S3 or A5 ?

[musicegbdf]

OK I guess putting this in the A3/S3 section I might guess the answer !

The performance of the S3 is attractive , but the 2.0 TFSI Quattro is no slouch either . Adding some of the spec to the S3 as the same as the A5 the price is fairly similar.

The S3 has serious performance , but a bit of a boy racer image ( I live in essex).... The A5 is perhaps a little more subtle. (thinking of the Sportback on both).

I am not changing till end of the year ,early next year ( have a TDI 170 Quattro sport A3) so will have a good look around , will also have to look at the build times for both.

As to the technical side / any imminent changes would be interested on thoughts. Also which options are very important /should be avoided.

I would like parking sensors/Adaptive cruise control. Missus (who drives it more than me) does not like Auto box or Leather seat ., So would look at manual and Alcantara/Leather.

Not so bothered by sound system , have found the standard Audi pretty good already.

Colours , I was thinking of dark grey (gunmetal) pearl ...

Might have a look at the Jag XE , but not keen on boot only config as like hatches

 

[Sayam]

A5, 3.0TDi, Black Edition.

I have an A3 but it's not a mans car, the A5 is.

 

[pburv]

Had an A5 for month as a courtesy car it was a 2.0 tdi 170 automatic s line. I found it to be a lovely car to drive on the motorway and 'a' roads.If you do decide to go for an A5 I would strongly recommend you spec it with front and rear parking sensors (it,s a big car).I was glad I had my A3 back (missed the power)....

 

[Sayam]

Had an A5 for month as a courtesy car it was a 2.0 tdi 170 automatic s line. I found it to be a lovely car to drive on the motorway and 'a' roads.If you do decide to go for an A5 I would strongly recommend you spec it with front and rear parking sensors (it,s a big car).I was glad I had my A3 back (missed the power)....

I've driven a friends 2011 with the 170 diesel engine in a manual gearbox and found it under powered...the 3.0TDi quattro on the other hand...

 

[shadow1993]

I currently own an old A3 2.0TDI and i was thinking off upgrading to an S3 but i have decided against it and instead hope for a coupe A5 3.0TDI with B&O Sound, Pano roof, Sat Nav...

S3, fast, expensive insurance, bad Mpg
A5, Faster, insurance same as my 2.0tdi, great mpg, proper quattro

for me its a no brainer really.

 

[nluk100]

Had an A5 3.0 tdi mapped to 310ps (incl DPF removal) prior to my S3 and the S3 is so much more fun to drive. A5 felt heavy and didn't rev too well (being a diesel). Averaged about 35MPG in that which is better than my S3 at 30MPG, but I have way more fun.

 

[leshkin]

I faced the same choice last autumn and after many days thinking about it, decided to go with a S3 Sportback instead of A5 3.0TDI. S3 can be a ridiculously fast car with a few easy modifications and being a sportback it doesn't look that boy 'racerish'. Plenty of room for my wife and daughter, while being very fun for when I'm on my own. A5 is a great car, but after spending two years in an A4, with limited grunt, I just could not bring myself to go for the A5 option - there will be a time when I want somehting bigger, but then I'll probably go down the S5 route eventually if finances allow.

 

[_Zerocool_]

I currently own an old A3 2.0TDI and i was thinking off upgrading to an S3 but i have decided against it and instead hope for a coupe A5 3.0TDI with B&O Sound, Pano roof, Sat Nav...

S3, fast, expensive insurance, bad Mpg
A5, Faster, insurance same as my 2.0tdi, great mpg, proper quattro

for me its a no brainer really.

A diesel a5 is faster than an s3!?

 

[leshkin]

A diesel a5 is faster than an s3!?

No way is it faster - Parkers lists these figures for standard cars:

S3 Quattro Sportback (Technology) 5d S Tronic:
5.4 secs
155 mph
261 bhp

A5 3.0 TDI (245bhp) Quattro Black Ed (Nav) (5 Seat) 5d S Tronic
5.7 secs
155 mph
241 bhp

 

[Mike597]

No way is it faster - Parkers lists these figures for standard cars:

S3 Quattro Sportback (Technology) 5d S Tronic:
5.4 secs
155 mph
261 bhp

A5 3.0 TDI (245bhp) Quattro Black Ed (Nav) (5 Seat) 5d S Tronic
5.7 secs
155 mph
241 bhp

The A5 can be remapped up to nearly 300bhp though and with the additional torque it will certainly *feel* faster than the S3 I would say. The S3 can make roughly the same bhp but has 30% less torque. Torque is what gives you the sensation of picking up speed way more than outright bhp. It would be an interesting head-to-head on a track to see which was actually faster, I can totally believe the A5 could feel faster though. Also I'd imagine the A5 to have bigger tyres so more able to put the traction down and keep it there.

