H&R lowering springs and Bilstein B8 dampers dissapointed with ride! Issues?

[plasma]

I've finally taken the plunge and had the H&R lowering springs (35mm all round) and Bilstein B8 shocks fitted to my 2006 Audi A3 SE 2.0 TDI. Eurocarparts had an amazing offer (10% off) so I had the 2 front Bilstein B8 shocks for £244 and the H&R lowering springs for £151. Unfortunately the rear Bilstein B8's were out of stock so will order them in a few weeks and have them installed too.

Installation Issues:

• The instruction leaflet for the shocks say not to use an impact tool for the tightening of a nut? I think the mechanic did use an impact tool, does this mean my shocks are damage? How will I know?
• Also, seeing that I've only fitted the front 2 shocks, the mechanic took out what looks like a yellow rubber mount? He said it's used to damp the OEM shock but he cannot use it for the Bilstein B8's? Does this sound correct? So basically I have them removed.
• I have not got the wheel alignment yet. I've read online that I should wait it out a couple of weeks and do the alignment once it has all settled. However the car still drives in a straight line!

Looks:

Considering I've only been fitted for like 3 hours now since I've left the garage, I've noticed the rears are lower than the front? I found this odd because with the OEM setup the front was a slightly lower than the rear and so with the 355mm all round drop I'd expect the front to look a lad lower? Do I need to give it a little time for it to settle in and eventually the front will drop?

Or does it look like this because the rears are OEM shocks and the front Bilstein shocks?

Review:

I was eagerly waiting and excited to for the mechanic to finish the job so I could drive home with the new set-up. As I drove home from the garage here i my assessment of what I think it belt like:

1. I should add that I also swapped out the OEM 16 inch alloys to the 18 inch S Line alloys. I was expected a harder ride but to my surprise it actually felt smoother! Felt a little more composed too especially at higher/motorway speeds
   
2. One area that I thought the Bilstein B8 and H&R springs will shine is handling. I've read numerous reviews on-line saying how the H&R springs eliminate body roll but this was not true in my experience. Yes, body roll has gone a little bit from my OEM SE suspension but its not a major night and day transformation as others suggest. I'm actually quite disappointed. I took a round about turn today (it was raining a little so wet road) and even with the 225 Continental tyres with 5mm tread the car lost traction and under steered and aquaplaned! It still has nearly the same handling characteristics as when I had the 205 wide 16 inch alloys with OEM suspension and crappy Autoguard tyres. I mean maybe it like 10-15% better but still, not much of a difference!

Conclusion

Car looks must better with the lowered stance and 18 inch wheels but I'm overall quite dissapointed. I know I still haven't got the rear shocks replaced but still this can't make a huge difference can it? Does it still have body roll because I haven't got it aligned?

 

[mx_rab]

Not having the rears fitted will be playing havoc with the geometry. No wonder it feels worse. You will have squidgy old shocks mixed with nice new stiff performance shocks. Not a good mix.

 

[mechanic69]

mechanic was right on the yellow bum stops you don't need them. the springs won't do much for body roll as they are similar to the stock springs just shorter. you need uprated anti roll bars for that. get the rears done soon

 

[plasma]

mechanic was right on the yellow bum stops you don't need them. the springs won't do much for body roll as they are similar to the stock springs just shorter. you need uprated anti roll bars for that. get the rears done soon

Okay great. When do you suggest I get the wheel alignment done? I'm ordering the rear Bilstein B8 shocks today from Eurocarparts (last day for 10% off!) so I hope to fit them in the next 2 weeks.

Also, why is my rear lower than my front?

Can you suggest a good anti roll bar?

 

[mechanic69]

Okay great. When do you suggest I get the wheel alignment done? I'm ordering the rear Bilstein B8 shocks today from Eurocarparts (last day for 10% off!) so I hope to fit them in the next 2 weeks.

Also, why is my rear lower than my front?

Can you suggest a good anti roll bar?

It doesn't take the car too long to settle in, give it 50 miles or so, you don't want to wreck the tyres.

My s3 front was higher than the rear so when I ordered lowering springs they only supply the fronts. Not sure about your model though.

