Any idea what has happened to my car ?

[solowkey]

I dont know if its the blood moon or just my bad luck but this has been a terrible week for me , and on the way to try and resolve another major issue, with my partner sat next to me who is due it 2 days, the car suddenly sounds like its going to blow up or something

2007 07 Audi A3 2.0.tdi sline quattro
55k
FASH, last serviced at stratford audi 2 months
previous owned my a guy whose brother worked for strat audi , everything was done there , even tires, i have all receipts etc


I have been driving very slowly as where i live is covered in those huge speed bumps, which even at low speed do not agree with a heavily pregnant woman, i pulled to a gentle stop at traffic lights on a hill facing up , put on handbrake

all of a sudden a terrible load clicking clanking sound started to come from the front of the car, sounds like tractor but worse , so i turned off engine (having had experience with limp mode on older audi) try to start again resetting it, same thing straight away ,

the engine seemed to rev ok , it was as if the noise was independent from the operation of the engine, as the intensity didn't change as i put my foot down on the accelerator or the clutch,

i pulled it just around the corner straight off the road, gave it a few minutes tried it again same thing,

so i made arrangements to get partner home, and called the aa , when they turned up i explained he asked me to try it , but immediately said turn it off , i'll call a truck, and that was pretty much it, he seemed a good guy , his only inkling was injectors which didn't make sense to me, although his logic of not running it in case further damage was being caused did .

I didnt want to go straight to audi , so im having a friend of my fathers business (audi guy) look at it as a first pass while i try to find a direction to look in.



I have done alot of research , but i cannot find anything like it , nothing seems to fit the symptoms

I have read about the injector recall on these models, slight glimmer of hope , but calling audi, this was done in 2012 + failures relating to this seem to be the engines dying , nothing like this.


only things that seem in someway similar are the engine bearings or dual mass flywheel failures (but clutch makes no different to the noise)

My technical knowledge of cars is pretty limited though so i doubt im going to make a good guess, can anyone help point me in the right direction ?


So disappointing i bought this to be a solid reliable car for the pregnancy and baby requirements, its let me down at literally the worse possible time, let hope she doesn't do something stupid like have a baby ha ha - well actually i have a borrowed another car already as i cannot be without one at this stage - but its still really critical to diagnose this and at least put a price on it for me,

tbh i'm devastated and anxious to find out how much this is going to cost me, worse case i guess is a new engine which will be thousands, i just want to know without paying for a long list of jobs as they try to work out what it is

i had an episode with a non starting Honda that went through £1800 of repairs in a couple of weeks then finally working, couple of months later completely died again, aa job , no one had any ideas , i never fixed it , scrapped it - i have visions of a similar outcome, mixed with tears of blood.

Obviously any advice will be very much appreciated

Happy days



note - forgot to mention as its pretty much a constant , dpf light was on at the time , it comes on regularly i understand it and know if need to give it a good run to kick off the regen, this had been on for a couple weeks as i had only driven to the supermarket and diy shop a couple of times, we were on the way to another town and i was going to take the opportunity to clear it again, sadly didnt get that far - which is maybe just as well as the last time i went out of my way to do this, i pipped 80 on the dual carriage way and got stung by a copper on the bridge £100/3points thanks you very much.

 

[solowkey]

car is a sport back btw , and sorry post is so long, im like an old woman ha ha

 

[Sayam]

Is there any oil in it?

 

[solowkey]

lol, thanks for the reply.

Yes i believe all was fine, it was recently serviced including oil change at Audi , no oil lights and not noticed and evidence of loss.

This was of course the first thing the AA guy asked, i told him the above , he checked anyway but didn't see any issue.

I guess if it was loosing oil , engine noise would change gradually not the sudden change i experienced.


i still have no idea

 

[Sayam]

Have you taken it to your local mechanic or whoever you've used in the past and trust?

If it wasn't the engine making that noise it could have been anything that spins. Fans, alternator, idlers, a/c compressor pulley...needs investigating properly.

 

[solowkey]

yeah its being arranged, unfortunately they aren't free today and i wanted to avoid audi at the first instance

it sounded like the engine but the behavior suggested otherwise , strangest problem i have had.

 

[Sayam]

Plz do let us know what they say, and any other advice members can offer I'm sure they will

 

[solowkey]

Well just updating with latest if had, pretty much no movement so far due to garages not having time . It has been looked at by a trusted audi specialist , and they believe there is no compression in one of the cylinders, they also think this maybe the cause of the far to regular dpf light that comes on.

