Squeaky brakes - any fix?

[Rocketer]

True that race pads are more noicy for instance yellow stuff EBC but that its for race use and if somebody wants that is fine for me. Although they have choosed to have it and ok for them and they maybe drives on racetrac from time to time or something, no problem.

Standard brake pads should be free from noice/squeks and vibrations because they are ment to be used in daily traffic and the most of us 99 % don`t want it. Another thing is vibration which I can`t stand in brakes, wheels or whatever, it shouldn`t be there at all and something is wrong in some way. If the vibration should be there it would have been there in the beginning already and in every car.

For instance Audi and probably every brand is mostly saying that its no problem and it should be like this but every time they can fix it in the end so there was something wrong although they can`t admit it.

 

[Rocketer]

From Audi:

Checklist/Protocol – Routine for wearing in brakes for sporty driving
Driver: _______________________________
Veh. Ident. No. _______________________________
Veh. license plate No.: _______________________________
Date of routine for wearing in brakes: _______________________________

All vehicles with new brake discs and/or brake pads must wear in the brakes in order to achieve
optimum friction coefficients in later operation and the best possible braking effect, as well as to
prevent permanent damage to brake components.
Please check off the respective testing field after each braking procedure in order to ensure the
required number of braking procedures. It is essential to observe the sequence for wearing in
the brakes.
Wearing in the friction surfaces
Select a suitable route for performing the routine for wearing in the brakes.
Brake the vehicle 50 times from 100 km/h to 20 km/h.
Always allow the brakes to cool off between decelerations by driving for one minute at 80 km/h.
The braking manoeuvres must be made at a light deceleration that approximates braking
comfortably when stopping at a red light.
Achieving temperature-stable friction coefficients
To obtain optimal friction coefficients, new brake pads must be allowed to emit gas in a controlled
process.
Follow the 50 comfortable brake applications with five consecutive full brake applications.
However, avoid braking here in the ABS control range.
During these full brake applications, the friction surface fading temperatures must be reached. For
this purpose, apply the brakes fully to bring the vehicle from 100 km/h to a standstill, accelerate
again at full engine power to 100 km/h and perform a full brake application again.
After these five rapid, consecutive full brake applications, the brake pads are so hot that the
binding materials can emit gas.
On no account should you park the vehicle in this state. Instead, go directly to the next step,
"Brake cleaning".
Brake cleaning
When the brake pads emit gas, they leave a film of dirt and lining material on the brake discs.
Therefore, brake cleaning should be performed after full brake application.
Allow the brakes to cool off before brake cleaning by driving at 80 km/h for 10 minutes without
stopping.
Then perform full braking three times from 100 km/h to 0 km/h.
Between brake applications, a cooling off phase of 3 minutes at approx. 80 km/h must be
provided.
The braking system is now ready to be driven sportily.
I hereby confirm that I have performed the routine for wearing in brakes according to instructions and
without interruptions.



Where can you do these procedures in daily traffic? Just wondering?

 

[D19NL B]

lol that is actually ridiculous! why don't they just do that for you before the car is even delivered into the uk!!

 

[Rocketer]

lol that is actually ridiculous! why don't they just do that for you before the car is even delivered into the uk!!

This happened in Sweden and I don't know how secret this document is because its from headquarter here? Yes and I totally agre with you and thats the problem with Audi brakes VS for instance Porsches. I thought that these brakes are top notch but now I don't really know what to believe anymore? Big problem is also if I am gonna have problem every 10 000 km in the future x 25 000kr which is about 2000+ pounds. I am gonna keep the car for about 3 years and approx km is than 60 000 km, gonna be a huge bill or maybe it will work with easier braking theory, don't know?

 

[45bvtc]

How are the Dealers tackling this problem when reported to them ?

I had FREE AUDI VIP invites (self and wife) to the 2013 Goodwood Festival of Speed, plus a FREE 'second' AUDI Service along with the FREE 47i6 brake upgrade (discs, calipers, pads, etc.), Snake

OK, I had made a nuisance of myself corresponding with any name I could find at AUDI UK in Milton Keynes and Leeds including the then MD (Martin Sander) and while we were entertained superbly at the Goodwood Festival of Speed the only true £s value to me was the FREE 'second' service for my car as for sure the 47i6 upgrade did not resolve my low-speed brake squeal; I ended up resolving that again myself and have informed AUDI UK accordingly with full procedural documentation; talking 8P RS3 here...

