Full In Gear Acceleration - Some Lag

[xBox]

Haven't worked out all the gears, but basically preparing to overtake @ say 45-50mph....

- select S
- car drops from 6th to 5th/4th
- floor accelerator car drops to 3rd/2nd
- revs out to redline and......

...at this point there is a slight pause at max rpm, before the next gear and further acceleration, plus the ensuing flurry of revs and next gears.

Oh and the speed limit gong

What is it I'm experiencing?

S-Tronic not having the correct next gear pre-selected and needing to juggle, surely not clutch slip?

Very sure this is normal, just wondering the cause of this?

 

[Rob2k68]

Never tried the process above I find S mode pretty useless it doesn't seem to be in harmony with peak engine power and just revs out for the sake of it. I tend to leave it in D and just floor the gas for the kick down - that's pretty effective !!

 

[Jassyo06]

It's a laggy engine,gearbox at times, today l was in greenpeace mode,got caught behind a seriously bad slow driver,pushed it back into Serious mode nowt nothing for about 2 seconds,could have got me into a little trouble but luckily no on coming traffic,7 months now and know that l will never gel with the gearbox

 

[jaypers777]

In this scenario, you will find using the paddles far more effective (and fun).

 

[SmileyS3]

Were you in Dynamic before you selected 'S'? Cos you can select 'S' gearbox in any mode...so...if in 'comfort' mode or whatever...you can still select 'S' but it won't be the full mental 'S' mode.
To be fair, what you have described does sound about right for that situation. The computer has to be ready for you to drive like a granny AND a nutcase at the same time...so you are driving along in 'granny' mode and suddenly tell it to go into 'nutcase'then it does take a second to decide what level of 'nutcase' you actually desire.
As Jaypers said, flick it in Manual and you can go a 'nutcase' as you want!

 

[S3118]

Quite agree use the paddles for over taking best option & let the car revert back to auto.....lot of fun.

 

[Simon L]

It's a laggy engine,gearbox at times, today l was in greenpeace mode,got caught behind a seriously bad slow driver,pushed it back into Serious mode nowt nothing for about 2 seconds,could have got me into a little trouble but luckily no on coming traffic,7 months now and know that l will never gel with the gearbox

Dude you gotta leave that 'greenpeace' mode alone........it's just a world of pain!!

 

[naughts4187]

Yep I have this too. Almost scary when it happens. I sat for a good 1.5 seconds the other day with a van coming towards me on a roundabout. This is where is miss my manual...

 

[pat15312]

It's a laggy engine,gearbox at times, today l was in greenpeace mode,got caught behind a seriously bad slow driver,pushed it back into Serious mode nowt nothing for about 2 seconds,could have got me into a little trouble but luckily no on coming traffic,7 months now and know that l will never gel with the gearbox

Just mash your right foot into the carpet and let the car sort the gears out. Even if your in Eco, the car will respond - you don't need to be messing about the the gearbox mode.


or pull the left paddle

 

[FBF01]

This is why at the end of the pedal throw there is a click down...basically if your sleeping at the wheel (not literally lol) and you need to get a move on, stamp the foot and it'll kick in to dynamic/race mode. Have this in the mk7 R.

Looking forward to s tronic but don't know personally how much il use manual mode.

 

[Simon L]

TBH I'm with Rob, more often than not pootling around in Comfort mode (D) and if you give the pedal a bit of welly the old boost lights come on like a xmas tree, it's no slouch either

 

[15audis3]

I get this now and again, its just the gearbox not quite ready for what you are asking of it. Use paddles in manual mode to overtake instead, or just say in D.. There is no need to go into S to overtake, I find it pretty useless. Use manual mode/paddles.

 

[Simonb1975]

Could there be an issue with the BHP outputs getting so high nowadays on a 2 litre engine ?
I have no knowledge to back this up, just asking. I would imagine that a particular capacity engine can only be pushed so far.

