RS3 rolling race rwd mode

Suly181

Member
Hi im considering buying the rs3 8y to turn it into a stage 2+ rolling race beast i realised that theres drive train loss due to awd but surely if u put it into “drift mode” it will eliminate that is this true or not and is it 100% power to the rear and will it keep upto the m2 and m3
 

Waq1

Member
Im pretty sure only a max of 50% of torque is sent to the rear wheels. 100% of that 50% can be sent to either wheel. Additionally you’ll have to wait a while before any tuning company can unlock the ECU to remap it, it took 2 years for the RS4.


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Mike.46

Well-Known Member
Hi im considering buying the rs3 8y to turn it into a stage 2+ rolling race beast i realised that theres drive train loss due to awd but surely if u put it into “drift mode” it will eliminate that is this true or not and is it 100% power to the rear and will it keep upto the m2 and m3
I wouldnt bet on 'drift mode' doing anything like that, in all honesty it's just a gimmick to allow donuts in a car park and in a straight line will do nothing, the system can only send up to 50% of the available torque to the rear and to do that the two rear clutch packs would need to be locked 100%.

As noted by a car on the dyno once it gets past the point that 4WD isn't required it reduces the power sent rearwards and most goes front wards

My lad used to drag race his (at the time) Golf Mk2 with Audi 1.8T 20 valve and full 4wd system from the Mk1 TT, we used a standalone controller for the Haldex operation, He used to say that once on the move about half way down the strip it was noticeable that turning the Haldex off (putting the car into front wheel drive only) resulted in the car pulling harder and a lower 1/4 mile time
 

Suly181

Member
Im pretty sure only a max of 50% of torque is sent to the rear wheels. 100% of that 50% can be sent to either wheel. Additionally you’ll have to wait a while before any tuning company can unlock the ECU to remap it, it took 2 years for the RS4.


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Hmmm interesting ive spoken to MRC and A revo garage and they reckon itll take 6 months to unlock the ecu and according to MRC its going to be one of the best cars to roll race
 

Suly181

Member
I wouldnt bet on 'drift mode' doing anything like that, in all honesty it's just a gimmick to allow donuts in a car park and in a straight line will do nothing, the system can only send up to 50% of the available torque to the rear and to do that the two rear clutch packs would need to be locked 100%.

As noted by a car on the dyno once it gets past the point that 4WD isn't required it reduces the power sent rearwards and most goes front wards

My lad used to drag race his (at the time) Golf Mk2 with Audi 1.8T 20 valve and full 4wd system from the Mk1 TT, we used a standalone controller for the Haldex operation, He used to say that once on the move about half way down the strip it was noticeable that turning the Haldex off (putting the car into front wheel drive only) resulted in the car pulling harder and a lower 1/4 mile time
Well the a45 has drift mode and if you look at the 60-130mph in drift mode theres a huge difference compared to when its in awd also ive seen several videos of the a45s keeping up with a m3 in rwd mode cant wait to see what the RS3 8Y is like once the ecu gets unlocked
 

Daggerit

Registered User
Well the a45 has drift mode and if you look at the 60-130mph in drift mode theres a huge difference compared to when its in awd also ive seen several videos of the a45s keeping up with a m3 in rwd mode cant wait to see what the RS3 8Y is like once the ecu gets unlocked
I think the difference is that there's no 'RWD mode' on the RS3. The system is capable of giving the rear wheels 100% of the torque sent along the prop shaft, but you still have to isolate the front wheels somehow if you want true RWD. I don't think that the RS3 system has a way of reducing the power sent to the front wheels so I think you're stuck with having torque distribution somewhere between an even front/rear split and FWD.
 

Mike.46

Well-Known Member
I think the difference is that there's no 'RWD mode' on the RS3. The system is capable of giving the rear wheels 100% of the torque sent along the prop shaft, but you still have to isolate the front wheels somehow if you want true RWD. I don't think that the RS3 system has a way of reducing the power sent to the front wheels so I think you're stuck with having torque distribution somewhere between an even front/rear split and FWD.
Unless of course the front wheels hit a patch of ice or similar and then all the torque must go to the rear end.

