Worn oil pump hex drive shaft on MY09 2.0 TDI

BenC00

Registered User
I wanted to share my experience on this topic since when i was looking into it i couldn't find anything definitive; Iit appears that this issue affected 2.0 Common Rail TDI engines up to September 2009 across the entire VAG range, signs of wear include metallic rattling sounds on engine tick over and at later stages low engine oil pressure warning(s).
If badly worn, the hex shaft is unable to turn the oil pump thus starving the engine of oil.

My 2009 plate 2.0 CR-TDI 170 DSG w/ engine code CBBB has covered 74k miles under long life servicing with an additional oil change halfway though the long life schedule for added peace of mind.

I just got my car back from the Dealers, it cost around £200 to get the oil pump hex drive shaft changed for the revised version (P/N: 03G 115 281 F (77mm long still but without hollow)).
There is an option to replace the hex shaft with the 100mm version that was fitted to engines after September 2009 but this requires additional work and parts, kits can be obtained online for the conversion but i didn't feel that this was necessary since mine showed very little signs of wear.

I'm adding photos (see below) of the removed hex drive shaft (P/N: 03G 281 D), as you can see it is relatively worn but not as much as i would have expected, it does mean that the oil pump itself has a limited amount of wear. I guess that i could have gone another 20-30k miles without having this done but that could have something to do with the regular oil changes.

My advice is, if your engine falls into the affected category, i would fit or have the revised part fitted during your next service, google will show you many horror stories where in the end replacement engines were required.

image2.JPG

image1.JPG
 
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SootySport

Registered User
Thanks for sharing. £200 at the main dealer is not so bad considering the work involved and will keep most owners happy for some years of ownership.
 

Gazwould

Registered User
OFFS , massive fail , when are people gonna understand this problem properly, it's so simple !

£200 is alot of money just for the hex key change , original 77 mm is hollow , new 77mm is solid , maybe harder, who knows.

The problem is the the balancer shaft keyway is not hexagonal , this is pure planned obsolescence engineering .

Also it is not hard enough , not deep enough and sometimes a little off center .

This is all addressed with a remanufactured modified balancer shaft and longer 100mm key , £215 by exchange KMB Parts Direct .

For a rip off £200 all you have done is put a new key into a poorly designed keyway which now has some wear in it .

F A I L .

audibalshaftmag-jpg.61621
 

Sayam

Well-Known Member
VCDS Map User
£200 super rip off. If you do want to replace just the hex key then it costs around £7 from TPS along with the circlip that holds it in and it deffo isn't £200 of labour.
 

Gazwould

Registered User
An oil change and filter at stealer prices would be included in that .

Still £200 to achieve nothing is bad .
 

SootySport

Registered User
OFFS , massive fail , when are people gonna understand this problem properly, it's so simple !

£200 is alot of money just for the hex key change , original 77 mm is hollow , new 77mm is solid , maybe harder, who knows.

The problem is the the balancer shaft keyway is not hexagonal , this is pure planned obsolescence engineering .

Also it is not hard enough , not deep enough and sometimes a little off center .

This is all addressed with a remanufactured modified balancer shaft and longer 100mm key , £215 by exchange KMB Parts Direct .

For a rip off £200 all you have done is put a new key into a poorly designed keyway which now has some wear in it .

F A I L .

audibalshaftmag-jpg.61621

Yes, I've failed there :sadlike:. I was thinking that £200 was a fair for a new keyway at Audi stealer prices considering the work involved. Doing the job properly at £215 at a good independent would make even more sense.
However for 76k. miles and 6 years the OP's keyway is just about unworn and would hope his new part would give a few years trouble free mileage as well.
 

Gazwould

Registered User
There is no confidence and a few years is just a stipulation , my father's failed at 83k .

Think of a piece of hex bar in a non hexagonal keyway bore spinning at twice engine speed being driven on the very tips of the hexagonal bar edges .

The new 77mm key will be subjected to accelerated wear from the poor fit + worn keyway , it won't take long for it to look like the one replaced , only about 0.5mm has to be worn from the edges of the hex drive key for oil pump drive to be lost .