I dont know car engines so im not sure whats happening , but logically this doesn't make sense , the dpf problem has been ongoing but this issue came on suddenly, anyway its there area of expertise so i need to trust them

Hopefully i will get a price and just get it done this week, i have already decided im selling it and getting a lease instead i just can live in fear of crap like this every year , even when i managed to get a car that had such good history and low mileage, it was still no good , i couldn't have hoped for a better example to be honest so it seems there is no hope.

Just got to wait and find out the damage now, im not sure what will actually need replacing as i have not found a similar instance of this happening normally 'no compression' threads have a no starting problem , mine starts but just the clanking noise , which i haven't found many reports of, from my understanding this will be the piston hitting the exhaust outlet valve due to it not closing , due to this dpf crap clogging things up ,

What fun , luckily i have been far too busy with work to worry , and had another car to use (well in fact , ive got through 2 now , the 08 golf gt sport also had problems, and now i'm on a 10 16. blue motion that im scared is going to die too before i get the quattro back).

Its been over a month, i have had a child in this time, i just want to get it back and get rid of it before i have another problem

I think this will be my final straw with car ownership ;'(

 

[RS3dan]

Wish I could suggest anything for you, gutted for you to be honest as I know how nerve racking these non description noises can be! Could be several things.. Hope you get it sorted for as little as possible!

 

[enc]

Gutted , hope it doesn't work out too expensive dude !

 

[Jake 61]

Congratulations on the new addition to the family, but, sympathies go out to you with the car.
As above, I hope this doesn't cost too much with your priorities as they now are.

 

[Carefree69]

Horror stories like this is exactly why I took out a third party warranty on my used Audi, having previously bought brand new. i recently had to claim for a new thermostat and they paid out immediately with no questions.

My next car will probably be brand new again but IF i decide to go used i will definately get another warranty.

Hope its not too expensive mate.

 

[solowkey]

Many thanks for the good wishes guys , but today was judgement day and i didn't fare well.

The problem was the actuator rod from the inlet manifold snapped off at the end and got sucked into the 4th cylinder destroyed all the insides and head etc , so im looking for a new engine now, or possible rebuilt , im waiting to hear if it is possible or economical at all.


Just thought i would add the correct diagnosis to the thread for you , just going to cry in the corner now

I have some pictures on the way , i'll post them when i have them and I'll let you know of any developments

 

[enc]

jeez, gutted mate :-(

 

[Gazwould]

Ouch .

 

[Jake 61]

Bad one...!

 

[mx_rab]

That sounds like my worst nightmare mate. Can you explain what exactly happened? Maybe when you put the pics up I'll understand a bit better.

 

[dk1234]

I was thinking of buying a car of around that age, this kind of story gives me second thoughts, as this is what I fear too. Maybe it's time for a lease or buying a newer vehicle of a different brand. VAG ain't built like they used to be.

 

[solowkey]

This is the picture i was given of the damage, the piston is knackered but im told you have to buy 4 to replace. He has got some engine prices between 1-2k +fitting , but rather have existing one fixed to lessen the tarnish on the cars history, i really have no idea which way to go. I really just wanted to sell the car as i stated above so spending money on it to do this and with the cars vaule most probably dropped due to this , im considering cutting losses and just getting rid of it as is , i have already had some one pm me on here asking about buying it but im really not sure i can accept how much it would be worth.

[/IMG]

 

[solowkey]

the problem as i understand it ,

The actuator rod runs the length of the manifold with a metal buttlerfly flap attached above each cylinder the controls air flow.


Somehow one of these flap came off the rod fell down and was sucked into the engine, which proceeded to mash all the insides

thats about as much detail as i can give


Im told this was a massive problem on bmws , known as swirl flaps there , not so regular on an audi but i have found other online and with the same model and yer car , check this, i read it before my problem and never thought it would be that bad , this time the car had done 80k

http://www.tyresmoke.net/forum/topic/131936-new-engine-required-in-audi-a3-20tdi-170-on-2007-plate/

 

[solowkey]

There is actually another part to this i want to raise here for opinions, and on one hand i may have made some bad judgement that has helped me bring this situation along, but on the other hand based on the advice i was given i feel there should not have been potential for this kind of problem.

I don't know what i expect here, but i am obviously looking for a way to resolve my problem and minimize the losses so i have nothing to lose by looking at this possible way forward.