And that's why I read the ongoing issues with some 8V RS3 cars with both frustration and amusement because as Rocketer rightly shows in his post #42 that in some countries steps are taken to resolve the issue but not to my knowledge here in the UK, and I did ask the question, in writing, when considering an 8V RS3...

 

[Snake Pliskin]

I had FREE AUDI VIP invites (self and wife) to the 2013 Goodwood Festival of Speed, plus a FREE 'second' AUDI Service along with the FREE 47i6 brake upgrade (discs, calipers, pads, etc.), Snake

OK, I had made a nuisance of myself corresponding with any name I could find at AUDI UK in Milton Keynes and Leeds including the then MD (Martin Sander) and while we were entertained superbly at the Goodwood Festival of Speed the only true £s value to me was the FREE 'second' service for my car as for sure the 47i6 upgrade did not resolve my low-speed brake squeal; I ended up resolving that again myself and have informed AUDI UK accordingly with full procedural documentation; talking 8P RS3 here...

And that's why I read the ongoing issues with some 8V RS3 cars with both frustration and amusement because as Rocketer rightly shows in his post #42 that in some countries steps are taken to resolve the issue but not to my knowledge here in the UK, and I did ask the question, in writing, when considering an 8V RS3...

Thanks for that.

I have experienced it a few times myself - intermittently rather than all the time ?

If it re-occurs this week I plan to book it in to have it looked at by the Dealer.
They can fix a rattle that has developed too on the dashboard.

The only other thing I have noticed is that the cooling fan tends to come on quite a lot ?
A lot of owners say its normal ... is that the same with the mark I RS3 ?

 

[45bvtc]

The only other thing I have noticed is that the cooling fan tends to come on quite a lot ?
A lot of owners say its normal ... is that the same with the mark I RS3 ?

Not at all, Snake, rarely if ever but then my 8P RS3 motoring is more open road/local and not town/city traffic; so I'd worry more about mine than yours as your fans seem to be cycling more frequently and that can't be a bad thing

Off out now in the A2, that's our preferred machine for local/town shopping...

PS: NO low-speed brake squeal in the A2, or our TT for that matter, just (was) in the RS3

 

[Rocketer]

My cooling fan is constantly running some time after parking the car after some inspirated driving and I see it more like the old school "turbo timer" to cool down the oil in turbo so it should be fine.

 

[Snake Pliskin]

My cooling fan is constantly running some time after parking the car after some inspirated driving and I see it more like the old school "turbo timer" to cool down the oil in turbo so it should be fine.

Yeah it doesn't take a lot to get it going ... but everyone says its normal so I guess nothing to worry about.

Give the car some 'thrash' and yeah you can be sure it will be on when you park up

 

[Schuey]

At 3200 miles I am now on my second set of front brake discs and pads and regardless of any so called 'protocol' for running in brakes there is a clear issue with the brakes on the RS3. Quite frustrating but overall disappointing for a premium band and their flagship RS model range.

I have now decided that once it gets outside of year 1 then it's time for it to go as I can't see goodwill replacement from Audi or the dealer after that point as brakes are technically a consumable. I was surprised to see how much the discs and pads cost out of warranty..........

 

[Gorillajebus]

3200 miles? Thats quite a short duration.

Did you get the discs replaced because of the squeaking or because of wear?
Iam on about 3200 miles right now and my discs are doing fine.

 

[T-800]

Same here brakes are great no issues at all.

 

[Schuey]

3200 miles? Thats quite a short duration.

Did you get the discs replaced because of the squeaking or because of wear?
Iam on about 3200 miles right now and my discs are doing fine.

Squeal initially at low speed followed by judder & vibration.

 

[Gorillajebus]

Can you describe the vibrations a little more?
I sometimes have vibrations too.

The brakes then make a sound. Its starting loud and getting quieter until its gone when braking from lets say 50 km/h to 0 km/h.
VVRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooommmmmm

It mostly happens when the car was standing for some time and the brakes are cold.
Although I had this sound and vibrations in the brake pedal also when the brakes were at working temperature.

