The argument for or against the B7 OE Airbox and filter.

[Charlie Farley]

Having read again a few articles recently on the subject matter of the B7 OE airbox and whether there is any real gain in replacing it with a more open cone or induction style assembly when used in the 2.0tfsi configuration.

The last time this conversation cropped up there was a mixed bag of replies with a pretty even split on which was better, I'm still in the leave it in camp with maybe a more free-flowing filter panel.
The recent thread here: https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/does-anyone-know-the-previous-ow-ers-of-this-dtm.430315/

has to a degree clarified what many of us have maintained, it's not that important on the scale of things
If an in-house pro custom build BUL engine currently running approx 440 bhp with a stock airbox fitted works, well that just highlights how well the OE box works, i expect there is a more performance orientated panel filter fitted, but even so.

Any thoughts chaps.

 

[quattrogone]

I think a lot of it comes down to what flicks your switch or sometimes people get sucked into ticking boxes when it comes down to mod's.
I've done it in the past but it was at the same time as going straight to stage one all in one go on a new mk1 TT so I wouldn't have been able to tell if it did help or not. Before I did that on the TT I did drill some holes in the base of the standard box with a core drill if nothing else it sounded better.

 

[mikep99]

I know after reading about tests on RS4s with stock Vs cold air intakes, there was no difference at all.
If anything, the aftermarket stuff that got rid of the standard box ran with higher temps..

Mike

 

[Inertiauk]

I will tell you what filter is in there when I pick it up next week

 

[Charlie Farley]

It won't be empty, maybe K&N or pipercross panel filter.

 

[Charlie Farley]

When i had my old bus remapped going with a cone made no difference so refitted the OE box.
I suppose there is a always a case for personal preference though, as we always say.

 

[Fully]

My own experience, I think the performance panels are just as good, but cones etc are just more looks and noise.

 

[Charlie Farley]

And then the heat soak effect to factor in , the OE air box does offer a good level of heat protection on the scale of things but a cone or similar so close to the turbo and cat will be a factor at higher ambient air temps and when stationary.
What your gaining in one hand will be negative on the other.
All down to what your looking to gain and expectations really

 

[mikep99]

I've also read that oiled filters can damage the MAF. Reverted back to stock after trying a K&N for a short while, just in case....

 

[Rob Avant]

I’ve gone from stock to K&N panel filter to the ECS CAI.
The best value for money is just changing to a good panel filter in the stock box.
The ECS hasn’t given any extra performance or if it has its so small I couldn’t tell. The child in me likes the noise it makes and it looks nice, nothing more.

Recently fitted a Ramair panel filter in the GTI, about £25. The engine does seem to breath better now. Good little upgrade for a small outlay.

 

[Gazwould]

Simply not worth it as they let through a ton of dirt and it's not hard to see why .

Why miss out on all that filtration ?

 

[Inertiauk]

Simply not worth it as they let through a ton of dirt and it's not hard to see why .

View attachment 246927

View attachment 246928


Why miss out on all that filtration ?

View attachment 246929View attachment 246930

Because lots and lots of boost needs to suck more air. The tint amount of dust that may occasionally get in gets burnt anyway.

I used to run big mushroom filters on scoobys you could practically see through. It never hurt them.

 

[Inertiauk]

Simply not worth it as they let through a ton of dirt and it's not hard to see why .

View attachment 246927

View attachment 246928


Why miss out on all that filtration ?

View attachment 246929View attachment 246930

I’ve gone from stock to K&N panel filter to the ECS CAI.
The best value for money is just changing to a good panel filter in the stock box.
The ECS hasn’t given any extra performance or if it has its so small I couldn’t tell. The child in me likes the noise it makes and it looks nice, nothing more.

Recently fitted a Ramair panel filter in the GTI, about £25. The engine does seem to breath better now. Good little upgrade for a small outlay.

I have live IAT on my FIS. I will put one on as a test at some point to compare, but I suspect the lovely noises pay the price by feeding in less dense air so less boost.

 

[Ricky Burrows]

When i was setting my old b7 up for stage 2+ with the option to go straight to ko4 with no extra hardware i rang rtech and asked there advice on if i should sink £3-400 on an ecs tuning induction kit or if its a waste of money there words were i NEED the induction kit, obviously its up for debate but i was simply getting advice from some of the best in the country to tune that platform and went ahead with the ecs kit and had 0 complaints and ran great in 35 degrees weather, also the noise is great, i think its one of them where you need all the hardware rather than just bolting on a £40 filter to a stock car and expecting miracles, me personally though i just don't see the stock set up being as effective as a proper induction kit like the ecs especially when you start talking about turning the boost up or adding a bigger turbo.

 

[Charlie Farley]

When i was setting my old b7 up for stage 2+ with the option to go straight to ko4 with no extra hardware i rang rtech and asked there advice on if i should sink £3-400 on an ecs tuning induction kit or if its a waste of money there words were i NEED the induction kit, obviously its up for debate but i was simply getting advice from some of the best in the country to tune that platform and went ahead with the ecs kit and had 0 complaints and ran great in 35 degrees weather, also the noise is great, i think its one of them where you need all the hardware rather than just bolting on a £40 filter to a stock car and expecting miracles, me personally though i just don't see the stock set up being as effective as a proper induction kit like the ecs especially when you start talking about turning the boost up or adding a bigger turbo.

I can see the logic in what they are saying Ricky but it still doesn't really equate to that much improvement over the standard B7 airbox unit whether it's got a high flow panel filter or similar.
It's a fact that more air being drawn in is best for increased power etc , but, the fact that @Inertiauk tuned DTM is running approx 430+ bhp with the OE airbox fitted and with a panel filter of some description, does go a long way to prove that the OE airbox on the B7 does work very well, it is a fact that can't be argued with as it is has been dyno tested.
just my input from the logical side of things.
Like they say, if it looks like a duck , quacks like a duck, then it has to be a duck.

