Time for a build thread....big turbo

[turbonutz]

Yes I am but im not advertissing or trying to poach! Just letting people know that Revo is not just the only tuning compony out there! I

i never meant revo the only one but they got the choke hold id say.

theres a couple fife/edinburgh way. just not as many options as england has?

 

[S3Alex]

i never meant revo the only one but they got the choke hold id say.

theres a couple fife/edinburgh way. just not as many options as england has?

I think it's probably down to Revo having been one of the first,and having a large dealer network,whereas the others need to build it up over time.

Having said that,Revo's software is running on mine,and seems to be doing the job.

 

[sliced]

Bit off topic but by any chance have you been following jonny cockers TTRS build thread?

Can't believe the amount of power you can get out of these TFSI engines!

 

[S3Alex]

Bit off topic but by any chance have you been following jonny cockers TTRS build thread?

Can't believe the amount of power you can get out of these TFSI engines!

I have,but it's all gone a bit quiet right now.

These engines are strong,and well designed,but difficult to get huge amounts of power from without a lot of development.

The 2.0TFSi is ahead in that respect,in that it's had more development time,but getting the 2.5L to deliver has been pretty hard by all accounts,and some people are still having issues with misfires and limp modes.

Back to the 2.0,I think we've reached a point where things are getting into that area of development.

 

[turbonutz]

Mitsubishi and suberu have been doing magic for years with 2.0 engines ha

 

[S3Alex]

Mitsubishi and suberu have been doing magic for years with 2.0 engines ha

True,and Cosworth as well.

A lot of those old rallycross Cosworth engines were putting out around 650bhp on the electronics we had back then.

The problem isn't so much the power,which can be done if you have have the cash(after all,Honda,BMW and Renault were getting 1200bhp from a 1.5L F1 engine),but how long you can use it for.

To think that you can now get a reliable 500bhp or 250bhp/L from one of these engines,without the costs and worries we used to have,is quite something.
My old Sierra would turn a reliable 440bhp,but getting 500bhp+ was seriously costly.

 

[turbonutz]

yeh i suppose, the wonders of modern engineering, every little thing all adds up. like constructing alloys from the particles outwards for reliability and manipulate so things do and dont expand to how they need, every little grove and radius tweeked by the tenth of a mil thats why theres millions going into these engines in motor sports lol, and some of these things get cheaper and filter down into our hands (still a fortune tho ha) or atleast ur hands ha

 

[S3Alex]

yeh i suppose, the wonders of modern engineering, every little thing all adds up. like constructing alloys from the particles outwards for reliability and manipulate so things do and dont expand to how they need, every little grove and radius tweeked by the tenth of a mil thats why theres millions going into these engines in motor sports lol, and some of these things get cheaper and filter down into our hands (still a fortune tho ha) or atleast ur hands ha

True.

I used to think the Cosworth 2L was the pinnacle of road engineering until I saw a proper hillclimb RS200.....800bhp,adjustable torque split,2 stage ALS etc etc,and I just wished I had unlimited funds!

I was lucky with the S3 as a few people had already been down at least some of this route,or further,using similar or in some cases very different solutions,and sharing ideas with those guys helped me,and I hope them also in some ways.

If I was starting again now,I'd probably use a few different parts,like the RS3 in-tank pump,and Loba HPFP,and if I hadn't wanted the power I can get to now,I'd have had the APR GTX2867 kit,as it's a LOT easier to fit than mine.

But......once the wastegate is sorted,it's back to business.

 

[turbonutz]

wish i had money, know how and time to have a project car but none of which i can spare haha(yet anyway only 25 so maybe in future ha)

well coulda woulda shoulda, hindsight a wonderful thing but am sure you wont stop on this build untill you move onto ur next car ha
still a machine that ad live to see on a track so a standard one just for a laugh (even a 2+ for that matter infact ha)

 

[S3Alex]

wish i had money, know how and time to have a project car but none of which i can spare haha(yet anyway only 25 so maybe in future ha)

well coulda woulda shoulda, hindsight a wonderful thing but am sure you wont stop on this build untill you move onto ur next car ha
still a machine that ad live to see on a track so a standard one just for a laugh (even a 2+ for that matter infact ha)

Mine's an everday drive,and has to be reliable for my job,but it's nice to have something I can actually enjoy driving,even if it's at 30mph some of the way.