The car was bought in may this year privately from a guy(local policeman) who's brother worked as technician at my local audi garage, it has all its history here, not just services but MOT , tires everything.


I work from home,and my misses is off on maternity so, we hardly use the car , i bought it @ 53.4k , and it was due a service so it went infor full service at the same audi garage, a month or so later @ 53.6k , its now still unde 55k , i've popped in and out of town quite a few times but probably on used it for journeys above 20 mins about 3 times since and with the misses pregnant at the time my driving was very slow and careful.

Im outlining the above to see if this has any bearing on what i have just been looking into , and what could cause the issues below progress and cause such a disaster

I found out the problem yesterday and for the first time the source was revealed, so i have been investigating and found that when service was done there were 3 notes on the report ,
1. 'Urgent' - Brake fluid due
2 . 'advisory' - intercooler pipe leaking oil /

&

3 'advisory' - inlet manifold tumble flap actuator rod broken...

So yes , that is the exact thing that has caused the issue. I usually believe that an advisory can be loved with and would be sure that something with immediate potential to destroy the engine should perhaps have been marked 'urgent'. I carried out the urgent item and left the others as i'd just shelled out 430 for the service just after buying it, i had no concerns and neither did audi at the time - i would have if i was advised of the potential

So withthis point that i have just brought up , i feel like a bit of a **** because it appears i could have avoided this , but i dont have knowledge of cars like this, i'm only aware of the problems with this due to what has happened now, they as the experts should have raised this as an alarm i think, all they wrote about it was (cause of heavy sooting in the engine bay), which to me looked very clean so i didn't give it any concern, and no warnings were given that it was a bad idea to leave it.

As i say nothing to lose by approaching them with the above complaint , that's my reason for looking at this


Overall i have a few options, try to get help from audi due to the above, buy a new engine and have it fitted , repair existing engine in place, sell the car and cut my losses.

Considering that, with the above i just want to get rid of it when i can, does anyone have advice , what would you guys do ?

my concerns with replacing the engine, the depreciation for having an engine swap on history , and the potential issues with the existing components on install, and how long will it take , cost

with fixing it , just cost and time i guess if its even possible.

selling as is , difficulty in finding a buyer and the very sad figure i would get

but my aim is to just get rid of it leaving myself with as close to the 8k that i had in my pocket before i bought it , which im pretty sure will be a massive loss in anyway , but i just want to minimize it and scrape enough together for a lease.

The reality is kicking in right now and totally ****** off

 

[solowkey]

And just to clarify i have only just realized the above checking through my paperwork for clues , i had no idea that there was any link between the issues in the service and this - i had not reason too with my faith in audi.

Its also just dawned on me that even if i fix the car im still going to suffer from the annoying dpf crap , damn i have had better days

 

[mx_rab]

Sorry just to summarise.

The cause of all this was something they knew about and even put on the service report?

 

[s3_trev]

Audi servicing at its finest! I really think that should have been an 'urgent' rather than 'advisory' based on the damage that it has now caused! You arnt mechanically minded so really its not your fault. When you pay a professional to do a job you are relying on them to give you the correct information and steer you in the correct path. From what I can see it would appear you have been let down here.

 

[dave65]

I've had previous experience with bmw engines dropping there swirl flaps into the engine so i would have had this sorted before it damaged the engine, but if you are not mechanically minded you wouldn't know that you were possibly going to end up with a destroyed engine, i also agree i think you have been let down by audi ,should have urgent on the report and they should have explained the risks to you, sorry to hear about it bit of a nightmare situation for you.

 

[solowkey]

Yeah , its easy to say now but i would have it it done if it was on the urgent list it, i called audi yesterday afternoon to see what there view on it is, im getting a call back on monday when mangers are in.

To be honest im not sure what i can expect from them , even if they admit it should have been marked urgent, i guess i will have to just see how it pans out considering the circumstance i am in now with the car at another garage.
Any advice on how to approach this with them ?

Thanks again for the comments

 

[mx_rab]

At the end of the day they knew what would happen if it was left like that. So as far as I can see you shouldn't be paying a thing. They are the ones who ****** up.

Iv just had my fly wheel replaced gearbox overhauled drivshaft replaced and cv boot changed. All in all cost 1700 in just parts never mind labour and I never paid a penny. I didn't even buy the car from an audi dealer and it's 6 years old only saving grace was it has less than 40k on the clock.

 

[mister.c.]