 

[Inertiauk]

I can see the logic in what they are saying Ricky but it still doesn't really equate to that much improvement over the standard B7 airbox unit whether it's got a high flow panel filter or similar.
It's a fact that more air being drawn in is best for increased power etc , but, the fact that @Inertiauk tuned DTM is running approx 430+ bhp with the OE airbox fitted and with a panel filter of some description, does go a long way to prove that the OE airbox on the B7 does work very well, it is a fact that can't be argued with as it is has been dyno tested.
just my input from the logical side of things.
Like they say, if it looks like a duck , quacks like a duck, then it has to be a duck.

I will get round to pulling the box open to check the filter when I get it back.

Just to say.. the 430+ figure is from logging the airflow through the MAF, it's booked to be put on the rollers Saturday for comparison. However that looks like it could be delayed another week now.

However as it's flowing that much air, your point still stands regardless of the results on the rollers, any lower result that they may read isn't due to air flow restrictions.

 

[Inertiauk]

When i was setting my old b7 up for stage 2+ with the option to go straight to ko4 with no extra hardware i rang rtech and asked there advice on if i should sink £3-400 on an ecs tuning induction kit or if its a waste of money there words were i NEED the induction kit, obviously its up for debate but i was simply getting advice from some of the best in the country to tune that platform and went ahead with the ecs kit and had 0 complaints and ran great in 35 degrees weather, also the noise is great, i think its one of them where you need all the hardware rather than just bolting on a £40 filter to a stock car and expecting miracles, me personally though i just don't see the stock set up being as effective as a proper induction kit like the ecs especially when you start talking about turning the boost up or adding a bigger turbo.

Rtech tuned a lot more of these engines in A/S3 or mk5 golf platforms.
They specialised in those platforms (they are moving to mbq now i belive), I'm sure they will have done some B7's but I'm yet to know of one. Do you know any?

They are very experienced and and knowledgable tuners, but the platforms they do the most have better positioning for a cone filter which won't raise AIT the same as it would in a B7.

I hate to contradict them, as I've got a lot of respect, but I think they are wrong on this one.... and I'm pretty sure that unless it's boxed off fully with an extra cold air feed from the fog light area, it is the worst option for us.

Storm Developments tell me it can easily flow much more if needed. Its nowhere near a bottleneck yet.

So far the proof is in the pudding, it's flowing exactly as it should for the turbo on it and the boost its running. AIT temps are really good.

 

[Ricky Burrows]

Rtech tuned a lot more of these engines in A/S3 or mk5 golf platforms.
They specialised in those platforms (they are moving to mbq now i belive), I'm sure they will have done some B7's but I'm yet to know of one. Do you know any?

They are very experienced and and knowledgable tuners, but the platforms they do the most have better positioning for a cone filter which won't raise AIT the same as it would in a B7.

I hate to contradict them, as I've got a lot of respect, but I think they are wrong on this one.... and I'm pretty sure that unless it's boxed off fully with an extra cold air feed from the fog light area, it is the worst option for us.

Storm Developments tell me it can easily flow much more if needed. Its nowhere near a bottleneck yet.

So far the proof is in the pudding, it's flowing exactly as it should for the turbo on it and the boost its running. AIT temps are really good.

That was the thing on my mind when rtech said i "need" the induction kit on all there golfs and s3's they always replace them but i did wonder after if they just assumed the b7 unit shared the same airbox as the engines are all similar? I haven't read any of the replies on here but if your cars running big power with the stock airbox then that pretty much closes the debate on induction kits in these cars and something i wish i new before buying mine lol.

Possibly make this thread a sticky Rob it might save some people a few hundred quid.

 

[Charlie Farley]

what many don't realise is that the OE airbox has two air intakes.
The top front grille is the main but also from inside the front offside wheel arch.
What could be done is this.

cut out the remaining blue sections to leave a single large opening and re-enforce the white area from the underside to retain some rigidity.
That would increase the available air intake area by 50% easy.

 

[Ricky Burrows]

what many don't realise is that the OE airbox has two air intakes.
The top front grille is the main but also from inside the front offside wheel arch.
What could be done is this.

View attachment 247139
cut out the remaining blue sections to leave a single large opening and re-enforce the white area from the underside to retain some rigidity.
That would increase the available air intake area by 50% easy.

I did that with mine after fitting the ecs i never seen the benefit of it so out came the power tools.

 

[Inertiauk]

I had a little peep tonight.. Not certain of the brand but its an uprated panel filter.
It looks like one of these to me ...

Green Filters Performance Replacement Element

Green Filters Performance Replacement Elements simply drop into the original airbox, replacing the original restrictive paper air filter with a performance, high flow element. No other modifications, parts or accessories are required.The pleated green cotton and mesh gauze filters have been...

www.demon-tweeks.com

Its filthy under the bonnet including the intake part, that's a job for another day with better weather.
however I noticed the airbox on the other side of the filter was very clean, so its doing its job.

 

[Gazwould]

No so called performance filter can match the filtration of oe .

Simply the best....

 

[Inertiauk]

No so called performance filter can match the filtration of oe .


View attachment 247196

View attachment 247198



Simply the best....


View attachment 247199

Sure, but does it really matter that much ? Clearly not, end of the day the microscopic particles that may get sucked in will just be burnt, no harm.

Maybe my MAF will die quicker. But when I go syvecs I can run mafless anyway.

I plan to be pushing 550-600bhp in summer. I very much doubt OEM could flow that. Would be surprised if it could flow the 330-340 G/s of air that's going through it now.

If you want power you have to compromise.