Scumbags of the highest kind that did this

Poor guy.

We all can get do rational things in the heat of the moment, so sad.

The car can be replaced, sadly he cannot.
 
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Poor guy.

We all can get do rational things in the heat of the moment, so sad.

The car can be replaced, sadly he cannot.

‘Rational things in the heat of the moment’ what planet are you living on.
This was a pre-planned event to steal the car at any cost. The owner was killed trying to defend his property.
These low life ‘feral’ scumbags trawling our towns and cities need to be taught a hard lesson.
A few years in prison, lording it up at tax payers expense, then back on the streets to continue his chosen trade.

If this was USA the house or car owner has the right to defend his family and property by any means possible, in this case the thug would have been shot dead in the house as he was an uninvited intruder. The local cops would have shook his hand and said well done fella another scumbag off the streets.



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‘Rational things in the heat of the moment’ what planet are you living on.
This was a pre-planned event to steal the car at any cost. The owner was killed trying to defend his property.
These low life ‘feral’ scumbags trawling our towns and cities need to be taught a hard lesson.
A few years in prison, lording it up at tax payers expense, then back on the streets to continue his chosen trade.

If this was USA the house or car owner has the right to defend his family and property by any means possible, in this case the thug would have been shot dead in the house as he was an uninvited intruder. The local cops would have shook his hand and said well done fella another scumbag off the streets.



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You sound like you base your world view on what you read in The Sun.

The guy made a typo, it's pretty obvious what we was trying to say.

I love that this made the S3 forum because it was an S3 that run the guy over.
 
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‘Rational things in the heat of the moment’ what planet are you living on.
This was a pre-planned event to steal the car at any cost. The owner was killed trying to defend his property.
These low life ‘feral’ scumbags trawling our towns and cities need to be taught a hard lesson.
A few years in prison, lording it up at tax payers expense, then back on the streets to continue his chosen trade.

If this was USA the house or car owner has the right to defend his family and property by any means possible, in this case the thug would have been shot dead in the house as he was an uninvited intruder. The local cops would have shook his hand and said well done fella another scumbag off the streets.



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Pretty sure @TDI-line is referring to the owner of the car rather than the burglar, as in we all say "just let them have the car" obviously at that moment the chaps thought was, 'you're not having my car' and he tried to stop them, sadly with the result it had.

It's just a shame the scum that took the car won't get a sentence that fits the crime.
 
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Agree with Tom.H - I'm sure @TDI-line sentiment was with the owner - and not the low life scum.

Here's hoping that whatever the sentence is they get (and it won't be long enough) is pure purgatory/living hell.
 
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‘Rational things in the heat of the moment’ what planet are you living on.
This was a pre-planned event to steal the car at any cost. The owner was killed trying to defend his property.
These low life ‘feral’ scumbags trawling our towns and cities need to be taught a hard lesson.
A few years in prison, lording it up at tax payers expense, then back on the streets to continue his chosen trade.

If this was USA the house or car owner has the right to defend his family and property by any means possible, in this case the thug would have been shot dead in the house as he was an uninvited intruder. The local cops would have shook his hand and said well done fella another scumbag off the streets.



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Think you've misunderstood what TDI was saying. Think it's a typo, and he meant to say irrational.

The rational think to do, was to accept the car was getting stolen, and remain in the house with his wife, and phone the police. As he said, a car can be replaced, his life can't.

But in the heat of the moment, and with adrenalin, he tried to defend his property. Scum just want what they want, and don't care if they injure or kill someone while doing it. This is why I always leave my car keys down stair in the Kitchen. If they want the car that bad, they can have it. Rather they're in and out, and not coming upstairs to get the keys. Heard far to many horror stories of people being woken up with knifes to their throats, or to their partners throat, just for the sake of a set of car keys. My only hope would then be, they crash the car at very high speed into a very big tree, and die in a ball of flames.

Lets just hope these scumbags get long prison sentences.
 
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Think you've misunderstood what TDI was saying. Think it's a typo, and he meant to say irrational.

Lets just hope these scumbags get long prison sentences.

If the UK judges are anything like the Aussie ones, the jail sentence won't even come close to be long enough - unfortunately

too sad a story
 
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Should be a good chance of a murder conviction and get sentenced to life. He deliberately drove over the guy a second time so that's not a man slaughter case. Makes my blood boil this. Evil scum bag.
 
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Judges can only impose the law as it is written and voted upon by your elected representative.

They can only deliver the sentence, they have no input on saying what the limits should be.

As such, your MP should receive your anger - not the judiciary.

RIP to the guy who lost his car, a terrible loss.
 
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RIP. In retrospect should have just let them take the car like someone on here already said, the car can be replaced unfortunately he cannot.
 
Yeah they will probably get away with it.

And hopefully not sue the widow like other burglars have.
 
Judges can only impose the law as it is written and voted upon by your elected representative.

They can only deliver the sentence, they have no input on saying what the limits should be.

As such, your MP should receive your anger - not the judiciary.

RIP to the guy who lost his car, a terrible loss.

Maybe in the UK, but in Australia judges and magistrates give sentences well below the maximum sentence, then can/will give short non-parole periods.
and sentences can then be served concurrently as well. Parliament here has on occasions changed the law to impose minimum sentences for various offences, always with significant backlash and criticism from the Judiciary.
 
