Prawn and BigAls A3 Track Car

[StaceyS3]

Not good mate, **** poor management and unprofessional.

Says a lot that wasn't even willing to listen to how to improve it for future occurrences.

Its a shame but there's just some people out there that know best and really can't suck it up and be a man and admit they're wrong!

 

[george_seamons]

You should send a link to this post to the organisers. As you say, very very different perspective from inside the car!

 

[antwan64og]

Its as though they don't don't take safety seriously maybe because it wasn't an official race event and THATs the serious offence here.

If someone had been on the track helping someone out of a flipped over car or picking up debris they might of got nailed at 70mph.

Having done MSA events they make piggin sure you see the flag hanging over barriers in front of the car. End of the day its not about rules, its about people not getting maimed or deaded.

Least you had fun anyway

 

[nightroamer]

As someone who has done a few years of marshalling in the past this is just awful.

There are occasions when you don't have enough people to man every post, in which case you man the high priority posts, these are always the entry to a corner on the outside. The posts are always positioned far enough before the corner to make them obvious before anyone is looking toward the corner/apex.
Why they have chosen to man the post that far into the corner is beyond me!!

Also saw mention of the figure of 8 flagging technique. This is what is correctly taught to a flag Marshall, idea being that the flag is waved in a figure of 8 broad side to the oncoming traffic which significantly increases the surface area, clearly this guy is a complete pleb and has not listened to a thing he was taught as he is flapping the end of the flag pole at the traffic making it neigh on invisible!!

Poor management and poor show from the marshals who should know better!!!

Hope you still managed some fun Prawny, here's hoping the next event is much more professional in its running

 

[badger5]

So, as BigAl had alluded to, I 'missed' a red flag.

i don't for one minute believe the flag wasn't shown, it clearly was, but the position and manner in which the flag was shown were wholy inappropriate.

So, to elaborate, start by watching this clip, which is aimed RIGHT at the Marshall, and makes it seem rather more obvious than it was.



Watch all the way through.......

So, to the in car:

1:05 on the time stamp, entering bobbies. Marshall post 12 on the left empty:



Time stamp 1:15, exiting bobbies, passing 3 slow cars on the left. Traffic light just vissible top left of the Clio, lights not illuminated:



A second later, time stamp 1:16, same light still not illuminated:



Time stamp 1:20, I overtake the Clio. Marshall points 12 and 13 also empty.



Does the circle on the red look like s good idea for a flag location to you?

Time stamp 1:22, at the corner now and notice debris on the track. Still no clear flag on entry, VERY hard on the brakes not wanting to go round at full speed on debris:



Red flag man must be stick thin and waving the flag direct at me 'pole on', as this image shows, whilst you can see him in th external video, he's totally invisible from on the car!

Time stamp 1:23, flag man is now just about visible to those with 20:20, not that you should be looking over there at that point on the corner.
Traffic light head straight ahead still not showing any clear red. I'm told
These flash, but of they're flashing at such a low frequency, you could stare at them for a second and still not see a red light!



Half a second later at 1:24 I've slowed right down, traffic light still not apparent, and flag man obviously bored at half mast.



Clio chap behind me still hasn't seen the red, almost fails to stop behind me and gets very out of shape, then continues to power past me after the bend before seeing the first CLEAR red at the start line.

Result: I was banned the the remainder of the day. No prior warnings, no talking to, just instant dismissal with any option for discussion or reasoning.


Several others on the day had had multiple warnings, for missing flags, diving down the inside, and generally driving too aggressively. I'd stayed completely out of trouble, yet get evicted on the first offence.

I accepted their decision, and asked to discuss the position of the red flag from a safety point of view, but was told they were 'not prepared to enter into a debate with me'

So, there's the story. I did miss the flag, I can't deny that, but I believe the positioning of said flag, and the way the incident was dealt with? Was totally inappropriate.

At the time I had a que of 5 people, who'd all paid £20 to MM for a ride, I even brought this up with the track manager, who wasn't interested. He'd sooner see a charity refund £100 then go back on a bad decision!