 

[Schuey]

Can you describe the vibrations a little more?
I sometimes have vibrations too.

The brakes then make a sound. Its starting loud and getting quieter until its gone when braking from lets say 50 km/h to 0 km/h.
VVRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooommmmmm

It mostly happens when the car was standing for some time and the brakes are cold.
Although I had this sound and vibrations in the brake pedal also when the brakes were at working temperature.

Pretty much as you describe above..... Say for example going downhill and holding the brakes, you feel the judder and sound you describe.

 

[Rocketer]

Audi can call it whatever they like jidder, burr, vibrations and so on but brakes should be flawless from all that. When the car was new it hadn't any of that crap so it shouldn't be there now either after some use. It's a shame to the Audi brand also that they can't sort it out and fix that the proper way and go to the bottom with Brembo? How hard can it be? In Sweden it cost around 25 000kr to swap discs and pads but we have aftermarket brands which some tuners are selling here and they are spot on the money for probably better quality.

 

[Snake Pliskin]

At 3200 miles I am now on my second set of front brake discs and pads and regardless of any so called 'protocol' for running in brakes there is a clear issue with the brakes on the RS3. Quite frustrating but overall disappointing for a premium band and their flagship RS model range.

I have now decided that once it gets outside of year 1 then it's time for it to go as I can't see goodwill replacement from Audi or the dealer after that point as brakes are technically a consumable. I was surprised to see how much the discs and pads cost out of warranty..........

Did you have the low speed brake squal all the time or intermittent ?
I have experienced it a few times but not all the time.

 

[Schuey]

Did you have the low speed brake squal all the time or intermittent ?
I have experienced it a few times but not all the time.

Intermittent squeal but the vibration was every time younapplynthe brakes.

Brand new pads & discs front and rear cannot be cheap either? (Although at least it's solved the rusty hub problem)

 

[Rocketer]

Shuey: It feels that they should replace brakecalipers also because it didn't solve your problem and you still got vibrations which is not ok on a new car. Mine has been good after the replacement of discs and pads and I hope it gonna stay that way?

 

[Snake Pliskin]

Hmm I've had occasional low speed squeal but no vibrations.

I've booked it in now so will see what the Dealer finds on inspection.

 

[45bvtc]

Out in a 14-plate 15K Audi S3 Sportback yesterday (3-up) and the OEM brakes were amazingly good with excellent bite at both low and 70-mph speeds; and the brake disc surfaces both front and rear were just perfect, and zero rust on the bells: considering the cars (his S3 and my RS3) are virtually the same I'm get to fully understand why the brakes on the RS3 can be so problematic - not for all mind but certainly for some

Missed the RS3s 5-pot motor mind, big-time....

 

[Snake Pliskin]

I wonder if the 'wavy' design is too complex for its own good ... Looks good though

 

[Spaceman_RS3]

The norm on motorbikes is it not?

 

[Snake Pliskin]

No idea mate buy if it is a tried & tested design them even more strange that it's an issue to so many ... perhaps it is down to the OEM pads then.

 

[45bvtc]

I wonder if the 'wavy' design is too complex for its own good ... Looks good though
]

No, I don't believe the arrangement too complex, Snake

I still believe the issue is between pad and brake caliper pistons; on every RS3 suffering low speed brake squeal that's been though my garage, and most of those post-Audi dealer attempts at rectification, all I've applied is one of two anti-squeal solutions, either: a) Mintex self-adhesive anti-squeal shims, or b) Brembo/Mitsubishi stainless steel anti-squeal shims, and every time its been 100% successful.

I've even applied CeraTec and/or Copperslip and again it's proved a immediate improvement albeit temporary

And it's the same on both 8P and 8V arrangements in that low-speed brake-squeal doesn't occur on all cars only some; and some intermittent and others continuous; and I've stripped quite a few...

On my own car, where I've applied all of the above resolutions, my preferred solution, as said soooo many times, is EBC Redstuff - and there is the question: why does a change in brake pad construction and friction material make such a difference? And there's a lot of RS3s out there now with EBC Redstuff fitted front and rear and no squeal and/or vibration issues

But if you don't have a low-speed brake-squeal and/or vibration issue then stay with the OEM pads BUT just keep a close watch on the friction surfaces of the brake disc, 8P RS3 in particular, as the OEM pads do a good job of ploughing furrows deep enough to plant seeds

All said, our 8J Audi TT remains on OEM pads and noooo problems: I have tried Redstuff on this car and they were truly rubbish and 1000-miles on went back to the original OEMs

So why Redstuff works as well as it does on the RS3 but not on the TT I just don't know...

