Took my 18" alloys off, put 17" ones back on - Is this heresy?!

[jdp1962]

My A4 is an SE, so it came out of the factory on 17 inch rims. About three years ago, I fitted 18 inch RS4 replicas, and had it lowered 30mm. That's how it has been ever since.

At the weekend, mainly out of curiosity but partly so that I could give them a damned good clean, I took the RS4 reps off, and put the factory alloys back on, intending to swap them back next weekend. The thing is, yes they're a bit small and pinched in, but I've always liked the style of the OEM 17inch jobbies. Here's the other thing though; the car is so much nicer to drive right now, on the 17s. The steering is lighter, it tracks better, the ride is smoother and more cushioned, and it's quieter.

Part of that may be down to the tyres - Falken ZE912s all round - which, by some strange quirk that I can no longer remember the reason for, are 225/45x17, and not 235/45x17 as they should be. This means the gearing is about 1.5% lower, and I swear the car is picking up more quickly.

So I'm seriously beginning to consider whether I should leave the OEM wheels on. My heart says not, but my head says yes. Here they are for comparison purposes.

On the 18inch RS4s:

On the 17inch OEMs:

 

[novril]

The reps are meant to be a lot heavier than oem, which would explain a some of the better driving characteristics that have appeared. My ride got a bit worse on 19's. If I hadn't sunk so much money into those I'd probably swap for some 18's again!

 

[SDHA4SLine]

Well hands down the 18's win for looks. However can you see them when you're driving the car? and do you really care what others may think? You should stick with whatever gives you the best driving pleasure, it's a case of looks or drivability. I know I would rather not sacrifice drive pleasure for looks that's for sure.

 

[Jimmy TDI]

Personally I don't like your 18's, I think they're too overdone, but that's just my personal taste.

If you can get past the fact that they're only 17's then keep them as I think they suite the car better. If they also give you a better drive as well as pleasing you visually it's a win win.

 

[Joe_Murphy21187]

I actually prefer the 17's on your car Jeff. The combo if the light grey/gold and those particular alloys, twinned with the slightly lowered ride & front splitter looks subtle but smart.

The 17's you have aren't as common as some other styles, both 18 and 17, so it doesn't look so run-of-the-mill with them on.

At the end of the day it's your choice (obviously), but for an improved ride, improved performance, reduced cost (and at least in my eyes a moot point on the styling front) I'd say it's a no-brainer...

 

[Charlie Farley]

sometimes it just pays to go with the original fitting, as allready mentioned the 17's are nice and are not the run of the mill alloys, stick with em sir, and sell those common rs4 reps.
I have been so tempted to put something else on mine even a 19' but have resisited the temptation and i am glad i have as i love the DTM alloys on my avant, they just just right and dont upset the ride quality.

 

[jdp1962]

Great feedback everyone, thanks.

 

[Pedrödelabongo]

Have to say that I think the 17" wheels look much better.
I'd fit them over the 18" S-Line 5 spokes on mine in a heartbeat.

 

[jdp1962]

If I remember correctly, my factory 17" were the style used on SE models during the final year or so of B7 production. I saw one the other day, totally standard, and it reminded me how nice they are. That's partly what prompted me to dig 'em out of the shed.

One of the things I love about this forum is that you're always taken by surprise by the range and quality of the replies you get on threads. I was half expecting just to get a clarion call from everyone to put the 18" back on (or maybe buy a set of 19"). hence the reference to heresy in the title. What you guys gave me was a range of thoughful considered responses, for which I'm grateful.

I love a good look as much as the next guy, but I've always tried to stick to a philosophy that it has to work right first, and look right second. But it looks like I made a wrong call without being aware of it (or I conned myself into not noticing) when I put the 18" wheels on.

 

[Charlie Farley]

I find that sometimes with car styling etc it can be very easy to get swept along with the whole " whats in style" tide , everyone then changes bits and pieces all over the car and very quickly the cars true styling and identity are lost, thats not allways a bad thing but normally one buys a car for sevaral reasons and its styling and looks normal make up a big part of the buying descision.
I love to enhance my cars looks etc but dont really want to go overkill and loose the looks etc which is why i purchased it, small and sutle mods are the best way, i was going to do a fair few on mine and then just looked at it one day and thought , hell no, its look great as it is , why change it all, wheels are the same for me.
anyway good on you jdp for going back to the originals.

 

[jdp1962]

I've noticed I'm missing a hexagonal wheel nut cover. I might enquire if Bexley Audi service bay have a spare they can let me have.

