Hit a friggin massive pot hole, car appears to be damaged!

[SDHA4SLine]

My luck's not so good lately... after recently suffering at the hands of a hit and run incident, I've now managed to hit a massive (and I mean massive) pot hole on M6. Was travelling at a slightly naughty 80mph and was changing lanes when it happened, I just didn't see it in time to avoid it.

Anyway thought I'd got away with it until I noticed the car is vibrating violently under braking at speeds in excess of 65mph. Unless it's pure coincidence that my discs have decided to self-destruct for the fourth time (it's a long story!) in a couple of years then I've sustained some damage from said pothole.

I'm assuming it's suspension or suspension arm damage thats causing this some how? as there's no vibration or noise when not under braking. I'll find out soon enough when I get it booked in to a garage for investigation but thought I'd ask in case anyone has ever had the misfortune of a similar accident that could offer advice on what to have checked out?

My 1st thought was to ask for tyres and alloys to be checked for damage/balance followed by visual inspection of suspension arms etc. Other than that I'm all out of ideas but don't really want to give an open chequebook to the garage to keep checking/replacing things until it's fixed! I've had a quick look myself and nothing obvious to be seen. Other than the braking issue all seems fine.

Any advice appreciated thanks in advance

Steve

 

[Retroman]

Obviously, only an internet forum guess as I’m not on the spot so to speak. Normally with nasty potholes the items damaged are one or more of the following: - the coil spring, wheel rim or tyre. As you are getting vibration upon braking I would doubt that the disc has been damaged, however, the calliper mounting bracket is connected to the rear of the hub as is the lower control arm. If the lower control arm is damaged or bent in some way it would not be holding the hub under the correct tension and so braking could initiate unwanted vibration to transmit into the car/steering.

 

[SDHA4SLine]

Obviously, only an internet forum guess as I’m not on the spot so to speak. Normally with nasty potholes the items damaged are one or more of the following: - the coil spring, wheel rim or tyre. As you are getting vibration upon braking I would doubt that the disc has been damaged, however, the calliper mounting bracket is connected to the rear of the hub as is the lower control arm. If the lower control arm is damaged or bent in some way it would not be holding the hub under the correct tension and so braking could initiate unwanted vibration to transmit into the car/steering.

Thanks

 

[Charlie Farley]

that's a real pain in the bum steve, I hate to say it but that's two and things happen in three's so be carefull.
Anyway, it may have not been as big a pot hole as you may think, as with a lot of cars with firmer suspension any small pothole can feel like a massive crater, just think how much worse it could have been with even lower profile rubber that what you have at the moment, you have got off lucky if the rims not damaged, but that's not too say its not made a small amount of less visible rim damage, possibly the rim may be slightly out of round now, not really buckled but maybe a small degree of runout maybe present if it was a heavy impact, don't forget the tyre would have absorbed a heck of a lot of impact force first, as would the suspension etc.
best case your tracking and alignment will be only items effected, but worse case damage to suspension parts may have occurred etc aswell.
If you think about it steve, your travelling along at X speed and your wheel suddenly hits a pot hole, whats the first thing that will happen, depending on the size and depth of the hole, plus the speed of the your car , the wheel will drop into the hole add that to forward montion of lets say 70 mph and its not going to be in the hole long to be honest, probably just skim the surface of it, but, its the force your suspension will be exposed too when the wheel hits that hole wether its abig hole or small one, you front suspension strut and linkages will have to absorb the force of impact from a frontal impact more than a downward montion and that is where the issues can arise, hopefully you will be ok with just a suspension alighment check and possible adjustment, but get them to check everything out .
hope you get it sorted steve , oh and for future ref , avoid the M6 in the future....

 

[SDHA4SLine]

that's a real pain in the bum steve, I hate to say it but that's two and things happen in three's so be carefull.
Anyway, it may have not been as big a pot hole as you may think, as with a lot of cars with firmer suspension any small pothole can feel like a massive crater, just think how much worse it could have been with even lower profile rubber that what you have at the moment, you have got off lucky if the rims not damaged, but that's not too say its not made a small amount of less visible rim damage, possibly the rim may be slightly out of round now, not really buckled but maybe a small degree of runout maybe present if it was a heavy impact, don't forget the tyre would have absorbed a heck of a lot of impact force first, as would the suspension etc.
best case your tracking and alignment will be only items effected, but worse case damage to suspension parts may have occurred etc aswell.
If you think about it steve, your travelling along at X speed and your wheel suddenly hits a pot hole, whats the first thing that will happen, depending on the size and depth of the hole, plus the speed of the your car , the wheel will drop into the hole add that to forward montion of lets say 70 mph and its not going to be in the hole long to be honest, probably just skim the surface of it, but, its the force your suspension will be exposed too when the wheel hits that hole wether its abig hole or small one, you front suspension strut and linkages will have to absorb the force of impact from a frontal impact more than a downward montion and that is where the issues can arise, hopefully you will be ok with just a suspension alighment check and possible adjustment, but get them to check everything out .
hope you get it sorted steve , oh and for future ref , avoid the M6 in the future....

