The people that think I hate S3's...

[Dave_Bayern]

I don't hate the S3 or you guys with them, and I'm not jealous of you, in fact I PITY you.

Got the A3 back today, mapped with Texaco 95RON fuel.


Suck my Salty balls:

That was the first map, it has now been changed to a smoother, much less aggressive map as the power levels shown were stretching my injectors and pump to the limit.

The car is AMAZING and just keeps on going, constantly.

I'll be sticking on the dyno with 99RON and some new spark plugs in about a month to see what it settles down to.

 

[Katy_S3]

so does that mean your running 257 bhp sorry im not an expert in these graph things

 

[Dave_Bayern]

The graph was the first map, and its since been changed to be more reliable and smoother instead of all out power, so it'll be more likely 235-240 with 99 RON fuel and the Denso spark plugs I was supposed to put in before getting it mapped.

Makes it approximately 200Bhp per ton, but that will be confirmed soon.

For comparison a standard S3 is 160Bhp per ton and a remapped S3 is 185Bhp per ton.

 

[mk1chopper]

fair play dave.

 

[claudefrog]

what mods are you running?

 

[Dave_Bayern]

K03s
3" Downpipe to Decat to 2.5" Milltek back
Forge TIP
Forge 007p
APR Carbonio
Godspeed/Greddy Front Mount Intercooler

Some other stuff I'll have forgotton, but thats only on the engine side, I also run a VR6 clutch and very light flywheel to help me put the power down more efficiently.

 

[StaffsS3]

Nice one Dave,

Each to their own I suppose, couldn't bring myself to buy a 1.8t as my Grandfather owned one. He sold it for an S3 after seeing the light......

Doesn't matter what BHP per tonne you have, it will still be crap in the snow!!!

 

[claudefrog]

what boost are you running your turbo at?

just 99% of people with those mods make around the 230 mark.

are storm doing the mapping?

 

[nick-barnes07]

what dyno did you have that done on , good results

 

[PocketRocket]

Is your car 150HP or 180HP stock?

Also, in the graph, the black (1st gear) line falls at 5200rmps, does that happen on all runs? or was it only in that run?

 

[S3MHT]

That is impressive dave, There is a lad who lives opposite me with an A3 sport which is remapped, we had a race in the dry and we were about even until country lane corners.

BUT when it is wet his car is crap it wheel spins in every gear dunno if yours is the same????

 

[[Dave B]]

K03s
3" Downpipe to Decat to 2.5" Milltek back
Forge TIP
Forge 007p
APR Carbonio
Godspeed/Greddy Front Mount Intercooler

Some other stuff I'll have forgotton, but thats only on the engine side, I also run a VR6 clutch and very light flywheel to help me put the power down more efficiently.

And what did all that cost you + the car purchase price + time fitting/mapping etc - what you'll lose if you sell it with it all on (or + the time spent taking it off if you decide to do so)....?

I'm all for modding cars and going faster but calm down mate, as an S3 owner I certainly don't need your pity. If it was all about bhp per ton I wouldn't of bought anything from the Audi fold.

 

[edward_harris]

Shame its front wheel drive tho! Put it up against my s3?!

 

[edward_harris]

+ where can you get 99 octane stuff?

 

[nky_84]

What is it you pity about "us"?
Why was it mapped on 95?

IIRC a standard s3 weighs in at around 1375KG's an a decent remap should see 265bhp so thats more like 196bhp/ton if my maths stands correct.

Also, if your main aim is to have a quick performance car, why chose a heavy audi?

 

[nky_84]

That is impressive dave, There is a lad who lives opposite me with an A3 sport which is remapped, we had a race in the dry and we were about even until country lane corners.

BUT when it is wet his car is crap it wheel spins in every gear dunno if yours is the same????

I think he has an LSD, so that will help to an extent.

+ where can you get 99 octane stuff?

Tesco does 99RON.

 

[edward_harris]

i thought it was 98!

 

[Dave_Bayern]

I remapped it because it was cheap to buy, easy to support/maintain, different from the Golf its based on, and very cheap to upgrade.

If anyone had actually read the posts I've done previously you'll see I've spent very little on mods by way of getting them from eBay or importing from the USA.

S3's mostly weigh closer to 1400Kg and have massive transmission losses due to the Haldex system.

Whereas a LSD on the FWD with more Bhp per ton is going to make a better car for the track work I intend to do with it.

I literally picked it up today so no idea about traction yet, its pretty dry right now, but the final graph I got at 235Bhp is VERY smooth.

It got mapped on 95RON because I was leaving for the USA and literally didnt have time to get proper fuel in there.

Oh yeah, and the pity thing is a **** take, after everyone decided I had S3 Envy.