 

[45bvtc]

The norm on motorbikes is it not?

Could be the mass of the brake disc, Spaceman, and the distance 'out' of that large caliper from the axle; this has been suggested before and I think it has some merit especially as the same low-speed brake-squeal and/or vibration is being experienced on both 8P and 8V RS3s

Its certainly an interesting issue - I'm just happy that I've gone the way I have

PS: when I was actively chasing solutions in 2012/13/14 I was feeding everything back to my Audi Dealer and for sure they applied the same resolutions successfully to other Audi cars suffering the same problems though not as an Audi recommended resolution of course; this is not just an Audi RS3 issue

 

[Spaceman_RS3]

Yup I agree 45.

The thing that annoys me is the scoring the oem pads leave due to the pad friction material location pins. I want to fit the red stuff and retain the oem warning. I need to confirm the 8v rs3 plug is the same as the b8 rs4 then I will order a set of these.

 

[45bvtc]

Consider: the 8P RS3 had a 47i6 upgrade to resolve both low-speed brake-squeal and/or vibration and part of the package of: brake disc, brake caliper, and directional brake pads, were a pair of "tuned absorbers". Now these tuned absorbers, now commonly found on Audi brake calipers, are fitted suposidly to absorb the vibrations caused under braking (and it's that vibration you hear as brake-squeal): and here they are as fitted to one of the first modified Audi RS3s in 2012:

For me they don't work; I've had 'em on and off brake-squealing RS3s and zero difference: mine don't travel with the car, period: I want the cause of the problem sorted and not the resulting noise and/or vibration: all this stuff was once part of my job but thankfully no more....

Check out: Requill Tuned absorbers: http://www.rubore.com/en/products_and_applications/tuned_absorbers/tuned_absorbers.html

 

[Spaceman_RS3]

The 8v calliper has similar it's a cylindrical lump bolted to the calliper in full sight facing the disc on the front

 

[Snake Pliskin]

No, I don't believe the arrangement too complex, Snake

I still believe the issue is between pad and brake caliper pistons; on every RS3 suffering low speed brake squeal that's been though my garage, and most of those post-Audi dealer attempts at rectification, all I've applied is one of two anti-squeal solutions, either: a) Mintex self-adhesive anti-squeal shims, or b) Brembo/Mitsubishi stainless steel anti-squeal shims, and every time its been 100% successful.

I've even applied CeraTec and/or Copperslip and again it's proved a immediate improvement albeit temporary

And it's the same on both 8P and 8V arrangements in that low-speed brake-squeal doesn't occur on all cars only some; and some intermittent and others continuous; and I've stripped quite a few...

On my own car, where I've applied all of the above resolutions, my preferred solution, as said soooo many times, is EBC Redstuff - and there is the question: why does a change in brake pad construction and friction material make such a difference? And there's a lot of RS3s out there now with EBC Redstuff fitted front and rear and no squeal and/or vibration issues

But if you don't have a low-speed brake-squeal and/or vibration issue then stay with the OEM pads BUT just keep a close watch on the friction surfaces of the brake disc, 8P RS3 in particular, as the OEM pads do a good job of ploughing furrows deep enough to plant seeds

All said, our 8J Audi TT remains on OEM pads and noooo problems: I have tried Redstuff on this car and they were truly rubbish and 1000-miles on went back to the original OEMs

So why Redstuff works as well as it does on the RS3 but not on the TT I just don't know...

That is REALLY useful information thanks and good to know when I'm talking to Audi about the issue .... thanks a LOT !!!

 

[Rocketer]

It seems that the problem is huge comparing 8V model hasn't been out too long to recognize all of it? Most of the cars hasn't too many miles or km yet so more to come. If the vibrations coming back for me and they not gonna replace or fix it on warranty I am shure I will go to a carmagazine to reveal/expose it and lift up the problem. I am tired to fight alone against them and gonna ask backup from a carmagazine who are willing to write an article and believe me, they are.

