What's happened to Mercedes?

[RapidAssistant]

Now that Audi is almost consistently the No.2 German luxury brand after BMW, it got me thinking - why have Merc falled from grace?

Yes, it's true they had their "rusty" period in the late '90s which didn't do their reputation any good at all, along with other build and reliability issues but I think their design has gone to pot as well. The current range is so awfully bling these days both inside and out with their overstyled dashboards and fake chrome everywhere; it's almost as if they are trying too hard to be seen as youthful. The current E-Class saloon is hideous, I'd even put the 5-Series as being prettier..... (for a Beemer-hater like me, that's saying something....) , but honestly - look how Jaguar with their current range have successfully managed to pull off reinventing themselves yet kept the old values intact.

In short, I think Audi has become what Mercedes used to be - they've mastered the art of making classy, conservative saloons that are exquisitely detailed and beautifully built. Maybe that's why they have overtaken MB in the global sales stakes.

I always think the golden years for Merc was the mid 70s to late '80s, with cars like the 190E, W123, W124 and the R129 SL (still my dream classic...), but what do others think?

 

[kanecullen89]

I think their late 90's and early 00's reliability issues caused a lot of Mercedes owners to defect to other German brands. It caused a big hit for them and tainted the Mercedes image.

Audi took their place and nobody can deny that build quality and design are pretty fantastic but there are a worrying amount of reliability issues with Audi cars now and this is being noticed by owners of other brands. The once reliable image of Audi is being tarnished.
Hope Audi don't face the same fate as Mercedes due to this

 

[pint-of-mustard]

An interesting article about this on the BBC earlier today...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32332210

 

[Jake 61]

Yes, the same story was aired on MSN today as well.
I don't doubt that we are all committed to the brand on this forum, but, out of forty brands/cars, for about thirty cars that I would consider to be crap, to be more reliable than Audi, is shocking.
The trouble is, it's not like it's a surprise.
My last BKD 140 TDi was easily the most unreliable car I have owned. Only after throwing £3000-4000 at it, did it become anywhere close.

The Vorsprung Durch Tekkies need to take a long hard look at the product and pull it back to where it, (and it's reputation), should be...!

 

[DieselJake]

Mercedes generally have higher purchase prices than equivalent Audi's and BMW's, cost is not always indicator of a desirable/premium product but theirs definitely more stigma around owning a BMW. Whether or not you like Mercedes doesn't make any odds as they are highly desirable and many people are willing to pay the price.

Talking about Mercedes history and older cars doesn't do the argument any justice as a brief look in motor history will show the many times Mercedes was trumped by German rivals ("AMG Hammer" being one of the most well known).

 

[RapidAssistant]

Perhaps the real irony of it all is that - had the people at Daimler-Benz back in the early 1960s when they sold Auto Union to Volkswagen knew what they were actually doing and how future events would unfold. If only they could have had a crystal ball to see how they inadvertently created a future competitor.

 

[RapidAssistant]

An interesting article about this on the BBC earlier today...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32332210

Interesting, although another thing to consider is that aside from the "unintended acceleration" fault that afflicted the 100/200 in the '80s, Audi have never had a really embarrassing global recall or issue that's affected everyone (unlike Merc's rust and paintwork problem in the late 1990s); sure there has been the oil pump drive problem on the 2.0TDIs, but given that Europe is the major market for diesel it never hit global headlines. The reverse is true for all the issues with Multitronics and DSG gearboxes - I'm sure it's made a bigger splash in North America which is a mostly automatic-only market, unlike here in Europe with our preference for three pedals. So this skews the bigger picture somewhat I think.

 

[Imola-S3]

Am I the only one here who thinks that Merc's are like a rash on the road these days.
Driving down the A1 yesterday and almost every car on the overtaking lane was a newish Merc (2010 on).

I actually feel that the only car manufacturer of the 3 mentioned here who are improving the looks of their cars over previous generations are Mercedes - OK, so some are pretty vile looking but they're still better looking than their predecessors... whereas Audi's seem to have taken a step backwards on the new A3 / A4 / A6 models - where the previous generations of these cars were nice looking - especially in the design of the rear lights. I always felt that the older A3 Sportback's had worse looking rear lights than the 3 door variant - yet the newest A3 is looking like the older sportback (and to be fair the new Golf / Leon / A3 all look like the same car from the back end).