 

[desertstorm]

Just out of interest put one of the 18's on the bathroom scales and weigh it and then try one of the 17's.
I run 17's on my car, it originally came with 18 inch S line 5 spokes that weigh nearly 25Kg a piece with 245 / 40 /18 tyres on. With the team dynamics 17 inch wheels on 235 / 45 /17 tyres they weigh around 18.5Kg each.
Thats 6.5Kg per wheel so 26Kg static weight. The big difference with wheels though is they rotate so act as a flywheel, the larger the wheel the more weight is concentrated at the outside of the wheel.
Which is why Audi usually put smaller wheels on the car as standard. You have better performance and fuel economy. You can bet that when they perform the fuel economy tests on a car they fit them with the smallest . lightest wheels they can.
And on wheels like the 19 inch blades they have hollow spokes to try and mitigate some of these issues. This makes the wheels expensive and a blade rep won't have hollow spokes so will be a lot heavier.
I think the 17's look fine.
Karl.

 

[jdp1962]

Just out of interest put one of the 18's on the bathroom scales and weigh it and then try one of the 17's.
I run 17's on my car, it originally came with 18 inch S line 5 spokes that weigh nearly 25Kg a piece with 245 / 40 /18 tyres on. With the team dynamics 17 inch wheels on 235 / 45 /17 tyres they weigh around 18.5Kg each.
Thats 6.5Kg per wheel so 26Kg static weight. The big difference with wheels though is they rotate so act as a flywheel, the larger the wheel the more weight is concentrated at the outside of the wheel.
Which is why Audi usually put smaller wheels on the car as standard. You have better performance and fuel economy. You can bet that when they perform the fuel economy tests on a car they fit them with the smallest . lightest wheels they can.
And on wheels like the 19 inch blades they have hollow spokes to try and mitigate some of these issues. This makes the wheels expensive and a blade rep won't have hollow spokes so will be a lot heavier.
I think the 17's look fine.
Karl.

I've never weighed them, but just by picking them up, I can tell the 18" are a lot heavier.

 

[Jimmy TDI]

Looking back at the pictures it's hard to even tell that there is a difference in size to be honest.

 

[s3_trev]

I think those particular 17's actually look better on your car than those particular 18's. Those style of 18's have also been done to death as someone else has said.
Personally I hate reps. They are too heavy and just awful. And that opinion comes from years of having them on different cars, and always feeling the OEM ones felt much better, just like yourself here.
Nowadays I dont even like the idea of changing the wheel size from what came out of the factory, as this effects your speedo and whatnot.

 

[Joe_Murphy21187]

Reps serve a purpose, they give you the styling of a brand 3 times the price. Agreed they aren't as lightweight, but 26Kg on a car that weighs 1500Kg-1800Kg, that's about 1.5%. As with all aspects of modifying a car, it depends what your preference is.

I've got 19" reps and love the look. I put up with the slightly less comfortable ride and ever so slightly diminished performance because I think 18's (on my car) just don't look big enough in the arches...

Each to their own, I just wanted to stand up for replica alloys... they don't deserve such a bad rep

 

[jdp1962]

Reps serve a purpose, they give you the styling of a brand 3 times the price. Agreed they aren't as lightweight, but 26Kg on a car that weighs 1500Kg-1800Kg, that's about 1.5%. As with all aspects of modifying a car, it depends what your preference is.

I've got 19" reps and love the look. I put up with the slightly less comfortable ride and ever so slightly diminished performance because I think 18's (on my car) just don't look big enough in the arches...

Each to their own, I just wanted to stand up for replica alloys... they don't deserve such a bad rep

Very eloquently said, JJ, I'm not saying the reps are off for good. The car doesn't drive badly on them, it just drives better on the OEMs.

 

[Molnboman]

Those oem 17's are such a headf@ck to keep clean! hahaha Must say, can't wait for the spring till I get my RS4 OEM 19's back on the bus...My old thing really handles well with them on....much better than the 17's.

As for OEM v REP.....you get what you pay for with alloys imho. Noubt wrong with good quality rep wheels.

Cheers
A

 

[Weverall]

I like the OEM ones, even if they are 17's?

Car looks a lot smarterand almost a bit more refined? haha

 

[desertstorm]

Effect of fitting different size wheels on the same car.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/effects-of-upsized-wheels-and-tires-tested

The difference in weight with a wheel is exaggerated because a wheel acts as flywheel.Most people know that lightening a flywheel on an engine will make the engine rev quicker and easier.
With wheels and tyres imagine them as 4 flywheels. Bigger wheels with wider tyres have more weight concentrated at the periphery meaning they have a greater effect when you come to accelerate or brake them.
The increased weight also makes it harder for the suspension to control the wheel.

Karl.

 

[gary_a4_quattro]

As Karl concisely mentions above, wheel and associated unsprung weight has a surprisingly detrimental effect on suspension performance and impacts on rotational acceleration and deceleration.

In addition to Karls' link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsprung_mass

Also, would I be correct in assuming the 18"s were running a 40 series tyre ? If so the 45 series Falkens slightly taller sidewall would provide a more complient ride ( not dramatically, but noticable )

As for the visual appearance, personally and surprisingly to myself, I think the 17 oem's really suit the car, so they'd probably get my vote too !

 

[Joe_Murphy21187]

I agree Karl, I just don't know the maths to work out what the exaggerated effects would be!