Oh well!

I still had fun

I'll post the happier bits tomorrow!

Did the lights come on at all for Red flashing?

 

[badger5]

Its as though they don't don't take safety seriously maybe because it wasn't an official race event and THATs the serious offence here.

If someone had been on the track helping someone out of a flipped over car or picking up debris they might of got nailed at 70mph.

Having done MSA events they make piggin sure you see the flag hanging over barriers in front of the car. End of the day its not about rules, its about people not getting maimed or deaded.

Least you had fun anyway

Inadequate level of marshalling on the day.. Flags after the hazard are after all pretty pointless.
Many cars on track, as many as a race day but hardly any marshal's posts manned.
Hmmmm

 

[bigal 1]

WHY did the "management " not spot the fluid coming off the Toyota just before the bend. It took some 22 seconds for the yellow flag to be waved AND it was not readily available, he had to walk to get it
I was told of another incident regarding a TT owner who's car was leaking oil along the bodywork and it was not spotted by the marshalls. He was not pleased on many levels.

Last year I spoke to one of the" management" regarding the positioning of this flag stating that it could not be seen easily untill upon it. Apparently I don't know what I'm talking about and its been like that for years and there have been no complaints REALLY??..

Anyone with a modicum of common sense knows that the positioning of that flag is wrong. A modicum of common sense.mmmmmmmm Not that common in Wiltshire then.

 

[snowy]

Anyone with a modicum of common sense knows that the positioning of that flag is wrong. A modicum of common sense.mmmmmmmm Not that common in Wiltshire then.

Well, if your criteria for marshalling location is order so:

1) Burger van Access
2) Ability to chat to mates
3) Maybe have a gander at what's going on with the track

..

Someone has clearly sited those marshall booths with forethought to prevent corner pile-ups

So to then not use them, because you can't be ***** to walk over there ..

 

[Gazwould]

The mid corner location was also chosen because it's 4) closer to the bar to purchase pints of wife beater .

 

[superkarl]

The mid corner location was also chosen because it's 4) closer to the bar to purchase pints of wife beater .

Clearly many many brain cells were compromised that day

 

[badger5]

if i had to guess/speculate it would be an overall inadequate manning level for marshalls..

 

[bigal 1]

Even if that is so, they should deploy them in the best places. In this case there were two unmanned booths in the correct position for that bend. Unbelievable. That bend is a known area for spins. As previously mentioned what idiot decides to place a marshall AFTER the known trouble spot. I say again, unbelievable.

 

[Alex C]

i'd be tempted to air my misgivings on a more public forum than this given that they refused to hear you out on the day; ignorance and arrogance is never a good combo

 

[Prawn]

Did the lights come on at all for Red flashing?

They did Bill yes.

You are dead right on marshall numbers too, simply not enough for all points to be manned.

I'm unsure when exactly, but when going through the video frame by frame the lights do just appear to come on as the lights disappear to the very left of the screen around 1:17, but all though my approach and passing they were not lit. Approaching Camp there is no visible flash of them at all, although I'm told they were on.

I don't dispute that I was late to see the red flag, as the youtube video shows that was fairly clear, it's the numbers and positioning of the marshals that's so inadequate.

From looking at other footage online, the frequency of the flashing lights seems VERY slow, and both lights flash together, rather than alternating top and bottom, so it's 100% possible to stare at them for 1 second and not see them illuminated, even whilst 'On'

Still, I had a cracking day over all, and took loads of people out for a fairly hefty number of laps. the car felt good, and aside from a small clutch issue it ran hassle free all day.