It can put 100% to the front which it will do in steady speed cruise mode for minimum drive train loss and max efficiency

And a maximum of 50% of the available torque to the rear then split equally across the rear axle I imagine when Launched :)

I wouldnt think that any 4wd car is capable of being selected to either completely front wheel drive or completely rear wheel drive
 

Daggerit

Registered User
Unless of course the front wheels hit a patch of ice or similar and then all the torque must go to the rear end.

It can put 100% to the front which it will do in steady speed cruise mode for minimum drive train loss and max efficiency

And a maximum of 50% of the available torque to the rear then split equally across the rear axle I imagine when Launched :)

I wouldnt think that any 4wd car is capable of being selected to either completely front wheel drive or completely rear wheel drive
If the front wheels hit ice then technically they'd get all the torque because it doesn't have a limited slip diff or any middle diff to pull power away from them. I imagine in reality what would happen is the car would apply the brakes to the front wheels to shift more torque to the rear, but it's still at the mercy of how much it can send back.

The RS3 can be completely FWD by declutching both packs in the rear diff I'd imagine, unless I'm missing something? And there's lots of cars that can go fully RWD (M5?), especially things like Land Cruisers and Shoguns that can select 4WD High/Low or RWD.
 

Suly181

Member
If the front wheels hit ice then technically they'd get all the torque because it doesn't have a limited slip diff or any middle diff to pull power away from them. I imagine in reality what would happen is the car would apply the brakes to the front wheels to shift more torque to the rear, but it's still at the mercy of how much it can send back.

The RS3 can be completely FWD by declutching both packs in the rear diff I'd imagine, unless I'm missing something? And there's lots of cars that can go fully RWD (M5?), especially things like Land Cruisers and Shoguns that can select 4WD High/Low or RWD.
Yh thats what im thinking im pretty sure it there’ll be a way to make it fully rwd or fwd and yes shoguns can be completely rwd aswell im a car dealer ive had a few of them and m5 can pretty much become fully rwd i think as time goes on someone will definitely be able to make them fully rwd or fwd
 

Suly181

Member
Unless of course the front wheels hit a patch of ice or similar and then all the torque must go to the rear end.

It can put 100% to the front which it will do in steady speed cruise mode for minimum drive train loss and max efficiency

And a maximum of 50% of the available torque to the rear then split equally across the rear axle I imagine when Launched :)

I wouldnt think that any 4wd car is capable of being selected to either completely front wheel drive or completely rear wheel drive
There are lots of 4wd cars that can become completely rwd im sure as time goes on therell be a way to make them completely rwd or fwd once tuners have unlocked the ecu and have figured how to make it rwd or fwd ill be buying one hopefully around September time.
 

Terminator x

Registered User
Unless of course the front wheels hit a patch of ice or similar and then all the torque must go to the rear end.

It can put 100% to the front which it will do in steady speed cruise mode for minimum drive train loss and max efficiency

And a maximum of 50% of the available torque to the rear then split equally across the rear axle I imagine when Launched :)

I wouldnt think that any 4wd car is capable of being selected to either completely front wheel drive or completely rear wheel drive
GR Yaris can do both afaik or at least push most of the power to either the front, rear or 50/50 split.

TX.
 

Daggerit

Registered User
Physically it's possible to do in general, but it just depends if the hardware and packaging limitations specifically allow in the RS3. Having an LSD on the front axle would help I imagine, but ideally you'd want some sort of clutch on each of the front axles individually for maximum control I'd think. And then you also need a way of making sure it doesn't just spin up the 'free' axle when it's disconnected, so there's a lot to do and I imagine that it would be cheaper just buying a car that's more suited to the job.

Why use AWD for a rolling race machine anyway? Why not just go RWD?
 

Suly181

Member
Physically it's possible to do in general, but it just depends if the hardware and packaging limitations specifically allow in the RS3. Having an LSD on the front axle would help I imagine, but ideally you'd want some sort of clutch on each of the front axles individually for maximum control I'd think. And then you also need a way of making sure it doesn't just spin up the 'free' axle when it's disconnected, so there's a lot to do and I imagine that it would be cheaper just buying a car that's more suited to the job.

