what the hell

S3 TRS

Registered User
Coming back from birmingham on sunday night, car came to a stop about 10 mins from home.

had to tow it home and then to a garage, and then got word to go take a look at the problem.

This is what i found.
cambelt.jpg


Now, at 80038 miles it is stamped in York Audi service book that the 80000 mile extra service ie cambelt was carried out.

surely this shouldnt happen when there is 30,000 miles left before i need to get this changed again.

anything i can do, or get York Audi to do anything? i was not the owner of the car in 2006 when it was serviced there for the 80000 mile service but surely the whole point of a service book is that there is a record of works carried out on the car!

Anyone have any help to offer in terms of advice?

Thanks
Thom
 

simon.m

Registered User
id like to think you can take it back to york audi as they did the work but im not sure how long the belt is coverd for ie before they can get out of it being there problem
 

S3 TRS

Registered User
yeah, i think audi's viewpoint would be "well you have had it for 4 years, its general wear and tear. sorry not our problem." im guessing....but it should be good for another 80000 miles you would think.

or i have i got cambelt eating worms?
 

markA4tdi

markA4tdi
ouch! audi only offer a 2year parts and labour warranty on cambelts, so unfortunatly im sorry to say i dont think you will have much luck, but hey worth a try
 

simon.m

Registered User
well im thinking if you can prove its the one they put on then it is down to them really. id really like to no why it has gone that way and i think its showing every one here not to have it put on and not have a look at it from time to time ie when you service the car or evan every 6mths to be safe as from what you say you just cant tell if its going to last or not. do you think its eattin it that way as it was to tight?
 

murran

Registered User
looks like something that runs on the back side of the belt has seized up. what sort of engine speed was it doing when it went? you might be lucky....
 

quattrojames

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Oh dear mate :( my heart sank when I saw that ..... When you say it came to a stop, can you describe the symptoms? Was the engine running or did it cut out?

The worry is if the belt has skipped at all - certainly a concern if the belt has shredded itself, possibly one of the pulleys has failed too? Mine did the same thing at 125k after a change at 80k - I foolishly assumed that a belt change would include all pulleys, but evidently the specialist who did the work told me that at the time Audi UK only specified an "Inspection"......

Are you in a position to get the front off and see whats what?

ouch! audi only offer a 2year parts and labour warranty on cambelts, so unfortunatly im sorry to say i dont think you will have much luck, but hey worth a try

Very sadly I agree with you...
 

Paul B7

Registered User
I had a very similar experience several years past on an Audi 80 only six thousand miles after the belt was changed by the main dealer. In my case the fault was caused by the tensioner seizing.
The Audi main dealer wriggled ( in my oppinion ) out of any liability by saying he had only replaced the timing belt as that was all I had requested. Little did I know in those days that I should have requested a new belt AND tensioner.Fortunately for me I hearde belt screaming when driving ( it was rubbing on the seized tensioner ) and managed to stop the car and diagnose the problem myself before a recovery vehicle towed it to the main dealer for a replacement belt and new tensioner.

Paul
 

auroan

Registered User
Looks like a piece of rope has got it's way into the cambelt mec rather than it shredding it's self ?
 

S3 TRS

Registered User
I was doing 50 or there abouts and all of a sudden the engine just cut out. no noises, nothing. similar to running out of petrol.

i opened the bonnet and i could smell a little burning. Tried to start it a couple of times but i just heard the starter motor, nothing else. all electrics work fine. battery changed around 4 months or so ago.

the belt is still wrapped around the pulleys. the bits of fibres that came off went all over.

i cant comment on the tension of the belt, as its not with me at the moment. its with the mechanic.

my mechanic priced audi replacement parts, everything he could think of, to get an idea of what it "might" cost, and came up with £1200 just parts. he will get a price for the same parts but without the audi logo on it which should bring the price down quite a bit.

im getting the cam-belt and water pump replaced and ill ask him to check the pulleys too.

it was still attached to the engine where it should be, just a bit stringy.

im just having to take it one step at a time, because once that kit is on, he then can do a compression test, and find out if pistons etc are screwed. i hate the waiting game.
 

quattrojames

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
IIRC correctly the fuel pump belt is a seperate belt, was that still in place? If not it would explain the cutting out and refusal to restart.