 

[Hartwell]

Wow, this confusing thread is exactly why I bought a manual. I couldn't wrap my head around all the plethora of options in the split second when you decide to overtake or not. Just drop a gear and go. I know S-tronic owners will tell me you can achieve the same by pulling the paddle but having test driven or had hire cars with S-tronic I could not get used to it. Probably needed more time or practice however how do you get round the laggy pull out at roundabouts or blind road junctions from stationary that is sometimes reported by S-tronic drivers.

 

[Martinbanshee]

It's simple with S-Tronic.

Manual car: push clutch with spare foot, take hand off steering wheel, shake gearlever about and select desired gear, take foot off clutch pedal, get ready to over take (but be ready to change gear mid-overtake).
S-Tronic car: ping paddle twice, get ready to overtake.

Ok, I'm taking the Micky a bit but I've always found it quicker and easier than a manual.

 

[Martinbanshee]

Wow, this confusing thread is exactly why I bought a manual. I couldn't wrap my head around all the plethora of options in the split second when you decide to overtake or not. Just drop a gear and go. I know S-tronic owners will tell me you can achieve the same by pulling the paddle but having test driven or had hire cars with S-tronic I could not get used to it. Probably needed more time or practice however how do you get round the laggy pull out at roundabouts or blind road junctions from stationary that is sometimes reported by S-tronic drivers.

Once people don't expect the S-Tronic gearbox to behave like a manual and learn its operation they can utilise its full potential.
I never have 'lag' at junctions/roundabouts, if others do I'd put it down to lack of observation or poor planning.

 

[Rob2k68]

....or pull the left paddle

Yep this works rather than sliding the stick over to the left to engage manual mode (which will reduce the time for the overtake) a brief flick of the minus paddle will change from D6 to M5 - it may require a couple of flicks if you're cruising at 1200rpm and on the overtake situation to get to M4 with faster pickup. If you ease off the gas a little whilst doing it the box seems to react quicker. To get back into D just hold the plus paddle for 2 seconds.

Or as said previous just floor it to operate kickdown ;o) Whichever works best for you.

 

[veeeight]

The S3, when not using Launch Control, is a very laggy car from standstill.

Especially relevant in the real world when pulling out from busy junctions and busy roundabouts.

A BMW 228i beats it off the line everytime, when both cars are not using Launch Control, due to
Turbo Lag
Gearing
AWD drivetrain losses






More discussion about the above video in this thread:
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/s3-slow.237982/

 

[Martinbanshee]

We're not talking about racing here, we're talking about normal real world driving. If you get caught out going for a gap in traffic or pulling out of a roundabout you were chancing it in the first place or confused the box. Like I said, if you learn the box and use it appropriately that won't happen.

 

[veeeight]

Indeed.

Real world driving.

First, or S1, at a very busy junction, or a very busy roundabout.

The turbo lag from standstill can and will make it slow to exit.

The turbo is not spinning, there is no boost. Unlike a manual car, where you can rev and drop the clutch to make a quicker getaway.

With a S-tronic - you just have to wait for a bigger gap in the traffic, compared to if you are in a manual car.


No amount of "pre-planning", "lack of observation" or "learning the box" can overcome this limitation of the S-tronic and turbo lag combination, from standstill.


Previous:
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/launch-without-launch-control.220996/

 

[Martinbanshee]

Like I said, it's more than quick enough to get out into traffic, quicker than many other cars, It's not a competition to see who can get into the smallest gap in traffic. If filling the gaps were that bad without a manual S3 we'd have people selling their Micras because they can't get to work.
Does it behave differently from a manual? Obviously yes. Will you get stranded at a junction with an artic heading towards you? Only if you're doing it wrong.
If you must squeeze into gaps that aren't there, dive across crossroads with 1.5 seconds until the next car comes or overtake without forward thinking your going to come a cropper, manual or not.