I would get H&R ARBs, they about 350 for the pair get the 26mm rear bar set if you can, but just getting the rear done will help a lot. I've only fitted the rear so far it really gets the handling sorted. Much less role.

 

[s3_trev]

Good advice above. I would also like to point out that you have went up, not 1 but 2 sizes of wheels! That will have less than desirable affect on handling / performance.

 

[plasma]

Mechanic69, I thought the H&R springs will help with the body roll? I've read numerous online reviews stating that it should. They are shorter but also should be stiffer and hence reduce body roll?

 

[plasma]

Good advice above. I would also like to point out that you have went up, not 1 but 2 sizes of wheels! That will have less than desirable affect on handling / performance.

Do you mean the larger alloys and wider tyres should have a positive effect on handling/performance?

Had a drive today and the body roll has definately improved from OEM but I'm not sure if it's the larger tyres or the H&R springs?

 

[s3_trev]

No. Going up 2 wheel sizes will NOT be good for anythin other than looks. Generally a bigger wheel is heavier as well. A wider wheel can improve cornering a bit but in this case it's over shadowed by the hit you will get from the bigger wheels and lower profile tyres.

 

[s3_trev]

You are bound to have noticed your steering heaver and a slower 0 to 60 time ?

 

[S3Alex]

All of the above is very good advice.

Doing half of the suspension at a time,for any reason,is going to give bad results.

The ARB's are one of the biggest improvements you can make to this car,along with coilovers all round,and once it's all fitted and set up properly,it will feel much better.

Right now you've basically got the 2 ends of the car fighting each other.

 

[24JSeymour]

The rear shocks being standard will have different dampening and rebound settings to the front, probably will be a softer shock so the weight of the car will be making it sit lower, once you get the stiffer rear shocks on it should look and feel alot more balanced

 

[plasma]

You are bound to have noticed your steering heaver and a slower 0 to 60 time ?

My steering actually feels the same. Haven't any noticed a tangible 0-60 issues. I know the 18 inch S line were a few kg's heavier per wheel compared to the 16 inches so there probably is a small performance loss but nothing noticeable.

 

[plasma]

My next upgrade will definitely be the H&R ARBs. Can anyone please tell me how long it typically takes to install the ARB's so I have a rough estimated cost from the garage?

 

[s3_trev]

The front one takes much longer than the back as you need to drop the subframe. So probably front and back you are maybe looking about 4-5hrs work or so. Thats just a guess.

 

[plasma]

In that case, I'll probably just get the rear H&R ARB

 

[plasma]

One more thing, I noticed the Bilstein B8 came with an instruction sheet that specifically stated not to use an impact tool to tighten the top nut of the shock. it also had torque tightening values. The mechanic didn't look at this leaflet at all and used an impact tool.

How can I know if my dampers are damaged? It rides all OK so does this mean its okay?

 

[24JSeymour]

Theres currently a group buy on the forum for the H&R anti roll bars, big saving over RRP for the front and rear bars once 10 people put there name down, hopefully will be closing mid july so thats a good chance for you to buy discounted arb's

 

[plasma]

Also, can someone please tell me whether my mechanic is charging me a fair price?

We originally agreed on £140 for him to change all four springs and dampers. Because I couldn't get the rear dampers he only changed the springs and front dampers and still charged me £140. I then asked how much it would be for him to change the 2 rear dampers when I get them and he said £60.

So in total his charging me £200 to replace all springs and shocks. Am I being charged too much? I think his ripping me off.

 

[24JSeymour]

£40-£50 per corner is the standard going rate at a standard back street garage round here, you might find a specialist to be cheaper, seems expensive to me as i do it myself haha

 

[mechanic69]

The front one takes much longer than the back as you need to drop the subframe. So probably front and back you are maybe looking about 4-5hrs work or so. Thats just a guess.

I would agree, rear is easy less than an hour and the front shouldn't take more than 3

 

[plasma]

UPDATE:

Okay, my car went in for a retest MOT yesterday and I have a new advisory item (that was not present in the first, which failed for crack springs hence why I upgraded to H&R and Bilstein) stating "nearside front anti-roll bar linkage ball joint dust cover damaged but preventing ingress of dirt." The MOT tester said that whoever fitted the shocks and springs are responsible for this.