My best advice to you would be to replace the pulleys, they're 'relatively' cheap and its impossible to inspect them and predict their life span remaining. While the front is off do them, and the water pump, its false economy not to. If a pulley goes in 10k time it will wreck your engine, exactly what happened to me, and it costs me £000's......
 

J7USS

Shuddup Foooool!!
Jesus christ, that looks bad!
Dont want to sound Neg or owt but it must have skipped a few teeth atleast else it wouldnt have cut out surely. The thing is we never know NOT to start it after something like this happens because obviously we are eager to know if it will start again. I hope you get it sorted because the 'waiting game' can make you think all sorts. When it happened to me I just thought the worse and told myslef I needed a new engine but I kinda knew anyway.
Good luck pal
 

S3 TRS

Registered User
ok, after 2 and a half weeks of being off the road....... its still off the road. the cambelt kit should be fitted by the end of the week and ill know how bad it is then. just busy saving up, probably going to cost more than £1000 so im preparing myself.

i feel like i have had no car for months!
 

S3 TRS

Registered User
the mechanic is going to do the cambelt and water pump, then do a compression test to see if any of the valves are broken. he had a quote of £30 per valve and the car has 24 valves apparently.

woo hoo

on the upside though, all could be ok.
 

quattrojames

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Its a toothed belt, so if it skips it's generally bad news. However there's a good chance looking at that belt that it would have flailed about and knocked the fuel pump belt off too which would explain the sudden engine stop.
 

S3 TRS

Registered User
hopefully will find out the extent of the damage this weekend. the mechanic working on it sunday and monday.

fingers crossed.
 

S3 TRS

Registered User
Ok, got my cambelt off, pic below:

IMG_0177.jpg


also it was the torsion pully that was snapped which caused the belt to rub against it causing friction and heat which caused it to degrade the way it did.

i had a visit to birmingham from sunderland 3 weeks ago (when it came off) and was doing around 7 hours driving round trip, so i guess if it hadnt snapped then, it would have the following few weeks.

maybe audi didnt change over the pulleys just the belt. i heard that some garages do that to save money or so my mechanic told me anyway.
 

simon.m

Registered User
well if they did try to save money that is just stupid i mean from tps the cam belt kits trade are only 61 pounds for the 1.9 tdi and the hights price i have is for a 2.5 tdi and thats just 113.60 trade and 174.77 none trade so i just dont get why any one would do that i had this where i got my car from put new brakes on it all round but on the 2 back ones just changed one pad on each side makes me mad
 

adamss24

Registered User
Ok, got my cambelt off, pic below:

IMG_0177.jpg


also it was the torsion pully that was snapped which caused the belt to rub against it causing friction and heat which caused it to degrade the way it did.

i had a visit to birmingham from sunderland 3 weeks ago (when it came off) and was doing around 7 hours driving round trip, so i guess if it hadnt snapped then, it would have the following few weeks.

maybe audi didnt change over the pulleys just the belt. i heard that some garages do that to save money or so my mechanic told me anyway.
Before your mechanic starts wasting time with refitting the cambelt, i suggest he's taking the rocker covers off and look for snapped rocker fingers. I really pray you have an AFB/AKE engine and not the later BAU/BDG with cam rollers as there would be major dammage to the cams and followers. If there's any snapped rocker arms then i suggest replacing the lifter, trust washers and rocker arms while the head is dismantled. I really do hope your mechanic has worked on this engine before as they are not easy to work on if inexperienced. I had a cambelt let go on one of me cars due to some garrage tech wich fitted a cheap Dayco belt wich snapped 5ooo miles after fitting. Thing is that it broke the camshaft oil seal housing(its made of cast alloy) and that was a further whole 2 days to remove and refit. Luckily i had no bent valves but i did not tried to start the engine after it stopped. I had to take the heads off anyway as i lapped the valves back in + replaced all the valve stem seals + decreased the compression ratio so i could further tune the engine. Also, replace all tensioners/relay rollers, fit a new water pump and you must replace thermostat with a genuine one (its a belt off if it fails)... I did rebuilt the engine myself but it still costed me about 600 quid in parts and i worked a whole week from start to finish. Its working as good as before now so overall i am pleased...
 

donsajid

Registered User
just showed this thread to my mate who is sh&t hot with the v6 engine, and he said he could refurb fully your 2 heads which includes, cutting-reseating valves, stem seals, cam seals, new gaskets all round, both heads pressure tested and skimmed, fit cambelt kit, get the car running nice, £1500 all in supplied and fit with 1 year warranty.
PM me if your interested. This could go up to £1700 if cams are out of alignment.......
 