That's what I've enjoyed most to be honest......taking a car I liked,and making it more enjoyable.

 

[Gops]

Nice thread Alex! Some lovely work here! Hope to have a build on mine (similar to prawns tfsi turbo conversion) but as a hybrid on the 1.8t! Us boys on the 8L are trying to keep up haha!

 

[S3Alex]

Nice thread Alex! Some lovely work here! Hope to have a build on mine (similar to prawns tfsi turbo conversion) but as a hybrid on the 1.8t! Us boys on the 8L are trying to keep up haha!

Many thanks,

You guys over there have some amazing things going on.

It's more like us trying to keep up with what you're squeezing out of the 8L.....keep it up!

 

[Sevv]

Many thanks,

You guys over there have some amazing things going on.

It's more like us trying to keep up with what you're squeezing out of the 8L.....keep it up!

so true the technical knowledge of the 8L side (comming from an 8L s3 myself is far more astounding then the 8P)

for the 8P its more about beautifying them 2.0tfsi lumps

 

[S3Alex]

so true the technical knowledge of the 8L side (comming from an 8L s3 myself is far more astounding then the 8P)

for the 8P its more about beautifying them 2.0tfsi lumps

The 2.0 definitely needs some beauty treatment.

 

[KentKid]

Lol, looking at that dyno graph all I could think of was S-U-R-G-E!!!!!

 

[S3Alex]

Lol, looking at that dyno graph all I could think of was S-U-R-G-E!!!!!

No surge.
Last turbo suffered from that but not this one!

 

[MartayMcFly]

This whole thread makes me want my S3 back. If only it sounded as good as the RS's V8 a 500bhp/600Nm hatch would be amazing!

 

[S3Alex]

This whole thread makes me want my S3 back. If only it sounded as good as the RS's V8 a 500bhp/600Nm hatch would be amazing!

I'm not sure it sounds as good as the V8 or V10,but it certainly does sound angry compared to before.

Changing the turbo has altered the sound quite a lot.....way more than I would have expected.

 

[S3_Mat]

Also has the novelty factor of being double the power of a standard S3 which im sure is great at suprising people!

 

[S3Alex]

Also has the novelty factor of being double the power of a standard S3 which im sure is great at suprising people!

Surprises a lot of things....

AMG 63,M5 V10,various Porkers,and so on.

Surprises me at times too.

 

[Unitronic]

i never meant revo the only one but they got the choke hold id say.

theres a couple fife/edinburgh way. just not as many options as england has?

That's very true! Revo has been the dominant software for sometime & most folk probably have tried them by now & to be fair Scotland has problems with choice. I think we need alot more options up this way but not many small componies are given the chance relly....

I like to be differet so, been there, done that, & now its time to move on to other competitors for me! Do you go & play at Crail by any chance?

 

[S3Alex]

That's very true! Revo has been the dominant software for sometime & most folk probably have tried them by now & to be fair Scotland has problems with choice. I think we need alot more options up this way but not many small componies are given the chance relly....

I like to be differet so, been there, done that, & now its time to move on to other competitors for me! Do you go & play at Crail by any chance?

More options are good for everyone I think.

It gives us consumers plenty of choice,and competition keeps the tuning software companies sharp and responsive as well.

Stops everything getting into a rut.

 

[S3Alex]

Another vote of thanks to Scott Hawkins at Owen Developments.

A few emails,and I know what wastegate springs we need.

That's service!

 

[superkarl]

how we doing alex?
put the stiffer springs in yet?

 

[S3Alex]

how we doing alex?
put the stiffer springs in yet?

Hi there.

Funny you should say that....I'm about to order them,and then find some date I can get them fitted.

AMD have probably seen enough of me and my car right now!

 

[S3Alex]

Springs ordered.

I should have the green,blue and black springs in the wastegate already,and now just need the red,white,yellow and plain to complete the set.



So now I can have any wastegate pressure setting I want......

 

[S3Alex]

And to crack the spring colour code....




The net is a wonderful place......I spent a good few minutes with my limited maths skills working that out on a piece of paper.

One minute on the net......and one picture tells it all.

 

[15Degrees]

Is a wastegate the same as a dump valve?

 

[S3Alex]

Is a wastegate the same as a dump valve?

No.