 

[Gorillajebus]

No the problem isn't huge. The TT-RS/RS3 8P problem had bigger scale.
The RS3 8V brakes are an improvement over the ones in the 8P.
Still the brake could be better.

I talked to a german company specialised in brakes from various manufacturers.
They wrote a big article about the 8P when the brake problems were getting out of hand.
( http://www.at-rs.de/beitrag/items/die-laufrichtungsbindung-von-bremsscheiben.html for example )

The owner himself told me that there are a few reports of RS3 brake problems but by far not enough to talk about a representative mass of problems.

 

[45bvtc]

It seems that the problem is huge comparing 8V model hasn't been out too long to recognize all of it? Most of the cars hasn't too many miles or km yet so more to come. If the vibrations coming back for me and they not gonna replace or fix it on warranty I am shure I will go to a carmagazine to reveal/expose it and lift up the problem. I am tired to fight alone against them and gonna ask backup from a carmagazine who are willing to write an article and believe me, they are.

But that didn't work with the 8P RS3, Rocketer; and believe me I had a face-to-face in public on an Audi trade stand with the then MD of Audi UK: this is such a LOW VOLUME issue the buggers don't care; I mean, they sell ALL of the cars anyway irrespective of low-speed brake-squeal and/or vibration; just try ordering one tomorrow morning - Audi UK and Audi GmbH are taking the preverbal and people like you and me are saying thank you; some are even looking forward to a 'facelift' and no mention of brake problems

No, the RS3 is a GREAT motor car, enjoy it, I do; but then I drove Lotus cars for 40 plus years so came to accept the deficiancies from manufacturers 'cos the car was otherwise sooooo ****** good; know what I mean...

 

[Rocketer]

Yes 45bvtc you are probably right about that but I still believe that no brand want to have their name in the dirt and therefore they hopefully surrender and accept a deal with for instance me in this case? I have seen many request in different carmagazines here in Sweden who are willing to take a closer look into different problems car owners have. Allthough My new discs and pads are good now and hoping that they stays like that the 3 years I am having it but we shall see? The car otherwise feels like a dream in everything and the best sporty car I ever owned and for now even the brakes are ok so only the future can tell what's gonna happen and for now I only gonna have fun with it which is pretty easy !

 

[45bvtc]

Yes 45bvtc you are probably right about that but I still believe that no brand want to have their name in the dirt and therefore they hopefully surrender and accept a deal with for instance me in this case? I have seen many request in different carmagazines here in Sweden who are willing to take a closer look into different problems car owners have. Allthough My new discs and pads are good now and hoping that they stays like that the 3 years I am having it but we shall see? The car otherwise feels like a dream in everything and the best sporty car I ever owned and for now even the brakes are ok so only the future can tell what's gonna happen and for now I only gonna have fun with it which is pretty easy !

I did write to two motoring magazines here in the UK to make them aware of the ongoing issues with the RS3 to include the so called 'upgrades' rather than 'recalls' and had zero response

Plus, during my discussion with the then MD of Audi UK he, Martin Sander that is, made it abundantly clear that whatever he and/or Audi UK thought about any issue concerning an Audi product that they, Audi UK, were beholding to Audi GmbH and until Audi GmbH provided instruction they, Audi UK, were unable to respond - other than offering goodies such as 'free' service and/or 'free' Audi Silverstone Experience days, etc, to pacify customers and I have to say, that policy did work and most complainants were satisfied and either carried on or moved on...

Like I say, all Audi RS3s keep selling and I'm as enthusiastic about my car today as I was back in September 2011 when I bought it...

 

[Rocketer]

I did write to two motoring magazines here in the UK to make them aware of the ongoing issues with the RS3 to include the so called 'upgrades' rather than 'recalls' and had zero response

Plus, during my discussion with the then MD of Audi UK he, Martin Sander that is, made it abundantly clear that whatever he and/or Audi UK thought about any issue concerning an Audi product that they, Audi UK, were beholding to Audi GmbH and until Audi GmbH provided instruction they, Audi UK, were unable to respond - other than offering goodies such as 'free' service and/or 'free' Audi Silverstone Experience days, etc, to pacify customers and I have to say, that policy did work and most complainants were satisfied and either carried on or moved on...