Why use AWD for a rolling race machine anyway? Why not just go RWD?
Well ive been a massive audi fan and absolutely hate bmw the best bmw in my opinion is a m140i but could never see myself in one.i do like the c63 but ive absolutely gapped loads of modified ones in my old rs3 8v.my brother has a stage 2 m3 and im looking to race him and a few others when i do get another rs3 i think the only other car i would get is an r35 GT-R its one of the best awd cars for roll racing
 

Daggerit

Registered User
Well ive been a massive audi fan and absolutely hate bmw the best bmw in my opinion is a m140i but could never see myself in one.i do like the c63 but ive absolutely gapped loads of modified ones in my old rs3 8v.my brother has a stage 2 m3 and im looking to race him and a few others when i do get another rs3 i think the only other car i would get is an r35 GT-R its one of the best awd cars for roll racing
That's fair enough. If you're just sticking with Audi because you like them then I'd worry less about how the AWD system works at this stage and worry more about tuning the engine and gearbox, but that's just my opinion. As has been mentioned though, the ECU being cracked is probably a while off yet.
 

Suly181

Member
That's fair enough. If you're just sticking with Audi because you like them then I'd worry less about how the AWD system works at this stage and worry more about tuning the engine and gearbox, but that's just my opinion. As has been mentioned though, the ECU being cracked is probably a while off yet.
Well the reason im worried about how the awd sytem works is because having a awd car in roll race is a disadvantage because of drive train loss and a few other factors, Im trying to find out whats changed on the 8y engine but cant find much
 

Suly181

Member
I spoke to infinit performance about the ecu and a few other things like exhaust and other hardware mods and they seemed to be very knowledgeable but i dont rlly trust them at all
 

Daggerit

Registered User
I spoke to infinit performance about the ecu and a few other things like exhaust and other hardware mods and they seemed to be very knowledgeable but i dont rlly trust them at all

I’ve not heard a lot of good things about them to be honest. Where are you based?


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Mike.46

Well-Known Member
GR Yaris can do both afaik or at least push most of the power to either the front, rear or 50/50 split.

TX.
Not really, the OP is asking of the car can become RWD only
This is from the GR Yaris Press pack

“The full-time system is simple in design and light in weight – lighter than alternative twin- coupling or centre differential systems. Operation is electronically controlled with three modes the driver can select to suit their preference or the driving scenario. Slightly different gear ratios are used in the high-response coupling and rear differential, allowing greater drive force to be directed to the rear wheels even when there is no slip at the front wheels.

The mode options are: 50:50 Track mode, suitable for fast driving in any road conditions, from dry to snow; 30:70 Sport mode, to prioritise rear-wheel drive characteristics; and 60:40 Normal mode (the default mode), suitable for day-to-day performance.
The transfer case is constructed in aluminium and contains a hypoid gear, with bearing support optimised for rigidity. Lightweight aluminium is also used for the rear differential, which is integrated with an electronically controlled multi-plate clutch. The two units are connected by a three-joint, two-axis propeller shaft.
 

Suly181

Member
I’ve not heard a lot of good things about them to be honest. Where are you based?


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Im from manchester but going to glasgow and places far isnt an issue for me im always travelling far distances as im a car dealer and i do car recovery but yh infinit arent the best at all mrc would be the best place to go to in my opinion wrench studios and ecotune are very good aswell. Also ecotune,awesome gti and unicorn motorsport are good im very close with unicorn motorsport as i do recovery work for them
 

Mike.46

Well-Known Member
The RS3, or Golf R are based on the 'normal' cars in their range which are all front wheel drive, the RS3 drives the front wheels all the time through it's longitudinal engine and gearbox, the front drive can NOT be disconnected or altered except via the engine clutch/clutches which disconnects drive to both axles.

All that can be done is to fully engage the rear axle which then locks both axles together and splits the drive 50/50,

You can have any % drive you want (or the ecu dictates) from 100/0 drive front to back to 50/50, but you can never have more than 50% going rearwards

To get more than 50% going rearwards you either need a similar 'differential' like the rear one at the front or a different crown wheel and pinion ratio between the two axles that would try and drive the rear wheels faster than the front wheels......like the Focus RS does
 

billymc92

2022 Kemora grey LE Sportback
The RS3, or Golf R are based on the 'normal' cars in their range which are all front wheel drive, the RS3 drives the front wheels all the time through it's longitudinal engine and gearbox, the front drive can NOT be disconnected or altered except via the engine clutch/clutches which disconnects drive to both axles.