brownie 25

Registered User
if the timing belt did jump a tooth what would the symptoms be,the reason i ask is my tensioner for the injector pump went a few days ago, we put in a new tensioner and all was good for 2 days.then today started the car and heard a clonk bang sound so turned it off straight away turns out there was a piece of the old tensioner stuck behind the cam pulley so the bang was that shooting through the plastic housing and breaking the cam seal housing,so changed that aswell.car is running again but it sounds louder than before and there seems to be a knocking sound so ime wondering if it could have jumped a tooth.we did try adjusting the timing on the pump and i quietened it a bit but not enough.


ps sorry for hijacking your thread
 

S3 TRS

Registered User
Before your mechanic starts wasting time with refitting the cambelt, i suggest he's taking the rocker covers off and look for snapped rocker fingers. I really pray you have an AFB/AKE engine and not the later BAU/BDG with cam rollers as there would be major dammage to the cams and followers. If there's any snapped rocker arms then i suggest replacing the lifter, trust washers and rocker arms while the head is dismantled. I really do hope your mechanic has worked on this engine before as they are not easy to work on if inexperienced. I had a cambelt let go on one of me cars due to some garrage tech wich fitted a cheap Dayco belt wich snapped 5ooo miles after fitting. Thing is that it broke the camshaft oil seal housing(its made of cast alloy) and that was a further whole 2 days to remove and refit. Luckily i had no bent valves but i did not tried to start the engine after it stopped. I had to take the heads off anyway as i lapped the valves back in + replaced all the valve stem seals + decreased the compression ratio so i could further tune the engine. Also, replace all tensioners/relay rollers, fit a new water pump and you must replace thermostat with a genuine one (its a belt off if it fails)... I did rebuilt the engine myself but it still costed me about 600 quid in parts and i worked a whole week from start to finish. Its working as good as before now so overall i am pleased...


i think it says i have a BFC engine.
can you see from this pic?

carcodes.jpg


as you look at the front of the car, the left side cam you can turn all the way round, and the right one, turns a bit then stops.

the water pump was leaking due to water rusting the thing it was dripping on,

2 pulleys broke, with one that had ball bearings inside made them come out!

he is replacing the pulleys, some other bits and using genuine / oem replacement parts. the rocker covers are coming off tomorrow hopefully to see whats what. since mine is a september 2002 car, it should have the earlier and therefore luckier engine?
 

donsajid

Registered User
cam not turning because most likely one or more piston is up which is causing valve to hit piston and make the cam stick ie. not rotate fully....turn the bottom end slightly and you should find the piston come down a touch which will allow the valves to open fully, and cam to rotate..
the only way of testing bent valves without putting the belt on is take out the injectors and take out the cams and fill both the inlet holes and exhaust holes with some sort of liquid like wd40 and then look down the injector hole, and if you see the liquid on top of the piston through the injector hole then it means that your valves are bent. Make sure cams are out before testing
 

S3 TRS

Registered User
Update:

all of the rockers had snapped and one even got in one of the camshafts taking a big chunk out of it.
all 24 valves need replacing

going to do an engine rebuild.

decided to get 4 new cams. all 4 were delivered but the only problem is that one was damaged. they are all unique and i have apparently got the only one of that in europe and that one was damaged in transit or by manufacturing defect. either way, the audi warehouse in germany doesnt have any, and will not be getting any till november 3rd. typical.

im having the heads skimmed, and pretty much everything is costing £2500 just parts.

one cylinder head will be sent off to get fitted out after skimming with the valves and cams etc. the other side will have to wait till we get the last replacement cam. the parts company is replacing it Free tho as its not our fault its damaged.

so up to now, there is a limited progress. just hope i get it back before xmas!
 

S3 TRS

Registered User
Also, the mechanic said York Audi most likely DIDNT change the water pump and pulleys when they did the Cambelt at 80,000 miles. the water pump was also leaking. I didnt have the car then so i cant comment. Audi confirmed that the cambelt WAS replaced on the service. Its got 130,000 miles on now.

I have also made a big decision. Ill be keeping this car for the rest of my life, even if i get a new car, ill not be trading this one in. With the money ive spent/will spend i cant see the point in getting a future value of £1000 trade in value for it.
 
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