Keeping it simple, the crux of what you are saying is the issue should have not been advisory. I would seek to gather more information to back up your thinking.

Firstly I would seek to establish if your garage was unreasonable compared to other Audi group garages. I would ring a couple of Audi garages. Not ones you have dealt with before; dont need to be too close. Ask to speak to a senior chap in servicing. Say you have been told (and read out your issue). Hopefully they will say get it done because the consequences are severe. Try to prompt them with your knowledge. Take a note of the time of the call and the name. Only difficultly might be if they ask for your registration or are unhelpful for other Audi reasons!

Secondy, say the first bit doesnt work then dont worry. Try to establish irrespective on 1 that something such as this is of the need for immediate attention. Use other garages (e.g. an Audi specialist), your knowledge of the real consequence of it going wrong, ask Honest John a question, use Trading Standards, google, whatever. Build a body of evidence to support your thinking. Yes you may/will need to shout loudly at times but the more substance you have, the more you can turn the screw.

I would ask Audi what are the rules that make things advisory and those that require immediate attention. They must have a definition or if not its not too difficult for you to define one yourself for this purpose. Ask them for examples of vehicle instances which they would class as immediate and instances of advisory. You should be able to compare and contrast your example with theirs. Also in this world of Audi mechanics at times being merely folks who plug into computers then I would expect there is a good chance Audi themselves will place a status on most if not all errors of this type. What is it in this case?

Good luck and be persistant. If you are up for the fight it might not be easy but stick to your guns. I know very little about cars but I am surprised it was merely advisory in this instance. Good luck and keep us up to date.

 

[solowkey]

Well guys , next update , another pretty painful one sadly

I spoke to audi, who did listen and performed some investigation (primarily to try and cover their ***** it seems) , Spoke to a friendly guy who was head tech there to discuss, to my surprise after research and advice done, i was told that this was a very very rare problem and they have never seen it before on their engines, he said the he could personally see the mechanical risk and appreciated it happend with other manufacturers but audi would and have never advised people to have concern if they saw damage to the rod in question, saying that he has seen plenty of cars with it that last 100's of 1000's of miles without any issue or noticeable effect , he did say they would take more care now they have seen this though, of course no help to me,

They also said about the advisory classification of the damaged part, apparently the only things that are given urgent are safety related, like brakes, advisory are for mechanical issues. The also told me i had had phone calls from their call centre after , this is true, several (5 in fact form their records , 2 got through) which i remember being frustrating as they were trying to get me to book my car in for MOT, but it was off the road broken already , so i was just trying to defer until i got it back from what i thought would be a minor issue, apparently on this call the inlet manifold was mentioned also, i imagine something like 'are you also interested in getting the parts that were marked as advisory at your service fixed' i don't think the call centre girl went into the complexities of the engine to alert me to the problem , they have said they will send me a copy of the call which i am now waiting for. In regard to phone calls though there was also another which unfortunately was not recorded as it was to from the audi garage itself not call centre, this was after the service, i had my audicam report emailed through and when the manifold was highlighted i requested it was discussed by call back. This call obviously happened and it was decided based on the conversation that this wasn't a concern and so it was left to break less than 1000 miles later.

My problem still being that even though they wrote down the problem as just the 'cuase of heavy sooting in the engine bay', and didn't indicate any further potential for issue, i feel they should know about the potential for this problem, if it can happen to an engine that only has 55k on it and was looked after by audi all its life then surely its more common or something was done wrong on this car ?

So there doesn't seem to be any haste form audi to try help , and i need to get my car back its been off the road for 6 weeks now and still sat in a sad state. i have been quoted 4K just over inc vat for a new recon engine and all ancillary components, including filters pipes , belts gaskets seals etc

The price breaks down to about 1K labour (200 already , 800 for the swap) , 1K additional in parts including a DPF strip and clean), then its 2K for the recon engine - this seems a bit high to me as i have seen much cheaper around, i'm hoping to get some details on where the engine is being bought form etc but i believe its going to be basically a re-manufactured unit .

The quote to repair existing engine was actually more and they guy wasn't keen due to potential issues which is fair enough( that was 2.4k) he also offered a used engine for 1.3K but also advised teh recon was teh way to go really to be confident.

The garage are an local friendly audi specialist in a small town who have been trading there for 24 years so i pretty confident the are honest and capable

Here is the bill/quote other than the engine itself

I also had a couple more pictures of the damage from them

And finally i picture of the actually piece (from another one he had on the shelf at the garage) so you can see what fell into the engine.