Thanks. The pot hole was a big one, the thud/bang went right through my spine, it literally hurt!

Avoiding the m6 is unfortunately only an option if I commute through Coventry on the A45 so think I'll stick with my current route

 

[Charlie Farley]

wow that must have been a biggy then steve, best get to checked it out properly then, amazed there is no rim or tyre damage, double check the tyre and sidewall for damage like small bubbles or slices, big impact can weeken the sidewall a lot and bubbles may just appear if they haven't already.

 

[Mart838]

Put a claim in against the local authority who manage this section of motorway, they will immediately fob you off with a standard letter but respond using the templates from money saving expert website.
A colleague got a new alloy and suspension parts paid for last month.

 

[Nozrul Islam]

Where there's a blame, there's a claim!
Steve I would try that - you got nothing to loose.

 

[SDHA4SLine]

Where there's a blame, there's a claim!
Steve I would try that - you got nothing to loose.

Already called the highways agency to report the pot hole and they asked me if there was any damage to the car. I said yes and they said they'd send out some claim forms!

Good thing is I've since found out it (the pot hole) was already known to them and was in the queue to be fixed which apparently goes in my favour in the case of a claim

 

[Nozrul Islam]

Excellent news indeed, well done Steve matey!

 

[Charlie Farley]

Good news then Steve ,
Keep us up to spec on what the damage is.

 

[carlcall]

Ouch Steve and I hope you get it sorted out pal!

 

[SDHA4SLine]

Update...

Well this is very weird, I haven't used my car over the weekend and on my drive to work today I barely noticed any vibration when braking. The slight bit of vibration I did notice may not even be there as I was listening/feeling for it under breaking being all paranoid, I guess I've some kind of reverse placebo effect.

Now wondering if it has damaged something on the abs that's giving me a intermittent fault or similar?

Will find out soon enough as having all 4 wheels/tyres checked for damage and balance and wheel alignment tomorrow then into a garage on Wednesday to check suspension linkages etc

 

[lfcrule1972]

I hit a massive pothole in my Astra SRi a few years back, it damaged the tyre and also the suspension arm (which had to be replaced at my cost after my local council fought me for 2 years over the claim and I eventually gave up)

Hopefully it's nothing too expensive if you have to pay for it yourself.

 

[SDHA4SLine]

Really hoping its not any suspension damage as I had it all replaced last year. Springs, shocks, arb's, drop links, bushes, upper and lower arms/linkages, tie rod ends, wheel hubs, discs and pads the list goes on! you name it, I had it replaced

 

[DrStrange]

I too had the same bad luck but worse.

Early this year i went over a pot hole as big as the moon. Guess what..my rim cracked in 3 places. Had to buy a new rim and tyre and currenlty fighting the council as they owe me money.

Unfortunately, your car has been damaged in some way and its not your fault. I would get a professionals opinion as to the possilbe damage caused and the bill and send it the councils way.

Im furious for you as the council will try their best to not pay out. Just be persistent and they will..fingers crossed.

 

[lfcrule1972]

I did all of that but back then the council flat refused and we just traded letters and emails for 2 years

Hopefully that won't apply here.

 

[DrStrange]

I did all of that but back then the council flat refused and we just traded letters and emails for 2 years

Hopefully that won't apply here.

I Feel for you. That is simply ridiculous. So we pay a road tax like a charity case!

 

[lfcrule1972]

Yep - they spouted lots of rubbish about not being responsible and it hadn't been reported so not their fault etc etc

 

[DrStrange]

Yep - they spouted lots of rubbish about not being responsible and it hadn't been reported so not their fault etc etc

Dude thats bullsh*t. Of course they are responsible. If you go over a pot hole deeper than a 20p piece and damage your car, you have a right to claim.

If you have the energy, I would be inclined to continue battling and perhaps take it to small claims court if need be.

I Googled 'Martin Lewis - Money saving expert - Potholes'

You should then find lots of helpful advise on how to complain and a nice template.

 

[SDHA4SLine]

Update....

All four wheels were re balanced today and checked for damage (none found on wheels or tyres).

Tracking very slightly out, will get that done when this is all sorted.

No visible damage other than gaiter is split on tie rod end so the mystery continues as to the cause

 

[Charlie Farley]

well that's sort of good news steve, nothing major found is also a plus point, maybe things will sort themselves out after a few miles etc.