 

[Ess_Three]

Shame its front wheel drive tho! Put it up against my s3?!

I'd put my 318 NA BHP against your 350 ish turbo BHP Ed...

 

[Ess_Three]

S3's mostly weigh closer to 1400Kg and have massive transmission losses due to the Haldex system.

I think mine was listed at 1389 Kg.
I had about 210/215 BHP at the wheels...so I reckon that's probably about the same as your A3 Dave, or slightly more.

I wouldn't have thought there'd be much in it bearing in mind the S3s tend to run higher usable torque.

Whereas a LSD on the FWD with more Bhp per ton is going to make a better car for the track work I intend to do with it.

How do you see that comparing against same power to weight ratio, but with more torque and Haldex?

I'd still argue that it's easier to make an S3 handle better based on the more adjustable base for the suspension...but it'll cost considerably more.
The A3 will probably be on the same pace in the dry...for way less cash....and with less to go wrong and wear out.

 

[golf]

Have you considered upgrading your injectors? I hear the TT 225 bhp 386CC injectors work well on these engines.

 

[nky_84]

I'd put my 318 NA BHP against your 350 ish turbo BHP Ed...

I'd put my 100+bhp up against both of you, only stipulation is that it has to be round Kames!!

 

[Dave_Bayern]

I'm not doing ANY more work to it.

But yeah, Glenn, the reason for me it'll make a WAY better track day is the now very comparable performance specs but the way cheaper maintaining of the A3 chassis and the far more numerous products and the far, far more knowledge from other people with the Mk4 based car.

As for an S3 running more usable torque, what are you basing that on? I am going to be taking my car to a proper FIA rolling road and getting a real print out but useable torque very much depends on what you intend to do with it and the K03s seems to deliver very well.

Going to work on importing this mustang instead.

 

[D-Tech Performance]

Have you considered upgrading your injectors? I hear the TT 225 bhp 386CC injectors work well on these engines.

same as s3 injectors mate gains could be seen agreed...

well done dave altho ive seen Ko3s set ups with only a few more minor tweaks hit 253bhp @wheels

i feel the pity mate lol ****** haldex spoils the fun

 

[Dave_Bayern]

ive seen Ko3s set ups with only a few more minor tweaks hit 253bhp @wheels

Like what?

As far as I understood, the most air the thing will flow, even running approx 22psi will only make 240ish?

Sounds interesting...

 

[S3Steve]

same as s3 injectors mate gains could be seen agreed...

well done dave altho ive seen Ko3s set ups with only a few more minor tweaks hit 253bhp @wheels

i feel the pity mate lol ****** haldex spoils the fun

Are you sure it was 253 bhp at the wheels, even at the flywheel that is a massive figure for a KO3s?

 

[Prawn]

ill stick my neck out and say thats quite simply not at all possible on a ko3S.

to be getting 253 at the wheels, even with the tighetest of boxes, it would have to be pulling 280 at the flywheel......

which according to the flow charts for the ko3S, is simply not possible.

even the BEST mapped S3's running ko4's only hit 275....

 

[Dave_Bayern]

Yup, exactly.

We KNOW 255 is possible at flywheel, and thats at the very edge of the envelope

 

[Ess_Three]

But yeah, Glenn, the reason for me it'll make a WAY better track day is the now very comparable performance specs but the way cheaper maintaining of the A3 chassis and the far more numerous products and the far, far more knowledge from other people with the Mk4 based car.

I'm not sure it will make the 'better' track car.
FWD will get to the limit of it's chassis before the 4WD car will...and that limit will surely be lower grip?
Better as in more fun, perhaps?
But faster lap times, all weathers? I'm not convinced.

The S3 is much more adjustable by way of things the user can to to set the car up, compared to the FWD A3.

As for an S3 running more usable torque, what are you basing that on?

Basically, you don't see too many A3 K03 cars running 320+ BHP...whereas it's easy to get, run and actually be able to use 320 lb-ft in an S3.

I found 330+ was getting to the point it was unpredicatable...but pegged to 315-320 lb-ft you could use all of the torque, all of the time.

What does your mapped K03S put out?

I'm going on my experience...but even with a LSD, 200+ lb-ft will be a problem in a FWD car...to use all the time, all weathers, without traction control (not the standard guff...but Racelogic or similar)

I am going to be taking my car to a proper FIA rolling road and getting a real print out but useable torque very much depends on what you intend to do with it and the K03s seems to deliver very well.

I'd say 'usable' torque is how much you can use, all day, every day, all weathers...which on a well set up S3, I think is about 320 lb-ft.
And with 320 lb-ft, the extra weight of the S3 coming out of corners, is negated somewhat!

