreciate this has been done before by others, there are some ideas we’ve discussed to look at trying something slightly different to what is currently available.

I’ll still be keeping one eye on the big turbo development, but I won’t expect to be up and running properly with that until the next drag strip season. In the meantime I’m hopeful we can make positive progress with a hybrid unit.

I’ll update as soon as I start getting pictures and details back from Litchfield and TD.

Hi Shaun...that's a real shame with the manifold.

Nortech did the manifold on mine and made a superb job of it....who designed/fabricated yours?

Good luck with the hybrid.....some of the TTE hybrids are giving very good results on the current platform cars,and I really hope that goes well,plus the Syvecs ought to bring in some useful gains there too.

I also know how disappointing it is when things don't go the way they should.....at one point we had the engine in bits for around 3 mths while we waited on parts that were scheduled to arrive.
 

Shaunee

Registered User
Hi Shaun...that's a real shame with the manifold.

Nortech did the manifold on mine and made a superb job of it....who designed/fabricated yours?

Good luck with the hybrid.....some of the TTE hybrids are giving very good results on the current platform cars,and I really hope that goes well,plus the Syvecs ought to bring in some useful gains there too.

I also know how disappointing it is when things don't go the way they should.....at one point we had the engine in bits for around 3 mths while we waited on parts that were scheduled to arrive.

The manifold is being created between Litchfield and Nortech. Nortech are that busy they unfortunately haven't the resource at the moment to progress. It will get sorted, but in the meantime I just want to get on with something else even if it's a stop gap.

Syvecs is another issue i'm afraid. Basically it doesn't work on the 8V! :( We were assured it would, but that wasn't the case when we tried. This needs much more development, which I can't wait for at the moment. We're now sticking with the OEM ECU for the time being.

So plenty of heart ache over recent months, but onward and upwards.

Delays and things not going to plan is all part and parcel of things that are not off the shelf.

It will all come good in the end I'm sure!
 

S3Alex

Rarely neutral
Gold Supporter
The manifold is being created between Litchfield and Nortech. Nortech are that busy they unfortunately haven't the resource at the moment to progress. It will get sorted, but in the meantime I just want to get on with something else even if it's a stop gap.

Syvecs is another issue i'm afraid. Basically it doesn't work on the 8V! :( We were assured it would, but that wasn't the case when we tried. This needs much more development, which I can't wait for at the moment. We're now sticking with the OEM ECU for the time being.

So plenty of heart ache over recent months, but onward and upwards.

Delays and things not going to plan is all part and parcel of things that are not off the shelf.

It will all come good in the end I'm sure!

Wow....you're not having an easy time there.

I found Nortech very helpful,but as with yourself,very busy.

As far as I knew,Syvecs hadn't got the ECU for the newer TSi out yet,but assumed they must have done as you had one....!
Will Syvecs support you with that?

It's extremely frustrating being held back,more so when it's on several issues.
Good luck with it all.....looking forwards to seeing how the hybrid goes.
 

Shaunee

Registered User
Stock blower is now off the car and is sat with Turbo Dynamics, being prepared for the custom Litchfield Stage 3 spec for testing!

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swlabhot

Registered User
I have a couple questions about the Milltek secondary decats.

1. Does it throw a cel?
2. Does it sound like stock quiet (with completely stock exhaust) when set in comfort mode?
 

Shaunee

Registered User
After what has been weeks (months) lol, my new Hybrid Borg Warner EFR Turbo has been done and is waiting for installation!

This has had extensive work to cram in a 7163 EFR core into the stock housing.

Cast inlet pipe and manifold have been ported.

Exhaust housing has been strengthened to account for the very large turbine.

Seals and actuator have been upgraded.

Can't wait until we test this.

Don't ask me how much power it will make.... we don't know! I'll find out soon though!!!

Core is capable of 550-600bhp, but it won't make that in this install due to the exhaust flow restrictions of the exhaust housing and manifold.