£215 is for the remanufactured modified balancer shaft and longer harder 100mm hex key in parts alone .
 

mrggg

Registered User
There is no confidence and a few years is just a stipulation , my father's failed at 83k .

Think of a piece of hex bar in a non hexagonal keyway bore spinning at twice engine speed being driven on the very tips of the hexagonal bar edges .

The new 77mm key will be subjected to accelerated wear from the poor fit + worn keyway , it won't take long for it to look like the one replaced , only about 0.5mm has to be worn from the edges of the hex drive key for oil pump drive to be lost .

£215 is for the remanufactured modified balancer shaft and longer harder 100mm hex key in parts alone .

Whats the price fitted? How many hours involved?

Again I have got an audi a3 2.0tdi 170 09 plate and do I definitely need to do this? Or only If it shows the signs, i.e white smoke from exhaust etc?
 

Gazwould

Registered User
Ask Audi by your chassis number or if they can't tell you drop the sump and observe .

Original 77mm keys are hollow. New replacements are now solid which doesn't help .

Revised later harder longer 100 mm key is solid .

IMG_0727_zpsa3eee6d1.jpg



77mm hollow
photo1-9.jpg



100mm solid
Spurdrive.jpg
 

sam100000

Registered User
Ask Audi by your chassis number or if they can't tell you drop the sump and observe .

Original 77mm keys are hollow. New replacements are now solid which doesn't help .

Revised later harder longer 100 mm key is solid .

IMG_0727_zpsa3eee6d1.jpg



77mm hollow
photo1-9.jpg



100mm solid
Spurdrive.jpg

Ok might get this done, how many hours labour?

Also If I was to just replace the hex key with the newer 77mm solid one, theres no guarantee that it wont last? I know you said there could be some damage caused but surely further down the line?

Any other issues with this engine?
 

sam100000

Registered User
There is no confidence and a few years is just a stipulation , my father's failed at 83k .

Think of a piece of hex bar in a non hexagonal keyway bore spinning at twice engine speed being driven on the very tips of the hexagonal bar edges .

The new 77mm key will be subjected to accelerated wear from the poor fit + worn keyway , it won't take long for it to look like the one replaced , only about 0.5mm has to be worn from the edges of the hex drive key for oil pump drive to be lost .

£215 is for the remanufactured modified balancer shaft and longer harder 100mm hex key in parts alone .

was your fathers the solid 77mm or hollow 77mm?
 

sam100000

Registered User
ok so assuming I have the newer CR with the engine code CBBB, I will have a chain or gear driven balance shaft? As I heard the chain one is more complicated and costs more in labour to change?

I would appreciate it if anyone can let me know the cost involved, specifically those who have had their balance shaft and hex key changed on an a3, with the CBBB engine code.
 

c_w

Registered User
I was under the impression that only engines with balancer shafts are prone to this failure? PD170 for example does not have balance shafts, not in the a3 anyway (but does in A4/Passat?).
 

Sayam

Well-Known Member
VCDS Map User
I was under the impression that only engines with balancer shafts are prone to this failure? PD170 for example does not have balance shafts, not in the a3 anyway (but does in A4/Passat?).

PD170 does have them, mate's brother has them on a PD170 58 plate Leon.
 

sam100000

Registered User
PD170 does have them, mate's brother has them on a PD170 58 plate Leon.
Hi Sayam you seem to have the same car as me and the same year

Have you replaced the balance shaft? Think I read that you havent had it done, you just changed the hex key and monitor every 10k, am I right?

Only reason Im asking is because Im trying to find out if our CR engines are affected from 09... dont mind replacing the part when I get some spare cash but its going to be £500 + all in including labour. Did you just change to the 70mm solid key? If you havent done the balance shaft, then why?

Thanks.
 

sam100000

Registered User
Also what difference does it make if the balance shaft is run on a chain or gears? Does this affect the overall problem.