 

[SDHA4SLine]

I hope so but doubt it. I wonder if it really is pure coincidence that my curse of warping discs returned at this time. Thinking about it, I do have to lean on the brakes to get the issue to appear. Maybe it's the dog sh@t pagid discs warping when they're getting hot and sorting themselves out again once cool

 

[Retroman]

Please don't say that about Pagid discs I've just fitted them all round on my A3 lol

 

[desertstorm]

It's not very often at all that discs wear. The problem is usually caused by pad pick up. The pad material is transferred to the disc surface in patches.
http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/-warped-brake-disc-and-other-myths
More likely an issue with the pads and the way the brakes are used. You need to avoid holding the brakes on when the vechicle is stationary or applying the handbrake if the discs are hot. This will cause pad pick up in that point. You can sometimes see it as a pad outline on the disc.
This will cause vibration when the disc is hot and of course that will disappear when the disc is changed.

 

[DrStrange]

Great advice

It's not very often at all that discs wear. The problem is usually caused by pad pick up. The pad material is transferred to the disc surface in patches.
http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/-warped-brake-disc-and-other-myths
More likely an issue with the pads and the way the brakes are used. You need to avoid holding the brakes on when the vechicle is stationary or applying the handbrake if the discs are hot. This will cause pad pick up in that point. You can sometimes see it as a pad outline on the disc.
This will cause vibration when the disc is hot and of course that will disappear when the disc is changed.

Great advice and thanks for posting.

Im no expert but definitely recommend not holding the brakes when stationary. I can see why now.

Steve - Glad the damage is small to none!

 

[Ianski68]

Glad it was nothing major dude.

 

[SDHA4SLine]

Not sure of its minor yet, I live in hope

 

[joinerman]

I believe once a hole is reported to the highways agency they have twelve hours to repair it, after that any damage to other vehicles must be paid for.

 

[DrStrange]

Close..actually, you can claim and win even though a hole has been filled. (2 friends have done this)

..Crafty buggers, trying to fill it ASAP before a claim is made to deter people.

 

[SDHA4SLine]

Ok I have an update and root cause. Turns out it was complete coincidence and nothing to do with the pot hole indecent...

Front n/s caliper has started to seize up which was over heating the discs, kind of relieved but annoying as it's still going to be expensive to fix (current garage is recommending a replacement caliper rather than a refurb). Also my calipers are painted so it's gonna look odd with one new one in a slightly different shade of silver.

On Friday I tried to get to work but only got a few miles before I started to smell the brakes burning so I can't really drive it 30 odd miles to my preferred independent garage.

Some options, what would you do?
1) replace with genuine calliper, job done but one calliper in different shade of silver so maybe take it somewhere to get them repainted.
2) as above but cheaper, (£90 ish cheaper) pagid calliper. Not sure if I'd want a pagid calliper given my experience of their pads and discs!
3) replace both calipers with pagid (as above not sure on pagid calipers?) which is a little more expensive than one original calliper but I would have matching calipers and in addition I expect the o/s calliper to be on its way out too knowing my luck.
4) take yet more time off work drive it a few miles away from my home and break down, then get it towed to a garage that offers refurbishing services (though at this time I'm not sure if it's too far gone so a bit of a gamble). Tbh I need the car back quickly so this may take too long assuming it'll need to be sent off to a specialist for the refurb.

Option options, what would you do ?

 

[carlcall]

I personally would get a repair kit and rebuild it myself.....but I have access to a blasting cabinet so I can clean it all up.

I know you've had problems with pads n discs in the past Steve, but could this no be down to the callipers you have on the car a present? I can remember reading what it was but can't remember the problems you had.

I myself would think that the Pagid callipers would be fine and not a hard job to do yourself pal.

 

[SDHA4SLine]

I personally would get a repair kit and rebuild it myself.....but I have access to a blasting cabinet so I can clean it all up.

I know you've had problems with pads n discs in the past Steve, but could this no be down to the callipers you have on the car a present? I can remember reading what it was but can't remember the problems you had.

I myself would think that the Pagid callipers would be fine and not a hard job to do yourself pal.

regarding labour costs vs doing it myself I'm kind of between a rock and a hard place! I've already paid the garage an hours labour for investigation, and it's still stripped down on the ramps. They are charging me half and hour to refit a new one or same to put it back together for me to take it away. It's more a time constraint at the moment, so if I did fix it myself it's going to be a few days for me to get source the parts etc plus I'm not confident in my abilities to recon brakes.

I think for this reason I'll have to trust them and go with them replacing the caliper, hopefully it's not part ex then I could possibly refurb mine existing caliper and sell on to recoup some money.

 

[carlcall]

Are you just going to have the one done Steve or both?

 

[SDHA4SLine]

Are you just going to have the one done Steve or both?

Depending on the research/reviews/feedback on the pagid calipers I will probably go for both. Then I could sell the old ones on (depending if I can get the faulty one refurbed)

So far undecided but I'm leaning towards the above