Like I say, all Audi RS3s keep selling and I'm as enthusiastic about my car today as I was back in September 2011 when I bought it...

Ok, you have done a lot there I have to say, good work! You have the 8P? Have you origin discs and pads than and how many miles?

 

[45bvtc]

Thank you Rocketer and yes I've an 8P Audi RS3 and am VERY content with it...

Low-speed brake-squeal @ 1250-miles and self-sorted with Mintex self-adhesive anti-squeal shims

47i6 upgrade @ 4950-miles with low-speed brake-squeal again 1250-miles later and self-sorted with Brembo/Mitsubishi stainless-steel anti-squeal shims

High brake disc wear being reported by other RS3 owners so checked mine and horrified at the state I found the OEM Audi/Brembo/Pagid brake pads with some 8-brass rivets/pad starting to score my own brake discs; did some investigations and @ 7485-miles changed to EBC Redstuff brake pads and being impressed fitted Redstuff to the rear also: big difference with the Redstuff is that it restored the brake pedal travel/feel - but I'll not go into that here other than to say the 47i6 pads have cut-outs on the backplate causing excess travel

At 9700-miles I fitted MTEC rear discs with Redstuff pads

Now @ 11510-miles and still with Redstuff - though I did do some 50-miles on Yellowstuff just to evaluate - my brakes overall - discs, pads, and pedal travel - are just perfect

And I'm 4.1/2 years into a 10-year ownership and no intention of selling as nothing else rocks-my-boat like the Audi RS3 - and for me an 8V isn't worth £25k more than what I have now...

Hope this helps

PS: I'm an OAP so my RS3 doesn't get daily plus I've a TT and A2 to exercise....

 

[Rocketer]

Thank you Rocketer and yes I've an 8P Audi RS3 and am VERY content with it...

Low-speed brake-squeal @ 1250-miles and self-sorted with Mintex self-adhesive anti-squeal shims

47i6 upgrade @ 4950-miles with low-speed brake-squeal again 1250-miles later and self-sorted with Brembo/Mitsubishi stainless-steel anti-squeal shims

High brake disc wear being reported by other RS3 owners so checked mine and horrified at the state I found the OEM Audi/Brembo/Pagid brake pads with some 8-brass rivets/pad starting to score my own brake discs; did some investigations and @ 7485-miles changed to EBC Redstuff brake pads and being impressed fitted Redstuff to the rear also: big difference with the Redstuff is that it restored the brake pedal travel/feel - but I'll not go into that here other than to say the 47i6 pads have cut-outs on the backplate causing excess travel

At 9700-miles I fitted MTEC rear discs with Redstuff pads

Now @ 11510-miles and still with Redstuff - though I did do some 50-miles on Yellowstuff just to evaluate - my brakes overall - discs, pads, and pedal travel - are just perfect

And I'm 4.1/2 years into a 10-year ownership and no intention of selling as nothing else rocks-my-boat like the Audi RS3 - and for me an 8V isn't worth £25k more than what I have now...

Hope this helps

PS: I'm an OAP so my RS3 doesn't get daily plus I've a TT and A2 to exercise....

Ok, pretty much problem with quite few miles on so many years is my reaction. I drive as much in 1 year already both summer/winter and if I convert it right to km it should be 17 944 km for your driving miles, right? The idea for me is to run 3 x approx 18 000 km in 3 years so this is gonna be a real test to the hardware. Hopefully it works.

 

[45bvtc]

That is REALLY useful information thanks and good to know when I'm talking to Audi about the issue .... thanks a LOT !!!

But I read elsewhere you're still having problems and it's still the same as the 8P that some cars do have problems and others just don't; good luck with yours...

PS: bet your TT doesn't have low speed brake squeal...

 

[Snake Pliskin]

But I read elsewhere you're still having problems and it's still the same as the 8P that some cars do have problems and others just don't; good luck with yours...

PS: bet your TT doesn't have low speed brake squeal...

Yes mate - I was one of the unlucky ones with regards to brake squeal
New pads and discs fitted now though and 2 to 3 hour bedding in procedure carried out by Audi Tech.
Fingers well & truly crossed that sorts it & time will tell I guess.
TT brakes perfectly and silently you are correct - the TT has been 100% perfect (& feels it) from day 1 with exceptional build quality.