I am worried, because I went to a back street garage and this mechanic had ZERO knowledge on lowering springs and Bilstein B8 shocks and I'm worried he may have over tightened the top but for the shocks as he used an impact tool and could have damaged my new shocks!

I feel stupid, I spent so much on these Bisletin B8 shocks I should have gone to a specialised tuning garage.
My plan now is to go to a specialised garage like AMD tuning and get them to fit the rear Bilstein shocks and also to check/adjust the front shocks and springs that is already fitted. And get a 4 wheel alignment.

Shall I go back to this back street garage and demand some sort of compensation for the damaged he caused?

 

[plasma]

I'm stressing so much, somebody needs to help me!

 

[24JSeymour]

I cant see using an impact tool on the top nut causing any damage as long as the threads have not stripped, the MOT advisory is just a little rubber boot over the ball joint in your link rod that keeps grease/lubricant in the joint to stop dirt getting in and drying it out, aslong as it is still sealed and not split open i wouldn't worry about it, the rear shocks and springs are alot easier than the fronts, anyone mechanically minded cant go far wrong

 

[plasma]

I cant see using an impact tool on the top nut causing any damage as long as the threads have not stripped, the MOT advisory is just a little rubber boot over the ball joint in your link rod that keeps grease/lubricant in the joint to stop dirt getting in and drying it out, aslong as it is still sealed and not split open i wouldn't worry about it, the rear shocks and springs are alot easier than the fronts, anyone mechanically minded cant go far wrong

I'm not mechanically inclined but the instruction sheet did state that an impact tool should not be used to prevent valve damage. It also had specific torque tightening values that the mechanic ignored completely.

 

[24JSeymour]

Oh then in that case best bet is to go to a specialist and get it checked out, then if they are damaged pay the backstreet garage a visit and let him know see if he is willing to refund labour charges or something

 

[Sayam]

I am worried, because I went to a back street garage and this mechanic had ZERO knowledge on lowering springs and Bilstein B8 shocks

There is a lesson for life there...

I'd go to AMD and have them check the fitting of the front springs and shocks, and get them to fit the rears. Assuming all is OK with the front get them to do the 4-wheel alignment.

If there is something wrong with the fronts then have AMD fix it and go see the other guy and ask him to refund the costs.

 

[plasma]

I'm going to book it at a garage called Audi VW Specialist Centre (www.audivwsc.co.uk) They have links with AMD tuning. The garage is in Harrow and is closer to my house.

Does anyone have any experience with this garage? Do they do tuning and will know what to do when they look at my car?

 

[smurfworth]

I'm not mechanically inclined but the instruction sheet did state that an impact tool should not be used to prevent valve damage. It also had specific torque tightening values that the mechanic ignored completely.

Done all my suspension changes with an impact, don't worry about it. It's only bilstein covering themselves in the event someone goes mad with the impact gun and strips the threads on the shocks.

 

[plasma]

Done all my suspension changes with an impact, don't worry about it. It's only bilstein covering themselves in the event someone goes mad with the impact gun and strips the threads on the shocks.

Well, I hope that's the case. What worries me more about the backstreet garage I used is the fact that he didn't tell me that he damaged the anti-roll bar dust cover. I've texted him yesterday evening and he hasn't replied. Poor customer service and definitely won't be going back there. His charging £60 to fit the rear shocks. Audi VW specialists are charging £108 for a 4 wheel alignment and another £108 inc VAT to fit rear shocks and inspect the front ones. Shall I just go ahead with this?

 

[plasma]

UPDATE:

Okay so I finally received a reply from the mechanic who I believe must have damaged the drop links whilst fitting the springs and front shocks which resulted in the MOT advisory "nearside front anti-roll bar linkage ball joint dust cover damaged but preventing ingress of dirt." He says he is surprised the MOT are picking up such a minor issue. He hasn't suggested a resolution but has suggested that I replace both drop links. I am presuming he should offer free labour as he is responsible for damaging the old drop links? Are the drop links easily damaged whilst changing springs/shocks or am I being unreasonable to expect him to do free labour?

