Strange quote from audi

[RS03_SEN]

Bit of boring background so bear with me...

Coolant low warning came up recently. Topped up with a bit of deionised water just to keep it right temporarily. Car was fine.
Took it to a local garage and asked them to flush the coolant and replace.
They brought car back and when I got in it, coolant low warning came up. Took it back to them and they topped it up.
Went home then on the way to work next day, coolant low warning again. Got some coolant and topped it up myself. Left the car for around half an hour or more with engine running and heaters on full. Seemed fine.

Booked car in with Audi for dsg oil change. I was going to use the garage who did the coolant but didn't trust them after the coolant problem.
I asked Audi to do the coolant for me again because I didn't trust the first garage to have do it right.

Audi contacted me today about the car. This is what they said

"Coolant Level / Anti-Freeze Strength

Carried out pressure test of cooling system as agreed with customer and found no leaks. While under pressure the level inside the expansion tank dropped to the point where the bottle was empty but when the pressure was released the coolant returned to its original level. This indicates that there is no leaks but the level is dropping due to an air lock in the system which is being compressed by the pressure tester".

They've quoted me £234 for this. Is there an actual problem that needs fixing or is an air lock just something that needs bleeding?
If it's just a coolant change, surely it's just draining the old stuff and replacing with new? Surely that's nowhere near £234 worth of work?



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[Liam Morris]

Hi mate, Is the quoted £234 to completely change the coolant again? Or just to bleed the system?

 

[Liam Morris]

And to Answer your question, Yes an Air lock just needs bleeding out of the System, This can be tricky sometimes as there's so many Pumps and Valves that need to hit certain parameters (Usually temperature) in order to operate allowing the WHOLE cooling System to circulate allowing the Air out of all parts of the system. Looking at Erwin this is a *Manual procedure* instead of a ODIS procedure on the RS3 meaning a Technician will need to be with the car safely getting it up to just slightly above normal running temperature for a short period (whole process usually 2 hours or so tops) in order to get all areas of the system circulating to work the Air out and then just topping up the level after.

Have you noticed when leaving the car after a decent drive if the Front Radiator fans have been running?
(should be slightly audible), If so this means the System is all operating OK so it should be fairly straight forwards to get the air out. As long as you've had no temperature warnings i would assume this is the case!

To sum up, Don't drive the car too hard while in this state as if the Air gets to the wrong place when you're gunning it you could get issues or in turn if some of the coolant can't circulate (due to an air lock) to be cooled by the Radiator again then the coolant runs the risk of boiling and blowing a pipe - Should be fine to drive over short-ish distances at cruising speed to get somewhere to get it sorted asap as the cooling system is oh so important!

£234 is probably a *little* steep but its Audi plus the *RS Premium* and they've probably quoted 3-4 hours labour, i would contact a Local VAG Specialist as im sure they would bleed it for less and the Audi Methods are very short winded and arn't always 100% (Their process isn't the most thorough however *normally* works.) , A *Proper technician* who knows what he's doing will do a better job!

 

[RS03_SEN]

Hi mate, Is the quoted £234 to completely change the coolant again? Or just to bleed the system?

Complete change

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[RS03_SEN]

And to Answer your question, Yes an Air lock just needs bleeding out of the System, This can be tricky sometimes as there's so many Pumps and Valves that need to hit certain parameters (Usually temperature) in order to operate allowing the WHOLE cooling System to circulate allowing the Air out of all parts of the system. Looking at Erwin this is a *Manual procedure* instead of a ODIS procedure on the RS3 meaning a Technician will need to be with the car safely getting it up to just slightly above normal running temperature for a short period (whole process usually 2 hours or so tops) in order to get all areas of the system circulating to work the Air out and then just topping up the level after.

Have you noticed when leaving the car after a decent drive if the Front Radiator fans have been running?
(should be slightly audible), If so this means the System is all operating OK so it should be fairly straight forwards to get the air out. As long as you've had no temperature warnings i would assume this is the case!

To sum up, Don't drive the car too hard while in this state as if the Air gets to the wrong place when you're gunning it you could get issues or in turn if some of the coolant can't circulate (due to an air lock) to be cooled by the Radiator again then the coolant runs the risk of boiling and blowing a pipe - Should be fine to drive over short-ish distances at cruising speed to get somewhere to get it sorted asap as the cooling system is oh so important!

£234 is probably a *little* steep but its Audi plus the *RS Premium* and they've probably quoted 3-4 hours labour, i would contact a Local VAG Specialist as im sure they would bleed it for less and the Audi Methods are very short winded and arn't always 100% (Their process isn't the most thorough however *normally* works.) , A *Proper technician* who knows what he's doing will do a better job!

Thanks for the explanation. Really appreciate it.
As long as it's right, I'm happy with the price.
At least with Audi if anything goes wrong and it's linked to that I've got some comeback.
There's only really awesome GTi that are anywhere close to me and they're a good half an hour or more away. Blackburn Audi are only 5 miles down the road.

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[8YARWY]

Official procedure is to use a vacuum filler when renewing the coolant.

Did this myself on our GTD when i changed the timing belt, it's the only sure way to drag the coolant around the system and minimise airlocks.

Works effectively though, i bought the laser vacuum filler, you connect it to a compressor and the 'Venturi' effect creates a vacuum in the system, then you fill a container with your coolant and insert the pipe from the filler and open a valve, the coolant is then drawn through the system as it replaces the vacuum, very quick to fill this way.

 

[RS03_SEN]

Official procedure is to use a vacuum filler when renewing the coolant.

Did this myself on our GTD when i changed the timing belt, it's the only sure way to drag the coolant around the system and minimise airlocks.