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Shaunee

Registered User
Slight misunderstanding of what was ordered and fitted. I've now got a full Miltek system on. Decatted and no centre resonators.

I'm going to see how this sounds.

Exhaust tips look good though!

The new VIS HPFP was also fitted this morning along with the NGK uprated spark plugs.

The car will hopefully hit the dyno tomorrow for initial testing.

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Stock DP:

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Shaunee

Registered User
With the new exhaust system fitted:
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Car had its inaugural Stage 3 run on the dyno this afternoon for logging purposes. The car made 430bhp on a short run to 5600rpm AND with only 30% throttle throughout the run.

This was literally for logging purposes and the real mapping work starts from here.

Can't wait to see what this turbo can do on a finished map with wide open throttle and the full rev range.
 

Shaunee

Registered User
Quick update.....

Unfortunately the car hasn't had any real dyno time over the past few weeks, but further progress has been made during the very limited dyno time available.

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As you can see the car is now over 500bhp with the mid range now taking shape with 485lbft. MAHA dynos tend to give around 5% less torque than most other dynos. I'd expect this to be well over 500lbft on other dynos.

As you can see the map is very very smooth and torque is strong and flat through the mid range. Exactly how I wanted it from a general curve shape perspective.

As before, ignore the peak figures for now. There's plenty more to do with the map. More boost, ignition map hasn't been optimised, cam timing hasn't been touched and fuelling map will be adjusted...... plus I'm still on the stock inlet!
 

KurtisBye

Registered User
Hi Shaun, love the thread, read your whole thread on scoobynet I had a hawkeye at the same time. Have you considered water meth? Or even better have you considered a meth/petrol fuel mix like on the scoobys? I keep wondering if it could be a good cheap route to more power.
Cheers,
Kurt.
 

KurtisBye

Registered User
Sounds a plan mate, can you see any draw backs to running the meth mix? Or any reason not to? Other than decreased mpg.
 

S3Alex

Rarely neutral
Gold Supporter
Hi Kurt,
I don't think I'm going to bother with WMI, but may try meth and 99 mix.

Need to get Stage 3 all finished on 99 first, but time has been really limited to progress.

For what it's worth,Storm took out the WMI system I'd previously been using,and got more power and less boost via the Syvecs,and I now have to say that whilst it seemed like a good idea at the time to run WMI,in retrospect it achieved less than I'd thought.

I think that with good mapping,and decent flow through the engine,it's not so useful.
 

Shaunee

Registered User
Sounds a plan mate, can you see any draw backs to running the meth mix? Or any reason not to? Other than decreased mpg.

The only drawback is that it's a bit of a pain in the ****.

As you know I ran meth in my Hawkeye..... gave +10% power with a 20% mix. It certainly works well, but isn't very practical imo.

I'm going to look (once the core package for 99 is finished) at other fuels in the future.
 

Shaunee

Registered User
For what it's worth,Storm took out the WMI system I'd previously been using,and got more power and less boost via the Syvecs,and I now have to say that whilst it seemed like a good idea at the time to run WMI,in retrospect it achieved less than I'd thought.

I think that with good mapping,and decent flow through the engine,it's not so useful.

Depends what you use WMI for.... if it's just for cooling then benefit will be minimal. If it's mapped for then gains will be greater..... problem then is if you have a failure in the WMI system.
 

S3Alex

Rarely neutral
Gold Supporter
Depends what you use WMI for.... if it's just for cooling then benefit will be minimal. If it's mapped for then gains will be greater..... problem then is if you have a failure in the WMI system.

Exactly.....and that's the pitfall I've always mentioned in my own thread.....by all means use it,but just bear in mind what happens if it fails,and you were relying on it at full boost!

I remember you saying that Syvecs for the current engine is a way off,but I was fortunate enough to find that Andy gained a lot more from timing and fuelling,and was able to switch off the WMI altogether,and I can't say I miss it at all.

I'd used it previously with the stock ECU and older turbos,without the head work on the engine,and I think under those circumstances it had some benefits,but not now....
 