Im not sure where it will go with audi , but its not right how they advised me, i don't expect them to be forthcoming so im going to just have to do it , such a shame as i only want to sell the car now too, but i cant scrap it , i will however be writing a comprehensive report and complaint to audi uk when things settle , hopefully i can get some kind of apology

This does leave one thing i'm not sure about , how will this affect the value of the car, and if there is anything i need to be careful of with this operation going on, is there any extra paperwork i need to be in possession of for the cars records or anything.

I thank you once again for all the comment all read and all good advise i have taken on board

Not sure how long it will take but no rush i guess, i'll let you know how it goes

 

[Jake 61]

That's a very sad tale of sloping shoulders and not much else to cheer you up.
If I had taken a similar tale of woe to my inde garage, I'm quite confident there would have been an agreement on them taking some of the blame. Especially, after so few miles from a service and a decent history of works done to the car.
Sounds like a fob off to me.
S*it deal mate, sorry to hear it.

 

[mx_rab]

I have to say on this one that audi should have forced the issue on repairing this fault when it was first noted. If you point blank refused to have it sorted then to be honest it is your fault. Anything broken on a car is going to affect it in some way.

 

[solowkey]

Not updated for a while things have been hectic to say the least , and unfortunately this is still going on 2 months later.

The engine has been fitted now, but during this work and the 'DPF cleaning' that was meant to be done , further issues were found .

On top of the above 4.2k , new clutch , and the DPF was so knackered it needed replacing the part alone was 1400.

The guy recommended dpf removal and remap instead, so this is being done with a remap that should make the car have better mpg and between 200 - 220 bhp - i just want it to work ..


So now ive spent about 13k - 14k on this car in the last 6 months , i guess im going to have to keep it and get my usage but totally what i was trying to get away from , i wanted a manufacturer spec vehicle i now have a re-manufactured engine, gutted DPF and the intake manifold flaps removed - im told these are mods that will enhance the car no end, and tbh after what i got from audi im leaning towards trusting these guys the techs themselves actually have same setup,

My next problem was that this isnt actually legal (dpf removal) but im told its a minor visual check (and externally df looks the same) and something that want even be done during mots in a lot of places , he is very 'by the book' chap so im surprised it was actually on the not allowed list, but as i said above he has it himself and he has promised they will mot it in future every time if needed and that if i wanted to pay 1400 for dpf install at later date he would do it labour free but he said i will see problems again eventually even if a new one is installed - i wont sell this car until its destroyed now i dont think , i wouldn't get any of the money back i have spent on it so its worth far far more to me , unless of course the buyer appreciated work done.

So i guess the one good thing out of all of this is that im going to be free of this DPF ******** and i should be able to just drive my car and it will become a benefit to own once again rather than a hindrance, ****** hope so anyway

Having said that i am never going to own another car , and i am never going to use another diesel again, im even tempted to avoid audi but i really like the cars , i guess it will depend on lease deals at time, but without the worry life will be so beautiful !

Im still working with Audi uk to discuss how this all came about but as it stands , there is no way i will be using stratord audi again, even if they are my local, they still hold the line that damage to this competent warranted to no warning to the customer, in fact the manager said that advising me it would possible cause catastrophic issues would be scaremongering citing it could have take 2 -3 years before it broke, to which i questioned that they would prefer the preventative maintenance cost to the engine replacement and associated costs no matter how far down the line it failed.

Im sure i have a case here especially with them looking after the car all its life, and just the lack of concern and the *** covering operation that ensued when i contacted them , even now i have not had any kind of apology or sympathy whatsoever , they came across as if its expected to happen at some point at the car and that the mileage and history is of no matter , and the calls chasing me to book it in for mot is their sticking point stating that i was reminded of these issues several times , though when i mention that the discussion for this took place on the day of the service and that we need to hear that telephone recording the conversation is quickly diverted away.

if they knew it could cause this problem they should have advised me. If they didn't know it could cause this, why not? because it evidently does cause this issue , im living proof. And further to taht why are they not interested in how such a 'rare' and strange problem happened to an engine that was very low mileage and relentless looked after by them , and now with clutch and DPF shot at the mileage too , something ****** stinks.

Hopefully picking it up today or tomorrow , guess i should be happy , forgive me if i don't jump for joy.

 

[solowkey]

I just want to add ..
.