 

[S3Alex]

The A5 can be remapped up to nearly 300bhp though and with the additional torque it will certainly *feel* faster than the S3 I would say. The S3 can make roughly the same bhp but has 30% less torque. Torque is what gives you the sensation of picking up speed way more than outright bhp. It would be an interesting head-to-head on a track to see which was actually faster, I can totally believe the A5 could feel faster though. Also I'd imagine the A5 to have bigger tyres so more able to put the traction down and keep it there.

Torque does make an amazing impact on what you might think is the faster car in a particular battle,and of course it's torque that equates to acceleration,and bhp to maximum speed.

However when comparing mapped cars,it's important to compare like with like,and whilst the A5 can be remapped to 300bhp,and around 400lbs of torque if I remember,the S3 can be remapped to 360-380bhp,and around 380lbs,so that would be a closer comparison,which the S3 would likely win,due to it's lighter weight etc etc.

The A5 may have bigger tyres,and a Torsen type diff,but of course it will load it's tyres more with it's greater weight.

Anyway,back to business,when I remember being surprised a few yrs back by how close a BMW 530D was uphill,compared to my then 360bhp Sierra....that's torque.

I'm happy enough with around 460lbs,and 500bhp,but it's getting less easy to call it an S3 now!

 

[Mike597]

You could be right, I just looked at the revo stage 1 figures to get an idea, the S3 can apparently tune a lot higher, I have no direct experience on that. The point I was making is that it's very hard to compare different cars based on figures alone and the difference in performance characteristics between turbo petrol and turbo diesel makes the comparison even harder.
I have turbo petrol, turbo diesel and NA petrol in my stable, all with similar bhp but they all drive very differently. Even though the diesel - a mapped X5 - is a very heavy car, it puts the power down very easily - partly due to the massively wide wheels and consequential huge traction. As a result it feels pretty fast - in a straight line. **** round corners though Even though I know it's not quicker on paper than my either the A3 or my NA Porsche. The Porsche is easily the faster car but the NA power delivery creeps up on you in a way the torque-heavy turbo delivery doesn't.

Anyway point is, it's not clear cut.

 

[Mike597]

Totally off topic now...but I was on track with a TTRS a few years back and it was flying past me on the straights....but the driver offed it at nearly every corner or understeering heavily, such that I was tracking faster than he was. The point being power delivery is just one angle when it comes to getting from A to B quickly. To really make progress you need a good chassis, good traction and most of all a good driver.

 

[S3Alex]

You could be right, I just looked at the revo stage 1 figures to get an idea, the S3 can apparently tune a lot higher, I have no direct experience on that. The point I was making is that it's very hard to compare different cars based on figures alone and the difference in performance characteristics between turbo petrol and turbo diesel makes the comparison even harder.
I have turbo petrol, turbo diesel and NA petrol in my stable, all with similar bhp but they all drive very differently. Even though the diesel - a mapped X5 - is a very heavy car, it puts the power down very easily - partly due to the massively wide wheels and consequential huge traction. As a result it feels pretty fast - in a straight line. **** round corners though Even though I know it's not quicker on paper than my either the A3 or my NA Porsche. The Porsche is easily the faster car but the NA power delivery creeps up on you in a way the torque-heavy turbo delivery doesn't.

Anyway point is, it's not clear cut.

I think that's right.....but they're different engines(i.e. Diesel and petrol)although both turbos,but with very different strengths and weaknesses.

Like you,I've got both petrol and diesel turbo cars,,and have owned both types over many years......there's no comparison for the low down torque or economy of a diesel,or indeed for the sheer grunt of a good big turbo petrol engine.
Mine for instance turns out about 460lbs,but it needs around 4500rpm to hit the torque peak,whereas it's all over long before that for the diesel,and the petrol engine will top out at around 7500rpm,so both have a very decent usable rev range,but almost opposite ends of the rpm scale.

