Brads A4 2.0 TQS build thread

gt30 turbine wheel, the 56mm one, in the internal wastegate housings is useless. Theyve never done any better than the gt28 turbines and only given more lag, same goes for .86 housings. The best T25 turbo you could get is one of the EFR series, but theyre ******* expensive and ****** huge. Otherwise its HTA2868 or GTX2867. Either,way you're on a log mani (i have the same) and that is your major drawback. I chose the 2867, was the best allrounder imo.
 
Its commonly accepted that the billet varients in the gtx range come into their own at higher pressures than the cast wheels.
whether that's true of the 67 over the cast 71 i cant remember, there's compressor maps in my build thread.
there's loads of compressor maps that show this.
but, most of the surge lines are over to the left in comparison also. Unfortunately there's mixed opinions on the response and spool times on the turbos.
 
you cant see the efficiency islands on the comp map of the 3071, so hard to compare.
regardless, most tuners will agree they come alive at higher pressures.
also, comp maps don't take into account the turbine side (housings) so they aren't the be all and end all.
 
0hp at 0psi.
its not on the road yet.

im quite realistic in that it will prob do 380hp at around 25psi, based off what most 2871 and 2867 have done that ive read about.

but im content in the fact that when i take my setup to the next level (tubular mani, external gate, v band and possible put a gt30 turbine wheel on it) it will be capable of quite alot more. Theoretically its capable of 470hp, and there's people out there getting that in various configurations.

T25 is a major limitation and its important to realise its limits which the OP should be aware of when choosing what he does.
 
Certainly sounds decent, when you consider that a 3071 on the T25 setup is also likely not to get much past 380hp, the same figure from a smaller turbo seems like a winning combination.

Like you say, the T25 housings and manifold become the restriction at this point.

The bit i really wonder about, is that given the restrictions, would 350hp from a GT2860RS not perhaps give a better end result? You've got 30hp less at the peak, but potentially an earlier spool and wider midrange torque band.

Infact the newer GTX2863 seems an even better choice, its 40lb wheel being able to flow very close to what the manifold/turbine etc can manage.

The 2860 is a 35lb turbo and should do more or less 350hp.
The 2863 seems to be a 40lb turbo, so might actually be the ultimate choice for a T25 setup.
The 2867 is a 47lb turbo as you point out, but that has its disadvantages in that you've now got the spool time and lag of a 470hp turbo but arent making 470hp.
 
aragorn said:
Certainly sounds decent, when you consider that a 3071 on the T25 setup is also likely not to get much past 380hp, the same figure from a smaller turbo seems like a winning combination.

Like you say, the T25 housings and manifold become the restriction at this point.

The bit i really wonder about, is that given the restrictions, would 350hp from a GT2860RS not perhaps give a better end result? You've got 30hp less at the peak, but potentially an earlier spool and wider midrange torque band.

Infact the newer GTX2863 seems an even better choice, its 40lb wheel being able to flow very close to what the manifold/turbine etc can manage.

The 2860 is a 35lb turbo and should do more or less 350hp.
The 2863 seems to be a 40lb turbo, so might actually be the ultimate choice for a T25 setup.
The 2867 is a 47lb turbo as you point out, but that has its disadvantages in that you've now got the spool time and lag of a 470hp turbo but arent making 470hp.
Click to expand...
this is a great point, and I suppose if the OP is sticking with the log T25 setup that would make sense to opt for the smaller 63mm.
but then if you get the larger turbo you have more potential there should you switch manifolds and wastegate setups, hence my personal choice.
I only built mine the way I did as it blew up and I had to rebuild unexpectedly with limited funds. The OP seems to have more planning into this, so I say sack the T25 manifold and go Tial V-band on a gt30 and then there is nothing to debate :racer:
 
Where will i get the vband T3 manifold from and also what might utilize my existing 3" vband downpipe setup and oil coolant lines ???
 
I think atp and pagparts do vband manifolds.
 
there's a v band version of what you have. That would be the easiest and cheapest option, retaining all the lines, and would prob just need the downpipe flange changing.
it would certainly be better than a T25 internal gate setup.
otherwise its pretty limited, think the pagparts is transverse only. TSR maybe.
in not all that familiar with logitudinal setups
 
ALL the exhaust parts you already have, are specific to T25. If you start down the T3 route, none of its going to be any use.
 
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Like the look of that PAG kit. Deciding which turbo would be a big decision.

Also would external wastegate be peoples first choice?

What flange is that on the cat to downpipe?

Guess if using that kit you will be talking around £2700 for a GTX turbo with the fuelling parts. Then will need a downpipe made, software and rods. So probably up to around £4000.
 
Broken Byzan said:
On a v band surley it makes no odds if longitudinal or transverse fitment
Click to expand...
Some people say, that if you use transverse v-band manifold, it will push the turbo out too much to the front and
you will struggle with intake. Not sure how much truth in it.
 