That article is comparing a golf with OEM 15" wheels to 19", which is quite a big step up. On the same basis you'd need to be looking at going from 17" to 21" (or 21.5" if you measure in % diameter increase) on Jeff's A4 (22" on mine as it had 18" as standard). Effects on performance would be minimised due to the high levels or torque generated by the 3.0tdi.

As before, I agree with your point, I just think the article implies the impact will be more significant that it will be in this case (due to OEM size, overall car weight and engine performance).

 

[desertstorm]

The impact is less on a more powerful car but I can tell the difference in my car between the standard 18 inch S line 5 spokes that came with the car and Team dynamics Pro Race 1.2 I normally run in the summer.
The amount of energy stored in a wheel is related to the square of the distance the mass is from the centre and also the square of the speed.
Bigger wheels put the weight of the outer rim and more spokes further out, they also tend to run wider tyres with more tread width, hence again more weight.
The amount of energy stored is also related to the square of the speed thats why a 15 inch wheel is nearly a second faster on the 0-100 mph time than the 19 inch wheels.
The Golf they used has 170bhp so is not a slow car.
What can make things worse is that people tend to fit cheaper tyres when fitting larger wheels. These can have poor rolling resistance figures making the change more noticeable.
In this test they tried to use the same design of wheel and make of tyre to reduce the variables.

Karl.

 

[Joe_Murphy21187]

Anyone got a pic of a B7 cab on some nice looking aftermarket 15" alloys?

Thinking I might be missing out on several fronts running 19's now...

 

[ESD1711]

My S-Line came with those 17's on it as standard too...... another odd inconsistency in the way these things are specced.

It never really bothered me as I never had any intentions of them staying on the car anyway - now they are wrapped in winter tyres and serve a purpose as winter wheels only.

On the plus side......... car goes even lower with them on haha

 

[s3_trev]

What can make things worse is that people tend to fit cheaper tyres when fitting larger wheels.

Excellent point.

 

[jdp1962]

It is, indeed a good point, although right now, the opposite is the case for me. My OEM 17's have Falkens on them, while the 18's are wearing Dunlop Sport Max RTs. That said, I've always had a very high opinion of the Falkens. Their all-round performance belies their mid-price status.

 

[desertstorm]

Pretty much anything in the budget tyres is rubbish in my opinion, and some of them are quite aptly named
Hearse and hero.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/

Falken comes in the midrange tyres which I have used over the years, Toyo, Uniroyal, Kumho and I have Nokian winter tyres on the car at the moment.

Karl.

 

[Charlie Farley]

It is, indeed a good point, although right now, the opposite is the case for me. My OEM 17's have Falkens on them, while the 18's are wearing Dunlop Sport Max RTs. That said, I've always had a very high opinion of the Falkens. Their all-round performance belies their mid-price status.

yep, i have sport max rt's on my 18" dtm's , they are an excellent tyre , but i have seen a lot of reports of the sport max rt's having a poor tread life but mine seem to be lasting just fine, but then again i dont drive like mad person enough to wear them out....

 

[mbb]

Interesting comments. I run the original 16in trapeze five spokes on my SE at the moment.
Like the look of the 18in 5 spoke Ronals but the tyres are ****** expensive and it is a thing of mine, fitting decent tyres.
I do like the 17's as jdp1962 has on his SE.
Other option is to get the 16's I have refurbed, got 2 sets and not have to break the bank every time the tyres need replacing. Getting the car lowered 30mm as well.
Anyone have pictures of a lowered SE on the 16in trapeze alloys?

 

[jdp1962]

Well, having had a week to think about it, I've decided the factory 17's are staying on. Digging around in the shed today, I found the OEM locking bolts, the covers for them, and some spare hexagonal covers for the standard bolts. So I swapped the OEM locking bolts (with covers) back on for the ones that came with the RS4 reps, replaced the missing hexagonal cover, then I clayed, waxed and sealed the wheels. Finished off with an application of Meguiars tyre shine to make it all look very smart

Meanwhile, I've photographed the RS4 reps, and when I have a spare moment, will put them up for sale in the classifieds.

Thank you everyone, not just for the opinions on the wheels, but for the technical knowledge regarding unsprung weight, flywheels and centrifugal force. Most informative thread I've participated in for years!

 

[jdp1962]

For sale here.

 

[Arnie2007]

A bit late to the party, but I like those OEM wheels. They work with your car because of your additions: they sit nicely with the 30mm drop, the door blades and the colour coded LCR splitter. If they were going back on a standard A4 I'd say keep the 18's, but as everything on your A4 is very subtle, it makes them work.

 

[jdp1962]

A bit late to the party, but I like those OEM wheels. They work with your car because of your additions: they sit nicely with the 30mm drop, the door blades and the colour coded LCR splitter. If they were going back on a standard A4 I'd say keep the 18's, but as everything on your A4 is very subtle, it makes them work.

Thank you very much, Arnie!