TDI Timing VCDS "please wait until the injection is retarded"

[Rudidudi]

Any ideas what may be causing this?

Its an AKE

The engine is noisy and I discovered that the fuel injection pump tensioner had come loose and the belt had slipped a tooth.

I adjusted this with crank at tdc and FIP locked with dowel, which seems to show the belt had slipped whilst the tensioner was loose. Below is a picture of the belt position after it was timed up with the dowel. The white marks show the relative positions of the FIP vernier on the cam pulley (they were originally lined up).

Having run the TDI graphI am not sure why the reading shows "please wait until the injection is retarded" for most of the time. Video below:-



Any views welcomed!

 

[Alan Gunn]

Why are you running an old version of vcds.
My car runs at BTDC all the time 14 or 18 can't remember but will look if you want.

 

[Rudidudi]

Was tethering on phone for internet. Will update, maybe the old version was causing the graph to plot incorrectly?

Any info you can provide would be helpful.

Im at a bit of a loss as to what to do or check next... Ill check some measuring blocks but not sure what to look for...

 

[Rudidudi]

any other ideas folks?

 

[dal0037]

New injection pump belt in case it has stretched out of proper length...?

 

[Rudidudi]

its a new belt, contitech, only fitted 3000 miles ago...

ill record the sound, it isnt good

any ideas welcomed

 

[Rudidudi]

any ideas or help guys?

 

[desertstorm]

Try dropping a PM to Chris Adams @adamss24 he is a bit of a genius on these engines.

Karl.

 

[adamss24]

The pump sprocket is adjustable, if the engine starts then you're not far off ! I would say to slacken the 3 bolts and move the sprocket clockwise or or anticlockwise and see if it feels any better...

 

[Rudidudi]

Thanks, will give it a go and report back...!

It idles ok, but load. Also, there is a clattery noise, similar to tappets. Thing is that the clattery noise isnt there all the time. I'll adjust and see what happens!

 

[TYphoon GB]

Advance gear shot on the pump would be my vote....

 

[Rudidudi]

Advance gear shot on the pump would be my vote....

Thing is that the issue started and I discovered that the FIP belt tensioner had come loose and from what I could tell the belt had skipped a tooth. Im guessing that a tooth had been skipped because the belt position with just re-tensioning the pulley resulted in the cam vernier pully bolts being right at the end of the slots. Moving the belt one tooth means that the vernier bolts are now mid slot on the pulley. Interestingly the engine runs now and it also did previously. Both were noisy, perhaps now a little less but it is still loud, and at times clattery.

Im going to check the cam belt timing too, just in case the jumped FIP belt also happened at the same time as a cam belt slippage. I would have expected that if the cam belt was out a tooth that it wouldnt run or be smokey etc, but not sure. Can anyone confirm?

 

[TYphoon GB]

Setting to the mid point for static timing is right from the manual. Then its very very small movements to set the dynamic timing (used a jewelers screw driver as a pry in the end) and a right pain in the **** checking setting running setting again etc. Seen people setting by ear indicating experience counts.
The graph error suggests to me you have two problems loose tensioner and advance gear in the pump.
How a tensioner comes loose would be my first question....
Anyway if you can't set the dynamic timing at small changes I think you come back to the pump.
How did the cam belt check go?

 

[Rudidudi]

Hi again.

I havent managed to check the cam timing, will do this weekend if the weather holds.

I pulled off the two top cambelt covers and adjusted the timing a bit. Interesting results.

Moving the FIP pulley anti clockwise (with the vernier lose) just a little resulted in the engine failing to start.
Rotating the FIP pulley clockwise reduced the noise considerably. I continued until the three bolts on the vernier were at the end of their travel, which gave the least noise.

The TDI graph showed "timing out of spec too advanced", with 8 degrees. At least it is consistent now. The engine ran smoother and less noisy (but still noisy).



I'll carry on at the weekend and try and move the belt and get it close to the end of the nearest slot and we can see what happens, but i'll want to pull the front end forward and check the cam timing for that.

The investigation continues!

 

[TYphoon GB]

That sounds encouraging. It's a noisy old block anyway.

 

[Rudidudi]

really odd, looked at it today and, without having touched anything, the TDI graph is bouncing again. I'm going to have a fiddle with the timing again and report back. I'll take some screen grabs over the weekend.

 

[Rudidudi]

this is where i got to so far...

The video is really loud for some reason! The sound is difficult to decipher on the video but it was less rattly when the timing was in spec.



Is there any way I can check to see the cause of this?

As you can see the timing keeps changing. Odd as the other day it stayed in one place (it was at 8 degrees advanced)



The tensioner seems to be sprung and jiggles. Is this normal?

Some wear on the cams, but the lobes were smooth and not with chunks missing...

It drives ok, just loud. Everyone is telling me that the 2.5 is a loud engine, but I dont recall it being this loud.

I will order up the tools to check the cam timing, i didnt have enough time this weekend.

Any new other ideas?

 

[TYphoon GB]

Has it thrown any more codes?
If your near Hampshire I could lend my timing tool set out...

 

[Peter Donnelly]

any joy with sorting this??.....ive just had the same with my aym engine....about 500 miles after a cambelt change

 

[Rudidudi]

just reduced it by adjusting the timing.
i started it up after a period of not starting and the rattling was really bad. it settled a but on idle once it ran for a bit. i wonder it relates to the timing adjustment...?

 

[Rudidudi]

any joy with sorting this??.....ive just had the same with my aym engine....about 500 miles after a cambelt change

did you make any findings?