You can say the same across the entire VAG range when you're looking at these cars from the back. Where's the originality gone?

I'm liking some of the newer BMW's too... The new 5 Series is a step backwards but the 4 series / 2 series and some of the M Sport 3 series models are quite nice. Also the new M3 Saloon is very nice. But they're too common on the road.

It seems to me that in the area I live there are fewer new Audis on the road than BMW / Mercedes.

 

[S3inSE21]

Mercedes would be a lot more popular if they finally got rid of the ****** awful footbrake. Also, the build quality is terrible, the engines (other than the AMG variants) significantly underpowered in comparison to similar sized engines from other marques, they have lost the plot with regard to styling, and their satnav/media systems rival mid-2000s BMW for being the worst ever made.

 

[AudiLeon96]

I agree with imola-s3 merc have really upped their game recently especially when you compare their newest gen c-class to the previous one it is a massive difference but to be fair a lot of their models are starting to look very similar. I think the new A3 seems rushed but it almost seems like audi had no choice other than to release a new one a early reg 8p started 2003 and late reg 8p finished 2013, there is infact a 63 plate 8p quite local so this shows that audi do keep their cars around for some time. This is also true with the q7, started 56 and still 15plates on autotrader. Seems like they produce cars for a decade each. I'm guessing the a5 and a4 will receive another facelift so the front will look similar to that of the new q3 & q7. Forgot to mention the b6 and b7 are essentially the same car just facelifted. I think they just need to ensure that after a decade when they produce a new car, it actually looks new. BMW are doing some pretty good work in terms of filling in the gaps of their series numbers but they too are becoming awfully predictable

 

[Imola-S3]

Yeah all car manufacturers seem to be doing it... there's so little to distinguish between the models.

If you've a new Audi behind you it's often difficult to tell which model it is... the same can be said for the BMW's, Merc's, Fords, Seats, VW's... They're like the same car but in different shoe sizes.

I personally feel that Audi had the best looks on the B6 A4 when fitted with the GMBH bodykit. The whole car still looks fresh to this day... the rear lights looked right because of the boot lip spoiler, the sides of the car weren't overcomplicated with loads of creases in the panels and the front bumper was spot on - although it probably would've been perfect with a more up to date big grille. I wish Audi would bring back a model which looks like that but with a newer style grille - The closest thing to it that I've seen is the new A3 S-Line Saloon in White.

The 8P A3 was a great shape... a little too common on the road though - but that's down to how well Audi presented the car.

 

[AudiLeon96]

Yeah you're right, back when the b6 was around, the audi models looked different. Although the a6 of that time was ghastly the rest looked quite nice. A8 8l b6 even the a2 IMO. Mercedes also had diversity in their range, I'd say the only two cars that showed any similarity was the w208 clk and e class, everything else looked very different which was a good thing. Ford were just crap with escorts and mondeos that I hated, I still hate ford now, they've lost all taste and imagination not that they had any. Seems like they simply copy, there is something too Aston/jag about the new ford faces. I also spotted a mondeo with progressive indicators which they also took from audi although that idea has been around for some time especially in American cars. You wait ford will cut and shut a mixture of every current car and sell it at a lower price. Sorry I just really deteste ford. The only idea I will say was their own recently was the s-max zetec

 

[Imola-S3]

I agree.... Ford have lost all sight of what makes a nice motor in terms of looks. They've produced a few nice looking cars over the years... I particularly liked the Mondeo ST220, Focus ST and the older RS - and even the Puma... I've owned a few Fords and I found them to all be very reliable cars that drove / handled well - I never had any issues unlike with the 3 Audis and 1 VW I've owned. But their new range of cars are definitely pinching styling ideas from other cars. They're very Aston / Jag like you've said - especially the new Mondeo.
The new Focus styling is hideous - From the front it looks OK but the back end is dreadful... what were Ford thinking.
It looks as though the designers at Ford were struggling for ideas on how to design the tail lights and someone came up with the bright idea of taking a paintball and a catapult and taking their best shot... They facelifted the Focus last year and I expected them to tidy up the back end but they left it as it was and decided to stick an Aston Martin front end on the thing instead.