Well after long hard thinking im sticking with what i have, id of loved the full race T3 manifold but at around £800 plus import etc your talking £1000 then the 034 full race downpipe would be around £600, so im thinking of just going GTX2863 but going to do some research my 'set' goal is 380hp so need to way up best options id of liked the GTX3***-WG but think thats going to be on the lag side of things, as this is going to be a lonnggg build i will be building parts up first then when i find a runaround i will pull the engine (need to buy a folding crane and stand firstly) and remove subframes etc and start the refurb :)
 
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Well is been 11 months since i last posted in this thread and i am glad but also sad in away that the TQS did its last ever journey today its now officially off the road as the MOT has expired (needs to be sorn'd yet) and the time has come to make a start with the very long stroker build ive been planning, ive not really set a goal as too when it will be finished but lets just say fingers crossed it will become the car i dream of it being, at the minute im on two wheels powered by two legs lol but hopefully pick-up my new runabout on the 24th and its a VW Polo 6N2 1.4TDI so should be cheap to run compared to the B5 and i also have the two wheeler for the days im feeling up for cycling lol

Hopefully i will get a folding engine crane and a compressor pretty soon so i can pull the engine out and start the strip down oh and some shelving to store parts so theres some sort of organisation lol.

The last photo's i took of the old girl !
Image
 
Let me know if you want to borrow crane.
 
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Expanding on our conversation last year haha, my gtx2867 made 380hp and 360lbs at 1.8bar. T25 .64 housing.

What are your plans with the build?
 
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superkarl said:
Expanding on our conversation last year haha, my gtx2867 made 380hp and 360lbs at 1.8bar. T25 .64 housing.

What are your plans with the build?
Click to expand...
On 1.8t or stroked to 2.0?
 
No real plans at the minute yet karl just pull the engine when i source/buy a crane and try get the bottom end built and head then tackle the other bits but it wont be nothing quick im also going to try source bits for the ME7.5 conversion, those figures sound decent and i think i will go with the turbo you are using as i think i will be happy with that from my car whats the lag/spool like ??

Im still debating on wether to run the 1.8 n/a intake cam.
 
Bradderz_1988 said:
No real plans at the minute yet karl just pull the engine when i source/buy a crane and try get the bottom end built and head then tackle the other bits but it wont be nothing quick im also going to try source bits for the ME7.5 conversion, those figures sound decent and i think i will go with the turbo you are using as i think i will be happy with that from my car whats the lag/spool like ??

Im still debating on wether to run the 1.8 n/a intake cam.
Click to expand...
Lag is fine, it's nice below the boost threshold, drive able under 3k and returns high 30mpgs. Torque really shoots up at about 3200rpm, peaking at about 4k

Here's one of my dyno graphs:
f9cf473ac73027034322b7b21614fe29.jpg

It's more responsive on the road than the dyno suggests.
If you're in no rush with the build and want to do it right first time look at the pagparts kit, external waste gate so a turbo like mine would be singing
 
Ppt efr kit!! Me7 can control its boost controller - 2 less things to worry about. 3 if you count the iwg.
Gtx28xx still use the old ns111 turbine wheel. It's half a gtx unfortunately. Gtx30xx is a "full" gtx but probably too big for what you want.
 
Where'd you hear that? Some were canned and replaced. The 6758 was never produced in t3 nor t4 twinscroll housing. You can still get the 6258 and 6758. Check fullrace website for actual efr range and housing options. Pagparts website for the kit. Would be good if you could just buy the manifold.
If I was on the PC I'd grab links.
Ygpm brw!
 
Also, this site:

http://www.full-race.com/articles/borgwarner-efr-turbos.html

Shows the only EFR turbo that would actually suit Brads goals, is the 62/55, and i'm pretty sure they never actually built those. The smallest turbo is a 6258, which is rated to 450hp and is really too large for a tractable streetable 350-375hp engine.
 
A T25 6758 outspools T25 GT2860RS/2871R setup quite easily with much more torque and also peak hp.

Displacement was the same, maybe some other changes like larger plenum intake manifold were added later.
Follow this thread: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...come-sunshine-An-all-out-2liter-EFR6758-build
Unfortunately overlays and comparison pics expired. I don't like yank builds especially dyno numbers as much as you guys but at least the fella above is pretty much local :)
I think that particular turbo was initially offered 0.64A/R, it DID surge though - where the line was I don't remember. Later, after that build was completed and underway, BW brought out larger housings plus Vband. I don't think they actually do the TST4 at all for any B1 EFR even though it's listed here: http://www.full-race.com/store/turbos/borgwarner-efr/borgwarner-efr-6758-turbo.html

Actually I think the 6258 would be too small to crack 400 but it would be the best pick. The worst thing, it probably will hit the frame rail with that ATP manifold.
Just found this:

On the subject of manifolds, I actually prefer a direct side exit like you have, it's a shame our frame rail sits on the same plane though. It's the best design for spool & EGT management without going equal length tuned manifold.
The other sad thing about china manifolds (Spa, 034, kinetic, ATP cast crap) is the merge/collector design is non exist. Even our OEM merge is far superior.
All these manifolds crack if you don't brace them. You're guaranteed to crack them if you don't support the remainder of the exhaust either.

For any EFR turbo, learn some engine fundamentals in detail, do the math, substitute values into matchbot and see how you go.

Kev, I can't find it on his site either nor facebook page. One of the local guys here in Melbourne actually has the kit:
http://www.ozaudi.com/forums/a4-s4-rs4/46782-strangeloves-b5-efr-build-6.html
22208-strangeloves-b5-efr-build-2015-04-04-18.14.07.jpg


23498d1440937988-strangeloves-b5-efr-build-2015-08-30-17.53.06.jpg


23500d1440938755-strangeloves-b5-efr-build-2015-08-30-17.53.19.jpg
 
The new daily :)

Image


Just need a compressor and folding crane and axle stands sorted then i can start ripping in to the B5 !!
 
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