Currently the s3 engine,with the right hardware and software can hit 600-700bhp,but it's not a cheap remap sort of thing...

 

[leshkin]

The A5 can be remapped up to nearly 300bhp though and with the additional torque it will certainly *feel* faster than the S3 I would say. The S3 can make roughly the same bhp but has 30% less torque. Torque is what gives you the sensation of picking up speed way more than outright bhp. It would be an interesting head-to-head on a track to see which was actually faster, I can totally believe the A5 could feel faster though. Also I'd imagine the A5 to have bigger tyres so more able to put the traction down and keep it there.

I wasn't talking about mods, but as @S3Alex has already mentioned that, there is no point us discussing this further.

We should also note the weight difference of an A5, which is about 180kg heavier and also larger than the S3. While an A5 is not a slow car by any means, I really can't see how you could call it a faster car. Going up a very steep hill it might just have an advantage, but on anything that resebles your average A/B road and equaly competent drivers, I doubt that A5 would be the faster of the two.

 

[Scoot Yo]

S3 all day long, especially the sportback. The A5 will be worth next to nothing in a few years. Sportback S3 will always command a premium and will be half decent to drive.

 

[Mike597]

I wasn't talking about mods, but as @S3Alex has already mentioned that, there is no point us discussing this further.

We should also note the weight difference of an A5, which is about 180kg heavier and also larger than the S3. While an A5 is not a slow car by any means, I really can't see how you could call it a faster car. Going up a very steep hill it might just have an advantage, but on anything that resebles your average A/B road and equaly competent drivers, I doubt that A5 would be the faster of the two.

I don't know that 180kg is enough to be hugely significant, it's a passenger and a fuel tank of fuel, say For reference I've not stated anywhere that the A5 is the faster car. I've stated, in various different ways, that the comparison is very difficult and I could understand someone *feeling* that a large turbo diesel was quicker than a similarly powered petrol simply due to the low down torque in the diesel. I *know* my diesel is "slower" than either of my petrol cars but from 30-50 it packs a hell of a punch and possibly feels faster - probably isn't in reality.
To properly make progress on an A/B road you need to carry good speed through the corners so in reality it's more about the respective chassis and the lateral grip and to an extent the brakes. In that respect, if you really want to make progress you're probably better off investing your time and effort in some decent suspension upgrades and brakes upgrades than more power. But again, I'm diving off topic...

My guess is that on a decent B road blast with equally competent drivers and all other things being equal, with stock cars, keeping to mostly legal speeds, there would be very little between them, S3 have a slight edge but never able to pull away entirely. My guess.

 

[S3Alex]

I don't know that 180kg is enough to be hugely significant, it's a passenger and a fuel tank of fuel, .....
My guess is that on a decent B road blast with equally competent drivers and all other things being equal, with stock cars, keeping to mostly legal speeds, there would be very little between them, S3 have a slight edge but never able to pull away entirely. My guess.

180kgs is around 15% of the entire weight of the S3 and it does make a difference.....as an example,I took around 70kgs out of mine by removing the redundant rear seats,and it's easy to feel the difference that made,as it did improve power/weight for what it's worth,by about 5%.

i think that your other point about a legal speed blast is probably correct,but it would need a fairly committed driver to hustle the big diesel along B roads at a similar speed consistently to the lighter hatch.....I had an A4 3.0TDI Avant for a while,which was a lovely car in many ways,and pretty brisk,but you can feel the weight working against you when you begin to press on.

 

[shadow1993]

No way is it faster - Parkers lists these figures for standard cars:

S3 Quattro Sportback (Technology) 5d S Tronic:
5.4 secs
155 mph
261 bhp

A5 3.0 TDI (245bhp) Quattro Black Ed (Nav) (5 Seat) 5d S Tronic
5.7 secs
155 mph
241 bhp

I was comparing an S3 and an A5 in my price range... around £14k

S3 2009 5.7seconds, A5 3.0TDI 2008 5.9 seconds.. Still slower but im also looking at the cheap insurance and MPG factor

EDIT:
What i really meant was that for me it would make more sense to go for an A5..