The dump valve,or diverter valve,in VAG cars,sits at the throttle body,and either diverts or dumps excess air when the throttle is closed,and the turbo is still spinning.

The wastegate is at the turbo end of the system,and effectively bypasses some of the exhaust gases from entering the turbo,when maximum boost pressure is reached,preventing overboosting.

An external wastegate is easier to control,and generally accepted as being more reliable,but not as easy to fit as an internal wastegate which is integrated into the turbine exit.

 

[15Degrees]

I have a nice turbo technics wastegate on the downpipe, do i need a dump valve then inlet side?

 

[S3Alex]

I have a nice turbo technics wastegate on the downpipe, do i need a dump valve then inlet side?

Remind me of the turbo you're using?

Is it a Tial wastegate supplied by TurboTechnics also?

As to dump valves,what you have currently is a diverter valve,that diverts air that's already been past the MAF,back into the turbo inlet,after the MAF,when the throttle is closed.


Both Forge,and GFB make uprated diverter valves,and even the currrent OEM valve is pretty good.

 

[15Degrees]

Not sure I have any of those things chap. Mk2 golf head remember

 

[S3Alex]

Not sure I have any of those things chap. Mk2 golf head remember

Ahhhhh!

Short term memory loss.

In which case I guess you may find yourself needing a Forge dump valve.

 

[15Degrees]

Been told to fit one by Richard at Tracktive. He is going to order me a nice blue one to fit before the throttle body I am also working on a slash cut side exit exhaust system

 

[S3Alex]

Been told to fit one by Richard at Tracktive. He is going to order me a nice blue one to fit before the throttle body I am also working on a slash cut side exit exhaust system

That should do the trick nicely.

That exhaust should be pretty loud I'd have thought!....one on my neighbours complained about the backbox delete I tried on mine!

 

[S3Alex]

Springs have arrived.

Time to arrange another(short) trip to my car's favourite place,and get these fitted before winter sets in.

A proper 2.2bar should be fun,and then maybe time to get on with the splitter and other bits.

 

[15Degrees]

Nah he will make it to 98db so im track legal at all the circuits. What do the wastegate and dump valve do again exactly?

 

[S3Alex]

Nah he will make it to 98db so im track legal at all the circuits. What do the wastegate and dump valve do again exactly?

This probably explains it better than I ever could!

Wastegate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Basically,it's the means by which boost is regulated,and by diverting a portion of the exhaust gases away from the turbo when a preset level is reached,it is prevented from developing further boost.

It can be operated pneumatically,and under electronic control,for further adjustment(as on mine,which can be set for 0.5bar,1bar,1.5bar,2bar,and 2.2bar).

The purpose of a dump valve or diverter is to limit the pressure build up which would occur when the throttle is closed,and the turbo is still spinning.
When that occurs,a lot of stress is placed on the turbine bearings,and whilst this sort of arrangement was acceptable in rallying a while back,where the turbo was basically scrap at the end of each stage,it won't do a road going turbo much good at all,hence the valve.

 

[Scoobaru]

A few more words on this little beauty....




Not a cheap addition to the car,but by comparison with something like say the Haldex controller,which costs about the same sort of money,the value in terms of grip and handling is way better.

Yes,the 2 compliment each other,and I suppose ideally you'd have both(I already had the controller and waited until Quaife produced a diff for the 4WD gearbox),but this thing really does do the job.

On a wet road,like today,traction is better,and more secure under acceleration,and the car doesn't feel like it's fighting you every inch of the way.
It's therefore smoother and easier to drive,less of a handful,and more predictable,but as I said earlier,it doesn't seem as snappy as previous Quaife ATB diffs I've used a while ago.

It does show up how bad a decision it was for Audi to stick a simple open diff in the car.

I might be a bit thick here but I assume that is the rear diff not the front ? Would it be worth buying without the haldex upgrade on stage 2+ 360bhp power ?

 

[S3Alex]

I might be a bit thick here but I assume that is the rear diff not the front ? Would it be worth buying without the haldex upgrade on stage 2+ 360bhp power ?

Front diff.

The S3 behaves mostly like a FWD with part time drive to the rear wheels and anything that improves front traction is a big gain.

I would do everything such as suspension and ARBs first and then the diff and last of all the Haldex controller.

I do think it would be worthwhile on a Stg2+ car but it's not cheap.