I believe my one is run on gears, would this mean its less likely to fail as such? Could I just change the key?
 

Sayam

Well-Known Member
VCDS Map User
Hi Sayam you seem to have the same car as me and the same year

Have you replaced the balance shaft? Think I read that you havent had it done, you just changed the hex key and monitor every 10k, am I right?

Only reason Im asking is because Im trying to find out if our CR engines are affected from 09... dont mind replacing the part when I get some spare cash but its going to be £500 + all in including labour. Did you just change to the 70mm solid key? If you havent done the balance shaft, then why?

Thanks.

I have 2009 CBBB CR170 engine.

I have replaced the hex key only with the solid one it is still 77mm.

That isn't a permanent fix but it's running OK for now. At some point if I keep the car I will change the whole lot using KMB's kit to the 100mm key.

I haven't done the whole lot because if I remember correctly at the time I changed it, I wasn't aware that KMB's kit existed and the cost is massively different too.
 

sam100000

Registered User
I have 2009 CBBB CR170 engine.

I have replaced the hex key only with the solid one it is still 77mm.

That isn't a permanent fix but it's running OK for now. At some point if I keep the car I will change the whole lot using KMB's kit to the 100mm key.

I haven't done the whole lot because if I remember correctly at the time I changed it, I wasn't aware that KMB's kit existed and the cost is massively different too.

Ok thanks for that.

How many miles has it been since you changed it and do you check it every service?

Do you change your oil regularly, the reason I ask is because my cars been run on Longlife oil services, every 18k, which Im hoping hasnt increased the chances of the oil pump going pear shaped.

Sorry for all the questions, Im someone whos abit OCD when it comes to car maintetance and with a hint of paranoia :(

Thanks.
 

Gazwould

Registered User
Oil quality and intervals have nothing to do with the wear it's just pure engineering obsolescence , they planned it to fail !

Think of a baby pushing different shapes through the corresponding shaped hole, it's that simple , hexagonal for hexagonal , except it isn't !

There is no recommendation of the practice of just refreshing the key , one fits the other albeit a poor fit , it's absolutely both , a 100mm hex key and remanufactured modified balancer shaft .
 

sam100000

Registered User
Oil quality and intervals have nothing to do with the wear it's just pure engineering obsolescence , they planned it to fail !

Think of a baby pushing different shapes through the corresponding shaped hole, it's that simple , hexagonal for hexagonal , except it isn't !

There is no recommendation of the practice of just refreshing the key , one fits the other albeit a poor fit , it's absolutely both , a 100mm hex key and remanufactured modified balancer shaft .

cheers for that. So the gear driven engine with the updated balance shaft and the new 100mm key and i wont have any problems at all?
 

Gazwould

Registered User
It has to be KMB Parts Direct or alike remanufactured modified balancer shaft , 100mm hex key is VAG oem .

The reasons .

Keyway contact lenght increases massively from 15mm of the 77mm to 38-40 mm of the 100mm and remanufactured balancer shaft .

The keyway insert is 10x harder chrome vanadium .

The keyway insert is perfectly centered .

The 100mm oem key is harder.

The keyway is now a true hexagonal bore to receive the hex drive key .


All the 5 reasons and weaknesses are engineered out and the oil pump drive would now be bomb proof .
 

Sayam

Well-Known Member
VCDS Map User
Ok thanks for that.

How many miles has it been since you changed it and do you check it every service?

Do you change your oil regularly, the reason I ask is because my cars been run on Longlife oil services, every 18k, which Im hoping hasnt increased the chances of the oil pump going pear shaped.

Sorry for all the questions, Im someone whos abit OCD when it comes to car maintetance and with a hint of paranoia :(

Thanks.

I don't check it every service although I'm sure I had planned to.

I only do around 5,000 miles per year so the car gets a service together with a MOT in September/October every year.

I definitely don't believe in longlife servicing so wouldn't leave more than 1 year or 10,000 miles between services.