Also, now that my car is lowered would it be worthwhile I invest in some shortened drop links? Any suggestions?

 

[smurfworth]

Well, I hope that's the case. What worries me more about the backstreet garage I used is the fact that he didn't tell me that he damaged the anti-roll bar dust cover. I've texted him yesterday evening and he hasn't replied. Poor customer service and definitely won't be going back there. His charging £60 to fit the rear shocks. Audi VW specialists are charging £108 for a 4 wheel alignment and another £108 inc VAT to fit rear shocks and inspect the front ones. Shall I just go ahead with this?

Tbh it's easy to miss the fact that he may have damaged it. It's not very big and not really something you check when doing that sort of job. Rubber perishes over time and all it takes is to move it to a position it's not been used to and as a result it will tear the rubber.

I wouldn't bother replacing if it's only an advisory

 

[mechanic69]

Don't worry about the impact wrench, if it was wrong the top mount thread would be stripped and the shock loose, if it passed an mot then this isn't the case. Would get a specialist to fit the arbs if your not confident to do it and get the drop links upgrade at the same time solve the problem, I'd leave the back street garage alone.

 

[s3_trev]

Sorry to hear your troubles mate. Me personally, Id be taking it to a specialist and paying them to leave your car right, and that includes fixing the advisory. Its an advisory for a reason at the end of the day, no matter how minor. Id also be having a serious discussion with your previous mechanic to come to some kind of financial reimbursement.

 

[37]

I'm going to book it at a garage called Audi VW Specialist Centre (www.audivwsc.co.uk) They have links with AMD tuning. The garage is in Harrow and is closer to my house.

They are the best garage I've been to in a long while. I took my car there for a free inspection check when I bought it and never looked else where since. Even Audi send them cars to fix!

In short, they know their stuff and won't rip you off.

 

[plasma]

Tbh it's easy to miss the fact that he may have damaged it. It's not very big and not really something you check when doing that sort of job. Rubber perishes over time and all it takes is to move it to a position it's not been used to and as a result it will tear the rubber.

I wouldn't bother replacing if it's only an advisory

Don't worry about the impact wrench, if it was wrong the top mount thread would be stripped and the shock loose, if it passed an mot then this isn't the case. Would get a specialist to fit the arbs if your not confident to do it and get the drop links upgrade at the same time solve the problem, I'd leave the back street garage alone.

Not sure here, getting conflicting advise. Should I expect the mechanic to replace the damaged drop links free of charge as reimbursement? Is that fair?

 

[smurfworth]

Not sure here, getting conflicting advise. Should I expect the mechanic to replace the damaged drop links free of charge as reimbursement? Is that fair?

I wouldn't "expect" to, he could for all you know turn around and say it was like it before and prove the fact he damaged it while doing the work.

How can you prove it exactly, because another person said it was likely damaged while the work was being done?

It's your word against his.. So no I wouldn't "expect" anything, but it doesn't stop you negotiating with him to see if you could possibly get it done free of labour.

 

[plasma]

UPDATE:

Taken the car to VW Audi Specialists in Harrow for the rear shock absorber fitting, 4 wheel laser alignment and inspection. Outcome is that everything is fine! Have to say I'm impressed by the garage, they certainly know their stuff and a guy called Chris told me about uprated poly bushes and parts from the Golf R32 that could be fitted to my car.

Car now corners like a F1 racing car with no understeer!!

 

[RafaelF]

UPDATE:

Taken the car to VW Audi Specialists in Harrow for the rear shock absorber fitting, 4 wheel laser alignment and inspection. Outcome is that everything is fine! Have to say I'm impressed by the garage, they certainly know their stuff and a guy called Chris told me about uprated poly bushes and parts from the Golf R32 that could be fitted to my car.

Car now corners like a F1 racing car with no understeer!!

I' thinking about b8 shocks too, to match with eibach sportline springs... and arbs to my tdi, which one is better H&R or Eibachs arbs?
handling in stock mode is so crap in a A3/s3

 

[plasma]

Do you know what, my girlfriend has a mk1 Toyota Yaris petrol and I've fitted some lowering springs to that and its 10 times more fun to drive than my car!!!