Will add more detail when I have time

 

[badger5]

I will have to disagree with the not seeing flashing red lights flashing as they do indeed flash, and are sighted at approaches to all the major corners. They were slow to deploy them in your video, and very inadequate "pre corner" marshalling of the incidents led to the chaos which ensued.

the inadequate level of marshalling for the busyness of the day is the crux of the issue, with a dose of Jobs worth/attitude thrown in for good measure by "Mr Official". Clearly not coping well under the pressure of the day or something I dont know. Bad times either way. Charity rides lost out which sux because of their actions.

combe action days are legendary for all the wrong reasons

 

[Alex C]

in the video at 1:16 - "not being funny but why is there not a red flag here?"

 

[badger5]

post up your in car video prawny.. you have clipped the stills out of it, real time view from your perspective..

 

[bigal 1]

The guy in the blue clio nearly took the side of our car out. This was a direct result of inadequate and unprofessional behaviour on behalf of Castle Coombe staff. Irrespective of any disclaimers signed there IS a lawfull duty of care from the organisers. This was not exercised, so it could be argued that they could be held responsible for any damage. That would make for an interesting court case. I will back out now but as everyone will realise I am pretty cheesed off with these people who think they know everything and will not listen to other opinions from seasoned drivers. O A O.

 

[Madmax199]

Wow, I would seriously consider gathering all the evidence your have shown here and do a formal appeal on their decision. The number of cars allowed on track at once in a non-competition event is scary. That alone shows how unprofessionally the event was sanctioned (would not fly with most serious sanctioning bodies here in the US).

 

[badger5]

The guy in the blue clio nearly took the side of our car out. This was a direct result of inadequate and unprofessional behaviour on behalf of Castle Coombe staff. Irrespective of any disclaimers signed there IS a lawfull duty of care from the organisers. This was not exercised, so it could be argued that they could be held responsible for any damage. That would make for an interesting court case. I will back out now but as everyone will realise I am pretty cheesed off with these people who think they know everything and will not listen to other opinions from seasoned drivers. O A O.

The clio looked to nearly collected you as you lifted through camp having seen the red flag, and he clearly had'nt.. Close call.

 

[quattrokit]

HI Prawn, sorry to hear your day got wasted to$$ers! Yep that looks like a totally out of control shambles, not enough Marshalls and those there in the wrong place. There could have been any number of serious accidents there before he started waving his bloomers about, who was that? waving what? As said above I would put my case, using your in car footage together and take it to them, is that not what in car cameras are for, no your side of the story and mine any more, just this is what actually happened. They deffinitely need to pull their socks up before someone gets hurt, looks like quite a few of them were trying quite hard as well, miracle they didn't succeed.

 

[Gops]

Hi prawn, I just hope this post makes your thread 200 pages long

 

[Gops]

Ahhhh maybe not!

 

[Gops]

Back to topic, that was abit silly. The red flag wasn't visible at all.

 

[Gops]

Lies. I was actually hoping that post would be the one to take it to 200 hahahaha!!

Need to see your car in the flesh again dude I miss it! Interested in the catch can vacuum you've done though. If I've read right, you've vacuumed the exit pipe on the catch can back to the inlet manifold?

 

[Gops]

Last one I promise.. Did you get your stickers at the end?? Oh and you need to drive the beema dude! Flipping thing is pretty awesome!!

 

[Lavis89]

Stop spamming, I'm going to hit 200

Or maybe not... damnit. Hope this doesn't put you off castle combe in the future, just a shame they were such a knob about it when it was all for a good cause!

 

[Erikn89nl]

200 pages here we go!

*meh, not yet*

 

[Gops]

Hahaha everyone's on it now

 

[Prawn]

You guys are awesome

Unlike my clutch.....

 

[Prawn]

 

[<tuffty/>]

You guys are awesome

No they aren't... they are just chasing glory

<tuffty/>

 

[Prawn]

 

[Prawn]

 

[Prawn]

 

[Prawn]

EDIT: and that's how it's done

 

[Prawn]

It's a fix!

The honour was mine, then tuffty stole it :'(

 

[Prawn]

I was robbed!

 

[<tuffty/>]

I had my fun... all yours again

<tuffty/>

 

[Prawn]

On a serious note, my clutch really is smashed!!!