All that can be done is to fully engage the rear axle which then locks both axles together and splits the drive 50/50,

You can have any % drive you want (or the ecu dictates) from 100/0 drive front to back to 50/50, but you can never have more than 50% going rearwards

To get more than 50% going rearwards you either need a similar 'differential' like the rear one at the front or a different crown wheel and pinion ratio between the two axles that would try and drive the rear wheels faster than the front wheels......like the Focus RS does
I thought in torque rear mode 70% of the power went to the rear?
 

Mike.46

Well-Known Member
Not unless Audi have sneaked a centre differential into the gearbox
It 'could' transmit 70% torque to the rear but only when the front wheels are slipping, wheel spinning, maybe they limit the torque to 70% under those conditions where the fronts are slipping
 

Waq1

Member
The RS3, or Golf R are based on the 'normal' cars in their range which are all front wheel drive, the RS3 drives the front wheels all the time through it's longitudinal engine and gearbox, the front drive can NOT be disconnected or altered except via the engine clutch/clutches which disconnects drive to both axles.

All that can be done is to fully engage the rear axle which then locks both axles together and splits the drive 50/50,

You can have any % drive you want (or the ecu dictates) from 100/0 drive front to back to 50/50, but you can never have more than 50% going rearwards

To get more than 50% going rearwards you either need a similar 'differential' like the rear one at the front or a different crown wheel and pinion ratio between the two axles that would try and drive the rear wheels faster than the front wheels......like the Focus RS does

This was my interpretation to a T.


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Suly181

Member
Not unless Audi have sneaked a centre differential into the gearbox
It 'could' transmit 70% torque to the rear but only when the front wheels are slipping, wheel spinning, maybe they limit the torque to 70% under those conditions where the fronts are slipping
So do you think a rs3 8y will be good at roll racing and will it come close to an m3 lets say stage 2 RS3 8y vs stage 2 f80 m3
 

Daggerit

Registered User
So do you think a rs3 8y will be good at roll racing and will it come close to an m3 lets say stage 2 RS3 8y vs stage 2 f80 m3

Impossible to say, there’s way too many variables to make that comparison without knowing at all how much power it would be making or anything.


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Suly181

Member
Impossible to say, there’s way too many variables to make that comparison without knowing at all how much power it would be making or anything.


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Cant wait to see what the 8y is like when the ecu is finally unlocked and what changes did they make to the engine
 

billymc92

2022 Kemora grey LE Sportback
Cant wait to see what the 8y is like when the ecu is finally unlocked and what changes did they make to the engine
I personally don’t think there is any changes what do ever. The best thing that could be changed for us would be the rods as these are the weak parts that keeps wrecking engines on the previous model!
 

Suly181

Member
I personally don’t think there is any changes what do ever. The best thing that could be changed for us would be the rods as these are the weak parts that keeps wrecking engines on the previous model!
Yes i heard there was alot of bent rods on the daza engines the s3 was common for bent rods aswell
 

Mike.46

Well-Known Member
I personally don’t think there is any changes what do ever. The best thing that could be changed for us would be the rods as these are the weak parts that keeps wrecking engines on the previous model!
Depends how far you push them and whose tune it is tbh, Golf 8R is basically a 5 cyl with one missing, they will do around 100hp per cylinder on std rods, so an RS3 will do around 500 hp, but perhaps the mid range torque needs limiting.

Big problem with 5cyl is the cylinder pulses and the length on exhaust tract from cylinder 3 to turbocharger, early RS3 had EGT monitoring (Exhaust Gas Temperature) which protected the engine, my lads RS3 engined Golf Mk2 is limited by EGT as to how hard you can push the tune, it will easily see over 1000c, the Syvecs ecu is programmed to put lots more fuel in around the 975c to try and cool it down.

A lot of tuners found the EGT getting in the way so disabled it ffs...................ends up with either a knackered piston or the piston starts to seize and causes the rod to break, always piston number 3

When I rebuilt/forged his RS3 I thought I would try and sell the old pistons on ebay, I sold all 5 individually over about 4 months to presumably people who tried too hard with the tune :sadlike:
 

T-1000

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
Depends how far you push them and whose tune it is tbh, Golf 8R is basically a 5 cyl with one missing, they will do around 100hp per cylinder on std rods, so an RS3 will do around 500 hp, but perhaps the mid range torque needs limiting.