 

[S3Alex]

I was comparing an S3 and an A5 in my price range... around £14k

S3 2009 5.7seconds, A5 3.0TDI 2008 5.9 seconds.. Still slower but im also looking at the cheap insurance and MPG factor

You'd hardly notice the 0-60 difference,but the A5 will go further for sure,but maybe not as much as you'd think.

I never got much more than 35mpg out of my A4,but it's a smooth easy drive,and doesn't need to be stirred up.

 

[Mike597]

180kgs is around 15% of the entire weight of the S3 and it does make a difference.....as an example,I took around 70kgs out of mine by removing the redundant rear seats,and it's easy to feel the difference that made,as it did improve power/weight for what it's worth,by about 5%.

i think that your other point about a legal speed blast is probably correct,but it would need a fairly committed driver to hustle the big diesel along B roads at a similar speed consistently to the lighter hatch.....I had an A4 3.0TDI Avant for a while,which was a lovely car in many ways,and pretty brisk,but you can feel the weight working against you when you begin to press on.

I think we're basically on the same page. The s3 would have an edge in most circumstances but it wouldn't be a huge advantage.
Even with a massively more powerful and capable car it's not easy to pull away from anything remotely warm these days at legal ish speeds. I remember a while back having a bit of fun with a Cooper s (not even a jcw) on a bendy dual carriageway near me. I was driving the porker and whilst I was obviously quicker it wasn't by much and the difference only really became apparent when you stretch up in to licence losing territory.
I'm no driving God.


I think the choice of car really comes down to which size is more appropriate for the OP . Also to an extent which image as they do have quite different images.

 

[musicegbdf]

thanks the interesting comments. I am going away from diesel due to too many short journeys, though admit to liking the torque.
I am tempted by the power of the S3 and the fact it is up to date technology. However, I am also tempted by "comfort" as not sure all that power is usable in the real world without amassing points on the licence.
I saw an interesting comment about resale and the S3 having better residuals. Off to local dealer tomorrow to nose around

 

[pburv]

Good luck with your search...I would still strongly recommend front and rear parking sensors for the A5. ps let us all know how you get on....Paul

 

[leshkin]

Rear parking sensors on a A/S3 Sportback come in pretty handy too - I never realised how much of a convenience they are until I got a car with them

 

[pburv]

Yep I know what you mean.. The other half has a Seat FR with front and rear sensors. After driving it I have to remember I don,t have the front sensors on my car LOL

 

[musicegbdf]

Mmm, ok the A5 is nice and they are cutting the price a lot... New one coming?
Anyway seemed like a reverse Tardis
Big outside and small inside.
Went to two dealerships and no S3 to look at. Though had a look in the Electron thing. The missus liked the Electron..... Much sulking later she said "Oh get what you want".
Went to look at the golf R to compare.
Big mistake she loved the Beetle .
Need to sit and compare the S3 and the R , though the S3 wins on style, just want to check the spec...

 

[pburv]

Mmm, ok the A5 is nice and they are cutting the price a lot... New one coming?
Anyway seemed like a reverse Tardis
Big outside and small inside.
Went to two dealerships and no S3 to look at. Though had a look in the Electron thing. The missus liked the Electron..... Much sulking later she said "Oh get what you want".
Went to look at the golf R to compare.
Big mistake she loved the Beetle .
Need to sit and compare the S3 and the R , though the S3 wins on style, just want to check the spec...

Decisions decisions You lucky man

 

[XFi]

A new A5 is coming yes, if it's anything like the A4 then it will be the same 7-8 year cycle.

I haven't driven the A5 but it's on my shortlist of cars as I'll shortly be commuting 50+ miles a day. Sounds like to me you are wanting a more GT cruiser type car if you are saying about he Jaguar as well. The A5 3.0TDIwith DPF delete, exhaust and remap goes well and they sounds awesome for a diesel!

Personally I couldn't bring myself to change from what you have to an S3, it'll be just like sitting in the same car for most of the time but a lot less MPG.

 

[musicegbdf]

interesting point.
though have to say I like the A3 ,size wise. Parking seems such a lot of hassle with parking bays ao small.
we do a lot of short journeys so want petrol to avoid dpf issues.
I had a feeling there was something going in with the A5. There was a walk in discount from Audi of 7k., and a lot of goodies for free.
have plenty if time so will keep look