Maybe in the UK, but in Australia judges and magistrates give sentences well below the maximum sentence, then can/will give short non-parole periods.
and sentences can then be served concurrently as well. Parliament here has on occasions changed the law to impose minimum sentences for various offences, always with significant backlash and criticism from the Judiciary.

A maximum is just that though. Minimum sentences are just that. There's a reason there's a gap in between where it's up to those who have actually heard the evidence to make a judgement.

Judges are way more qualified to do what they do than politicians are, the former requires years of training and experience, the latter?

I doubt that a politician could come to a rational decision even having heard all the appropriate evidence and whilst I am not familiar with what was tried in Australia, if they're anything like English politicians then they couldn't write a workable toilet cleaning process, forget an actual, rational, implementable law.
 
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A maximum is just that though. Minimum sentences are just that. There's a reason there's a gap in between where it's up to those who have actually heard the evidence to make a judgement..

As a public servant, my working day feels like an endless loop of 'Yes Minister'.

Judges & Magistrates here (as we essentially have the British legal system) constantly use the excuse that the public didn't hear all the evidence and are too ill educated and and uninformed to dare criticise sentences that don't reflect what the public expect. Crime against property is essentially not considered serious, after all the insurance company pays so the victim isn't really effected. Get assaulted, the sentences are measured in the months or maybe community service - the victim is effectively ignored and so on. I won't mention rape and abuse, as I prefer to chat about cars
 
As a public servant, my working day feels like an endless loop of 'Yes Minister'.

Judges & Magistrates here (as we essentially have the British legal system) constantly use the excuse that the public didn't hear all the evidence and are too ill educated and and uninformed to dare criticise sentences that don't reflect what the public expect. Crime against property is essentially not considered serious, after all the insurance company pays so the victim isn't really effected. Get assaulted, the sentences are measured in the months or maybe community service - the victim is effectively ignored and so on. I won't mention rape and abuse, as I prefer to chat about cars

To be fair, they're not wrong.

"Throw away the key, that'll learn them", except it doesn't. Is that what we're proposing? We should just extend sentences as if that will prevent it? It's proven that it doesn't.

The best penal system in the world is one that takes in a convict and returns a citizen - one where re-offending rates are reduced year on year but that system (the Nordic one) is lambasted by our politicians as too liberal - yet it has huge support from victims as well.

Is our current system fit for purpose? Hell no, not in comparison to those.

But saying"oh the sentences aren't long enough" or "Pfft, typical, stupid judges" without looking at the wider social context, the policies that cause this behaviour and what we then want our elected officials to do about it is pretty much the best example you could ask for as to why "the experts" are quite right to say "no, you don't know what you're talking about / haven't thought it through properly".
 
To be fair, they're not wrong.

"Throw away the key, that'll learn them", except it doesn't. Is that what we're proposing? We should just extend sentences as if that will prevent it? It's proven that it doesn't.

The best penal system in the world is one that takes in a convict and returns a citizen - one where re-offending rates are reduced year on year but that system (the Nordic one) is lambasted by our politicians as too liberal - yet it has huge support from victims as well.

As a public servant treating the public as ill informed and ill educated is not only insulting, but will also bring you undone badly.

the concept of 'justice' is not only must it be done, but also be seen to be done - no one is advocating through away the key - especially in Australia given our penal background

but as you make the point above the Nordic system is supported by offenders and victims alike - here the balance is 'seen' to be only in the offenders favour and time and time again lenient sentences in serious crimes is seen too support this view, property damage with no punishment also enforces the public view.
 
I do not think it is inappropriate to give the weight of someones opinion in line with their professional experience and training.

When you get on a plane or go in to surgery you don't expect to have others who have no experience of doing those things to have any input whatever in the decisions being made, or the actions that result.

As for justice being "seen to be done", I completely agree and often wonder why it is that of the hundreds of thousands of cases that are brought every year to our judiciary we only ever hear of those that sell newspapers and massage the basest of instincts in those who read them. Fear, jealousy, outrage, etc - all good for profit.

I've yet to see an article in the MSM that a) highlights the success of the Nordic approach (Channel 4 did an excellent piece on it a few years ago though) or b) talks of the successes (of which I know there are, or were, as my Granddad was a Magistrate before his passing many years ago).

Which again brings me to the point about the wider social context, about being informed enough to actually make a decision.

The electorate isn't - which is why we have a parliamentary democracy, we elect people who are supposed to spend the time informing themselves, listening to "experts" and thus coming to a rational and effective conclusion. Alas, even that doesn't happen - most politicians are driven by their own desire for power at any cost, rather than the greater good / good of the country, and will say and do whatever they need to in order to achieve it.

This event was a terrible one where the entire basis of judgement is being made on the final act that led to an innocent (as far as we know) person losing their life - no one cares "why" the perpetrators committed this crime, or why they thought they should do / had to, or why the owner of the vehicle valued it more than his own life.

And without that information (imo) we have absolutely no right to say we should be involved in the sentencing process, or that the sentence is too lenient or too harsh or whatever.

As a final comment, regards the Nordic system, the reason it has such widespread support from victims is because by and large they are the "last" victims of that offender due to the ever dropping reoffending rates. The issue that "y/our" victims have, is that "oh they'll be out committing the same crime again in no time". An awful feeling that quite rightly yields anger and frustration - neither of which is productive or helpful for the long term benefits rehabilitation would (and does) bring.
 
Yes he's got a minimum sentence of 27 years, just seen it on the news. Good to see justice being served.