Big problem with 5cyl is the cylinder pulses and the length on exhaust tract from cylinder 3 to turbocharger, early RS3 had EGT monitoring (Exhaust Gas Temperature) which protected the engine, my lads RS3 engined Golf Mk2 is limited by EGT as to how hard you can push the tune, it will easily see over 1000c, the Syvecs ecu is programmed to put lots more fuel in around the 975c to try and cool it down.

A lot of tuners found the EGT getting in the way so disabled it ffs...................ends up with either a knackered piston or the piston starts to seize and causes the rod to break, always piston number 3

When I rebuilt/forged his RS3 I thought I would try and sell the old pistons on ebay, I sold all 5 individually over about 4 months to presumably people who tried too hard with the tune :sadlike:

Disabling knock sensitivity = disaster


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Suly181

Member
Depends how far you push them and whose tune it is tbh, Golf 8R is basically a 5 cyl with one missing, they will do around 100hp per cylinder on std rods, so an RS3 will do around 500 hp, but perhaps the mid range torque needs limiting.

Big problem with 5cyl is the cylinder pulses and the length on exhaust tract from cylinder 3 to turbocharger, early RS3 had EGT monitoring (Exhaust Gas Temperature) which protected the engine, my lads RS3 engined Golf Mk2 is limited by EGT as to how hard you can push the tune, it will easily see over 1000c, the Syvecs ecu is programmed to put lots more fuel in around the 975c to try and cool it down.

A lot of tuners found the EGT getting in the way so disabled it ffs...................ends up with either a knackered piston or the piston starts to seize and causes the rod to break, always piston number 3

When I rebuilt/forged his RS3 I thought I would try and sell the old pistons on ebay, I sold all 5 individually over about 4 months to presumably people who tried too hard with the tune :sadlike:
Yh whys it always piston number 3 a mate of mine has an rs3 his 3rd piston went and same for my old s3 stage 3
 

Mike.46

Well-Known Member
Impossible to say, there’s way too many variables to make that comparison without knowing at all how much power it would be making or anything.


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It was very interesting to hear Billymc92 say that on the rollers at higher speed the torque split ends up around 90% to the front.

I would guess that around 500hp would be acheivable from just the ecu and maybe some exhaust work, over that I wouldnt be happy with a std engine, I think you'd really want some forged rods and pistons in it,

Saying that though the likes of iroz in the USA are getting huge hp out of the 8v
 

Mike.46

Well-Known Member
Yh whys it always piston number 3 a mate of mine has an rs3 his 3rd piston went and same for my old s3 stage 3
When Audi are worried enough to fit an EGT sensor to RS3 and TTRS it should really be trying to tell you something :)

Ive never seen an EGT on anything (std) before the 5 cyl lump
 

Suly181

Member
It was very interesting to hear Billymc92 say that on the rollers at higher speed the torque split ends up around 90% to the front.

I would guess that around 500hp would be acheivable from just the ecu and maybe some exhaust work, over that I wouldnt be happy with a std engine, I think you'd really want some forged rods and pistons in it,

Saying that though the likes of iroz in the USA are getting huge hp out
It was very interesting to hear Billymc92 say that on the rollers at higher speed the torque split ends up around 90% to the front.

I would guess that around 500hp would be acheivable from just the ecu and maybe some exhaust work, over that I wouldnt be happy with a std engine, I think you'd really want some forged rods and pistons in it,

Saying that though the likes of iroz in the USA are getting huge hp out of the 8v
Did @billymc92 say how much he made at the dyno id love to know, he did go to infinit for a dyno run and there dyno isnt at all accurate to be honest i hope he doesnt let infinit tune it once the ecu is unlocked hes better of going to ecotune or mrc
 

Daggerit

Registered User
Did @billymc92 say how much he made at the dyno id love to know, he did go to infinit for a dyno run and there dyno isnt at all accurate to be honest i hope he doesnt let infinit tune it once the ecu is unlocked hes better of going to ecotune or mrc

If you check his build thread it’s on there


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Suly181

Member
It was very interesting to hear Billymc92 say that on the rollers at higher speed the torque split ends up around 90% to the front.

I would guess that around 500hp would be acheivable from just the ecu and maybe some exhaust work, over that I wouldnt be happy with a std engine, I think you'd really want some forged rods and pistons in it,

Saying that though the likes of iroz in the USA are getting huge hp out of the 8v
And mate the iroz boys in usa are on a different league they’re amazing the amount of knowledge they have is outstanding
 
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