As for the rolling road...as long as it is compensated to Din70015 (I think that's the standard) and seems accurate...gains are gains.

My S3 made 208 BHP and 199 lb-ft on Stars dyno when new...
30+ dyno plots later it was making 275+ BHP and 330+ lb-ft, every run, any day, any atmospheric conditions...on Optimax.


Lets also forget...big torque combined with shorter gears = quick accelleration...
It would be an interesting comparison, that's for sure.

Not looking for an argument...just looking for views!

 

[jcs356]

My 2p.

Worth remembering that the front wheel drive 8L A3 has the 'simple' rear torsion beam(?) suspension which was only made fully independent on front wheel drive A3s with the 8P model (and the other cars which share the platform e.g. Mk5 Golf). The Mk1 Focus was one of the first cars in the segment to offer independent rear suspension, and everyone raved about how well it handled so all the manufacturers introduced IRS into their next models - i.e. 8P A3, Mk5 Golf, latest Astra etc.

The 4WD version of the 8L chassis and the other cars which use the same platform (TT, 4Motion etc) had IRS from the start. So comparing the FWD and 4WD chassis (and discounting which wheels are actually driven), the rear suspension on the 4WD is better and thus should always outperform the equivalent FWD rear suspension if the same mods are made to both cars.

Dave, your car looks great, and I am planning on following a similar route to yourself in the future. I currently run my 8v Ibiza GTi as a track day toy and it is slowly rusting into oblivion. When it finally gives up the ghost I'm going to replace it with a Mk3 Ibiza 1.8T, transfer across almost all of the mods, and upgrade the turbo to a K03S and strip the car down, ending up with a sub 1000 kilo car running well over 200 bhp at the flywheel.

 

[Jampublic]

Sounds good Dave!

When do i get a spin in it then?

Am I the one that may have started the 'you hate S3' campaign! lol I doubt it! But I can see it has put the cat amongst the pigeons already!

 

[S3 AD]

thats the first time anyone has ever pittied me for having an S3. 250+ bhp or not no way I would swap my S3 for a FWD A3!!

 

[Dave_Bayern]

Ess - Yeah, more fun is a definate, I'm not aiming for ever faster lap times, the end goal for me taking my car on a track is an awesome day out, not shaving 0.5 seconds off a lap time.

I'm not sure on any numbers on the car in current condition other than the above supplied map, measured at the wheels, which is 173Bhp @5068 and 192ft.lbs @ 4353, so as for actual measured maximums, I'll need to wait until its been on another rolling road, and I've changed my plugs and put some 99 in it. The above results and graph were all using 95RON fuel.

Given that I have massively increased the Bhp and Torque to a point where traction is now a proper issue, It'll be instresting to see, but the curve itself as per above is very smooth, so the torque I am producing is very usable.

You have to remember you are also comparing a 330Bhp S3 to a 230-250Bhp A3, which lets face it, are in different leagues for power AND most definately price.

The more relevant comparison would be a remapped S3 vs my A3, and not my A3 vs a big turbo conversion on an S3.

Jam - The 19th is the next time I'm around on a weekend unless you want to pop over after work some day.

And for the pity lot, you may well never swap your S3's for a lowly FWD based A3, despite the power, but I know that I can drive mine properly and I'd bet most of you lot can't, as its MEGA rare to see an S3 on the the track, so I'll leave it at that....

 

[jojo]

The people that think I hate S3's...

I don't think you hate S3's Dave, it's been clear to me now that with all this weighing up the costs etc., you clearly can't afford an S3!





I'm only kidding mate, good work with conversion, should be a hoot on the track.

 

[madvw]

as its MEGA rare to see an S3 on the the track..

Ever been to audi Driver International?

 

[Dave_Bayern]

Ever been to audi Driver International?

Bwahahaha, thats like me saying "You never see Ford GT's on the track" and then you replying with 'Ever been to a Ford Trackday'.


And no, I couldnt justify the price of an S3 given the overall cost of the A3 plus mods, as I dont intend to sell it, so resale is out of the factor.

When I bought my A3 and started work, S3's were still on the high end of 17K.

 

[S3 AD]

''I know that I can drive mine properly '' ihahahah is therenayone on here or any other car forum that thinks any different

 

[Dave_Bayern]

I am also incredibly good looking and could shag all of your birds if I wanted to, because I'm lush me like :icon_thumright:

 

[golf]

''I know that I can drive mine properly '' ihahahah is therenayone on here or any other car forum that thinks any different

I think he was referring to actually being able to use it on a track, as opposed to boasting about his driving skills.

 

[[Dave B]]

but I know that I can drive mine properly....

I'd hope so, otherwise all the mods are a complete waste of cash really aren't they, you little Lewis Hamilton you...