I agree with @Gazwould with regard to his comments about changing the hex drive alone...all I can say is that I feel a little happier knowing I've changed the hex drive rather than just leaving the whole lot. The hex drive that came out of my car was really bad so I may have saved the life of my turbo and/or engine!
 

sam100000

Registered User
I don't check it every service although I'm sure I had planned to.

I only do around 5,000 miles per year so the car gets a service together with a MOT in September/October every year.

I definitely don't believe in longlife servicing so wouldn't leave more than 1 year or 10,000 miles between services.

I agree with @Gazwould with regard to his comments about changing the hex drive alone...all I can say is that I feel a little happier knowing I've changed the hex drive rather than just leaving the whole lot. The hex drive that came out of my car was really bad so I may have saved the life of my turbo and/or engine!

what mileage did you change it?

Thanks for the info.
 

Sayam

Well-Known Member
VCDS Map User
Wouldn't that be a CR engine though?

I'm pretty sure the PD170 engine (BMN) doesn't have balancer shafts, nor the BKD 140 engine of the same period. Well if it does, they don't work very well as it's rough as anything :chuncky:

A good thread here;

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/thread...e-definitive-guide-audi-vw-skoda-seat.140949/

My mate's brother has one on a 58 plate that is still PD. In fact, I think VAG changed the A3 and Golf to CR sooner and used the Leon to find a home for the leftover PD engines they will have had laying about lol.

I don't know if it has balancer shafts, I meant it has a 77mm hex drive driven oil pump not a chain driven one.
 

Gazwould

Registered User
All 2.0 tdi , so early PD chain and gear driven PD and CR have balancer shafts .

The oil pump cassette itself is driven via the hex drive key sticking out of balancer shaft #2 .
 

Audiforlife

Registered User
Ask Audi by your chassis number or if they can't tell you drop the sump and observe .

Original 77mm keys are hollow. New replacements are now solid which doesn't help .

Revised later harder longer 100 mm key is solid .

IMG_0727_zpsa3eee6d1.jpg



77mm hollow
photo1-9.jpg



100mm solid
Spurdrive.jpg

Gaz could you point out on the pictures how to tell the difference? I have bought and fitted a replacement engine and was told the new lump was out of a 2010 vehicle and would like to check this while I have the sump off
Thanks in advance
 

Gazwould

Registered User
The very end of the key retained by the circlip is visible in oil pump cassette in the pics .

New unfitted cassette .
Note the drive is actually hexagonal whereas the balancer shaft keyway isn't .
oil_pump2.png
 

Audiforlife

Registered User
Great information Gaz. But how could I tell if mine has the revised 100mm drive? Would it be a case of removing the circlip and pulling the drive out? Sure I've read somewhere that in 2010 audi solved this problem by fitting a 100mm hex drive and a snug fit hex keyway in the balancer shaft itself? I'm wanting to find out if mine truly is a 2010 engine with the revised key and balancer shaft
 
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Gazwould

Registered User
Yes ultimately withdraw the key but generally , 100 mm is solid and 77 mm , hollow .

The VAG revised keyway isn't bullet proof as even a common rail 100 mm key will show a bit of wear .

IMG_0315_zpsgnti18bk.jpeg


The wear ( contact lenght ) is 35mm with a 100mm and just 15mm with the 77mm .

I highly suspect they kept the same inferoir keyway bore with 6 tiny machined grooves and just more than doubled it's contact lenght .

I've no knowledge of their failings but it could happen much further up the mileage , say 250k + .
 

Audiforlife

Registered User
Gaz mate you are a star! I take it your a vag tech? I wouldn't mind abit of advice as I'm new to diesels. I'm used to working on old vauxhalls and ford's could I pick your brains through pm?

Thanks again
 

Gazwould

Registered User
I'd never be a VAG tech mate , one of them said he would be happy to switch off at the hint of the red stop low oil pressure , words fail me...
 

Audiforlife

Registered User
Totally agree with you Gaz. Every car I've rebuilt has had an oil pressure gauge fitted. In fact I've just found a racetech gauge in my shed.. when the light comes on the damage is already done!
 
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