Works effectively though, i bought the laser vacuum filler, you connect it to a compressor and the 'Venturi' effect creates a vacuum in the system, then you fill a container with your coolant and insert the pipe from the filler and open a valve, the coolant is then drawn through the system as it replaces the vacuum, very quick to fill this way.

Sounds like a useful tool!
So they're not just pouring coolant in, leaving the car running for half an hour then charging me £230 for the pleasure?

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[8YARWY]

Sounds like a useful tool!
So they're not just pouring coolant in, leaving the car running for half an hour then charging me £230 for the pleasure?

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Here’s the official procedure.

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[Liam Morris]

£234 for a complete change Is reasonable, tho a specialist may shave a little of that - for the difference and the sake of Audi paperwork and Audi warranty on that work I'd let them do it.

For Context , brief picture of our VAS 6096 from work in its Box with all the kit and How it connects to the Header tank.

 

[RS03_SEN]

£234 for a complete change Is reasonable, tho a specialist may shave a little of that - for the difference and the sake of Audi paperwork and Audi warranty on that work I'd let them do it.

For Context , brief picture of our VAS 6096 from work in its Box with all the kit and How it connects to the Header tank.

You work on cars for a living?
I didn't realise it was as labour intense as it was. £120 labour they charged. I thought £234 for filling the tank and running the engine was steep but after reading this I'm happy enough.

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[Liam Morris]

Yes, i work at An Audi approved insurance repairer And have my final Assessment following my VWG / Audi training in a few weeks at Volkswagens national learning Center in Milton Keynes. It really does help on the money side of Maintenance when you have Access to the Audi / VW Tooling and ODIS Every day at work!

And yeah £120 Labour is fair enough, You need up to roughly 8 Litres of Concentrate G13 Coolant which is roughly £15 per 1.5 Litres from what i remember so £234 is actually very reasonable to be honest compared to what Audi charge for some things!

 

[Liam Morris]

You work on cars for a living?
I didn't realise it was as labour intense as it was. £120 labour they charged. I thought £234 for filling the tank and running the engine was steep but after reading this I'm happy enough.

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And yes, it can be quite a labour intensive task however the Vacuum fill kit makes it easier but it's not full proof, an Experienced tech will normally give it a longer bleed just to make absolutely sure compared to a new tech or one that just follows methods but doesnt necessarily understand how the system works - and with it being the cooling system taking an extra hour is definitely better then rushing it and cooking the Block!

 

[Liam Morris]

Also on the subject if you ever need Audi methods for something or a technical query feel free to message me and I'll see if I can help at all!

 

[RS03_SEN]

Also on the subject if you ever need Audi methods for something or a technical query feel free to message me and I'll see if I can help at all!

Thanks a lot mate. Really appreciate that.

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[DW81]

Yes, i work at An Audi approved insurance repairer And have my final Assessment following my VWG / Audi training in a few weeks at Volkswagens national learning Center in Milton Keynes. It really does help on the money side of Maintenance when you have Access to the Audi / VW Tooling and ODIS Every day at work!

And yeah £120 Labour is fair enough, You need up to roughly 8 Litres of Concentrate G13 Coolant which is roughly £15 per 1.5 Litres from what i remember so £234 is actually very reasonable to be honest compared to what Audi charge for some things!

I take it you are an apprentice, good luck mate in your final exam.
Seems like you are already switched on in the car repair industry fella

 

[Liam Morris]

I take it you are an apprentice, good luck mate in your final exam.
Seems like you are already switched on in the car repair industry fella

Cheers mate, Ex apprentice (qualified 2018) but as it's not An Audi owned shop, just a partnered shop we only got Industry standard Qualifications.
Got chosen as the single person to do the VW Audi Specific stuff out of my whole department (10 People) due to as they say "Attention to detail and love of the Brand as well as being decent with computers".

I must be doing something right as even The trainers At VW were surprised they didnt send a more experienced tech then a 22 year old but were then shocked with the understanding I had of VW / Audi cars for my amount of experience.

Hopefully following the Assessment I'll be a VWG Qualified MET (Mechanical Electrical Trim) technician on top of current qualifications and with more courses I'll get to the top of the game in the VW Audi area of it all! Will be handy being able to do the work myself when the Insurance companies stop asking for an Arm and a Leg for an RS!

 

[DW81]

Cheers mate, Ex apprentice (qualified 2018) but as it's not An Audi owned shop, just a partnered shop we only got Industry standard Qualifications.
Got chosen as the single person to do the VW Audi Specific stuff out of my whole department (10 People) due to as they say "Attention to detail and love of the Brand as well as being decent with computers".

I must be doing something right as even The trainers At VW were surprised they didnt send a more experienced tech then a 22 year old but were then shocked with the understanding I had of VW / Audi cars for my amount of experience.

Hopefully following the Assessment I'll be a VWG Qualified MET (Mechanical Electrical Trim) technician on top of current qualifications and with more courses I'll get to the top of the game in the VW Audi area of it all! Will be handy being able to do the work myself when the Insurance companies stop asking for an Arm and a Leg for an RS!

Nice one Liam, if your company is footing the bill get on as many courses as possible mate.

 

[wuta3]

Thanks for the explanation. Really appreciate it.
As long as it's right, I'm happy with the price.
At least with Audi if anything goes wrong and it's linked to that I've got some comeback.
There's only really awesome GTi that are anywhere close to me and they're a good half an hour or more away. Blackburn Audi are only 5 miles down the road.

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If you're near Awesome, give VAG Technik a go ... those guys are great.

 

[8YARWY]

If you're near Awesome, give VAG Technik a go ... those guys are great.

+1 for Vag Technik.

Very good independent.


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