KurtisBye

Registered User
The only drawback is that it's a bit of a pain in the ****.

As you know I ran meth in my Hawkeye..... gave +10% power with a 20% mix. It certainly works well, but isn't very practical imo.

I'm going to look (once the core package for 99 is finished) at other fuels in the future.

Yes this is the problem, the amount of litres needed to make it worthwhile also makes it a pain in the ****. Have you considered NF race or ultra it is much more practical but also much more expensive and the gains are perhaps not worth while?
 

Shaunee

Registered User
Yes this is the problem, the amount of litres needed to make it worthwhile also makes it a pain in the ****. Have you considered NF race or ultra it is much more practical but also much more expensive and the gains are perhaps not worth while?

I will hopefully get around to trying NF at some point and having the map changed to suit.
 

S3Alex

Rarely neutral
Gold Supporter

Shaunee

Registered User
Sorry.... it's been a while so time to update this thread. There's been a MASSIVE change in direction but here's an overview of progress:

September 2018
So, I had previously alluded to going a bit mental with Stage 3 and that ended up with the decision to pull the engine and forging it. The main reason for this was the fact that (at that point) I had decided I’d be keeping this car and wanted to remove any limitations the stock engine would have, opening up options for more extreme levels of power upgrades..... should I wish to change goals at a later date.

Many of you may say “But these engines are taking 700 bhp, what type of power are you looking at then?!” I’m a believer of making sure a package is fit for purpose. Sure, stock engines may be taking x bhp, but how much is wear being accelerated at higher levels of tune? I’d rather invest upfront and then have more options open to me.

I’ll divulge the full spec of the engine soon in a more detailed update but effectively I’m running Litchfield custom spec Capricorn forged pistons, custom spec Arrow rods and a modified head. Engine is built and about to go back in the ‘hole’ once it’s been run in on the engine dyno.

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October 2018
Engine is back in the hole and final fabrication work is being finished on the turbo kit. The ‘robotic’ welds on the manifold look amazing.
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As you guys know I like to test and get my own data using my car....

To assist with this a whole range of blowers have been ordered.

GTX3576
GTX3582
GTX3584

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November 2018
Last piece of the fabrication jigsaw was made and fitted today by the in-house fabrication team at Litchfield...... a nice “little” boost pipe.

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February 2019
Went over to Litchos yesterday to see the car and personally fire her up! I haven’t done that for a while!

They have a small snagging list to sort over the next couple of weeks and then the intention is for me to use the car and get some feedback to Iain before it goes back again. They’ll then pull the turbo kit off and get it sent away to be dimple heat shielded
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, once that’s done Iain will turn the wick up to 11 on the 3576.

We’re assuming the current fuel system will cope enough to max out the 76 (we’ll find out soon enough) but I’m currently looking at secondary injection and LPFP upgrade now as I’ll certainly need this to exploit the 3582 for when that goes on, let alone the 3584. A couple of options exist.

Once I’m in a position to do so I’ll start posting dyno and acceleration data on the 3576 setup, that’s when the fun really starts for me!

I’m aiming to keep the car as OEM looking as possible, both outside and under the bonnet. I’ve decided to retain the stock “horrible” wheels and going to put the front number plate back in its original position.

The engine bay looks Uber understated currently..... I think I’m going to junk the REVO intake and get a custom made black crinkle painted inlet pipe made up. Full stealthfest!

Looking at my engine bay you wouldn’t know it had a 3576 and custom manifold strapped on the back of it.

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Oh.... and I did take it out for a “gentle” punt
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yesterday, but more on this when I have some real world data to support any subjective comments.

Looks like the 3582 is trying to get in on the act already! Your time will come soon enough son!
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Shaunee

Registered User
This setup is definitely fighting me at every opportunity!

We’ve now fitted the GTX3582R GEN2 and VIS HPFP wouldn’t play ball. Fuel pressure was dropping to 105-110bar so didn’t allow us to use anymore than 1.3bar boost. LPFP and injectors were fine via logs and it appears to be the VIS HPFP. The pump was secondhand to be fair (lessons learnt).