I never liked the old Audi A6 (before 04) but I feel that the A6 released after then had the best styling of any Audi from the past 10 years. They got the rear lights spot on (much like the B6 A4) but with the nice front end - the S-Line version is lovely.

I dunno... maybe I just don't like lights which extend right out on to the tailgate. They need to be done absolutely spot on in order to pull it off and unfortunately Audi has failed on several models.
The same can be said for the newer range of Golfs.... I miss the lights from the MK4 - they were boxy like the rest of the car... These new light units, whilst trendy looking - aren't quite GOLF. The newer shape POLO is more Golf than what the new Golfs are.

 

[AudiLeon96]

Infact I actually forgot about the puma. The puma was a good looking car as was the ford cougar. I must say though the mondeos and focus of that time just didn't seem to interest me although the facelift focus from 2008-2011 was better looking but the ones before that 2005-2007 looked very tacky and plastic.

It seems like you prefer smaller lights, so I'm guessing you don't like what they did to the a6 c6 in 2008/2009 onwards as they lengthened the rear lights. I quite like the longer rear lights on audis nowadays (not like the audi 80) but I understand your dislike for them as everything on them is quite predictable. I also believe longer bigger rear lights are very JAP. Parents used to own a 1990 accord with huge lights, 90's scoobys had huge lights, the supra had huge lights, rx7 had huge lights, Toyota space cruiser had huge lights. It seems like car makers went through a stage of making small rear lamps and then decided to larger everything up again. With the polo rear lights (current model) im not sure if you've noticed but I think vw did well as they seem to look like a modern take of the polo 6n lights. We need more of that. Inheriting and modernizing parts from previous generation cars so you can at least spot the cars family tree. I understand what you mean with the golf mk4. Everything drastically changed with the mk5 some good and some bad. The mk6 looks pretty much like a mk5 facelift and the mk7 looks like the new seat leon. Not sure if I like the way things are going

 

[Imola-S3]

You're right... the A6 C6 and onwards... what's with that great big lip on the boot... it looks as though you could tuck a full size jack kit up in that ledge! Whilst Audi seem to keep getting it right with the front ends of their cars the back ends continue to become less and less original, although a lot of these lights do look good on a night when lit.

I quite like how they've styled the upcoming Audi Quattro - Those lights are perfect - And they've sort of kept the original Audi Quattro's style of sending the strip right across the back of the car.

Below is how rear lights should be done... I'm hoping they try this style on some of their other models - might set their models apart from the rest of the VAG Models.

 

[AudiLeon96]

Yeah the Quattro concept is a beautiful car. The lights are perfect as well. The thing is you can actually tell this cars predecessor unlike some of the other vag models. I do believe audi could do a lot better if they paid slightly less attention to the lights. It's almost like each car is designed and developed around the lights rather than the other way round. It's almost like the only difference between most models are the lights. I do think though that they paid a lot of attention to detail with the A7. It does remind me of the 2005 Mercedes cls a little bit though.

 

[45bvtc]

Love that 3-door S3...

I do miss mine...

 

[AlexGSi2000]

I think the market has shifted somewhat for Mercedes over the past two decades.

In my opinion, if you had a Mercedes pre-1990 you were rolling in top class, maybe the equivelant of a Porsche 911 kind of status.
As people have mentioned, I think they went through abit of a state in the 90's and early 00's - especially with rust issues.
My dad had a '99 E class that was 5 years old - all the arches were shot at and needed replacing due to rust holes!

I think they entered a new era in around 2010, where they have had to make thier cars more mainstream in terms of pricing to stay competitive.
Finance and lease deals on a low spec C class are equivelant to Mondeos.etc

 

[bonifacy87]

Old Mercedes were class. I know people that did more than 600k miles in them and very rarely had to fix anything.
Today's one apart from s class and AMG series are just an ordinary cars. Nothing special as they used to be especially in eastern Europe.