After a number of conversations the recommendation was to either go with the latest 12.1mm LOBA or the APR unit. Due to being able to track down a LOBA unit (thanks goes to MRC for this!), we now have this baby in hand.

Time to fit and crank that boost up!

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Shaunee

Registered User
So.... LOBA HPFP fuel pump has been fitted and the car was put back on the dyno Wednesday evening for a quick sanity check. I think we can say fuelling is back and what a difference it has made! Just a sneak peak at some interesting info so far. 622bhp at the current rev limit of just under 7400rpm. On 99oct fuel at a paltry flat decked peak and held 1.25bar and 40% wastegate duty!
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As you can see the power is still on the rise even as the rev limit kicks in. Can’t wait to crank more boost in and extend the rev limit...... and really see what this GTX blower can do on this built engine on 99oct fuel!
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Full graphs when we get some real power.
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Shaunee

Registered User
For the moment this is where my RS3 8V.1 will be. 654bhp on the GTX3582 GEN2, on 99oct fuel and sub 1.5bar of boost at peak power. We are now all out of fuelling capacity but at a safe level on stock DI (it did make 675bhp but turned down slightly for safety on the fuelling side).

This project has fought me at every BHP, but now it’s time to have a bit of well earned fun for a couple of months.

This is on the stock airbox, Forge FMIC, GTX3582 with .83 hotside, Nortech turbo kit, Peron supplied TVS Stage 3 DSG, Litchfield forged engine and 99 fuel @ sub 1.5bar boost at peak.

Let’s hit the tarmac for some summer fun, before we get back on it over autumn.

Port injection to go on and then we’ll push the boost to 2bar. Once that’s been done we’ll stick the 3584RS back on. Then if that’s not enough we’ll see what it will do on E85!

Plenty more left to do and a lot of headroom left in power. See you all again in 2030!

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Shaunee

Registered User
So, after picking the car up on the Monday I was invited (like on the day of the event) to attend Mission Motorsports inaugural "Launch Control" event on the following Saturday. When I say "on the day" I mean I was out in the car already on Saturday morning and got a text to go over, so I immediately dropped what I was doing and headed over to Abingdon Airfield. I was actually out logging at the time and unfortunately had just filled up with a tank of Tesco Momentum. :D This wasn't about any event prep.... it was just a good opportunity for me to have a bit of a shakedown with the car to see where it stood in it's current "shopping car" state. ;)

Some very nice road cars turned up to see where they stood covering Mclaren, Porsche, Audi, BMW, Mercedes AMG and Nissan GTR along with a properly sorted RCM Bentley GT race car.

To cut a long story short I only did 3 runs on the day and stopped due to soaring charge temps (we were seeing temps touching nearly 60degs) and an error code being thrown relating to the HPFP.

Regardless of this the car achieved the following 1/4m times:

1st run: 10.7
2nd run: 10.5
3rd run: 10.2
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I was happy with how the car performed on these runs as a baseline on 99oct, PZero tyres and 100% full shopping car weight! :D

I'll be down Santa Pod in the near future to see where the car is down a proper strip.

Regardless..... I'm looking to fit my secondary port injection in the future, up the boost on the GTX3582 and then see where we are. After that I will be installing the larger GTX3584RS turbo.

It will be good to see where the car is on the black stuff as we progress through each step of the next round of upgrades.
 

Shaunee

Registered User
I was out in the RS3 yesterday for a quick run out to McDonald's :D and on the way back drove down a nice quiet and freshly laid tarmac national speed limit road. Obviously this was no drag strip official timing or did I have my Dragy in toe, but it was rude not to have a quick blat and I thought I would let my P3 gauge time this little stab to 60.

This is full weight fatty car, over half a tank of Tesco's finest and still shod in OEM Pzero 4yr old tyres.

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With a good grip set-up the times via these gauges are between 2-3/10ths off a Dragy (so can be inline with Dragy 1ft rollout). It is what it is.
 
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