 

[Martinbanshee]

I suspect this might do the trick V8

 

[Terminator x]

A bit o/t however as a manual S3 owner I was at Silverstone this week and we got to go out in their S3 which was S Tronic. I must say I was impressed, we used the levers of course and the car was great around there, full bore acceleration and banging through the gears. I was also impressed with the noise tbf as we listed to them going past the pit lane straight at well over 100!

TX.

 

[veeeight]

Like I said, it's more than quick enough to get out into traffic, quicker than many other cars

Sadly, the S3 is slower into gaps in traffic, than a humble A1, or 1.2 Ibiza

Buy a 300PS S3 DSG, but allow more time to get into traffic
(heavy car, large turbo lag)

My 7 speed DSG in my previous A1 was a bit quicker in situations like this.......

Similarly, my 1.2 TSI DSG Ibiza was much faster at launching than any A3 S tronic I've driven.

 

[veeeight]

Actually, what you need is a 1972 Datsun 1200 .............




http://www.geek.com/geek-cetera/wor...72-datsun-can-do-0-60-in-1-8-seconds-1416865/

 

[pat15312]

The S3, when not using Launch Control, is a very laggy car from standstill.

Especially relevant in the real world when pulling out from busy junctions and busy roundabouts.

I don't agree with this at all.

Perhaps you have a dodgy car?

 

[veeeight]

Nope. Does it in every S3 I've driven, plus see
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/launch-without-launch-control.220996/
for more S3 owner examples.

 

[Martinbanshee]

Observation 1: some people want to drive like idiots and squeeze into non-existent gaps and still complain when DSG reacts differently to a manual.

Observation 2: some people can't get to grips with the operation of DSG and should stick to manual.

Observation 3: some people have zero trouble with DSG and haven't had a near death experience.

Diagnosis: Operator error.



*Disclaimer* light hearted banter

 

[Simon L]

I've got to agree with Pat and Martin, I really haven't noticed any lag at all pulling out of junctions or roundabouts, and I'm genuinely not saying that to disagree (again!) with Veeeight or to justify the money I've shelled out.

I'm not always as patient as I could be when it comes to traffic, sometimes you just don't want to die of old age waiting for someone to let you out or for a larger gap in traffic, but it just goes with no fuss, lag, or anything else..........on occasion eg a right hander, pretty damn rapidly.

I have however noticed the occasional split-second dip when accelerating hard after coasting, but certainly nothing like 2 seconds or whatever I've seen touted on here............ 0.5 of a second at most.

 

[veeeight]

There's some denial going on here.

S3 has turbo.
Every turbo has lag. Especially when accelerating from idle.
Can't escape that.

Some manufacturers deal with this better, eg twin scroll turbo, variable vane, smaller turbo.

Witness BMW twin scroll vs S3 turbo:




You may be compensating by allowing a larger gap in traffic before pulling out, but that is completely different from saying that there is "no turbo lag" - because that simply isn't true.

You cannot get a DSG car with a large turbo, to get off the line quicker (without using launch control) than a manual turbo car, or a naturally aspirated car.

 

[Simon L]

Well I tried!! I guess none of us are going to give any ground here! lol

 

[Martinbanshee]

^^^

I'll summarise then...

Impatient drivers may experience issues. The rest of us are happy.

 

[veeeight]

Or

Drivers that are used to "instant power" from driving manual cars, and/or naturally aspirated engined cars,
May have to downgrade their expectations
When driving S-tronic with turbo

 

[Simon L]

OK, now don't shoot me down in flames here because I really haven't thought this one through but I don't suppose having the start/stop engaged or not would make any difference?

I still have mine engaged, although it does irritate me occasionally!

I can't really think why it should make a blind bit of difference unless it squirts a smidge of fuel when you spark it back to life?.........just p1ssing in the wind really!!

 

[Martinbanshee]

Ooofft!

Strange, I didn't have any problems when I had this to deal with

 

[Martinbanshee]

OK, now don't shoot me down in flames here because I really haven't thought this one through but I don't suppose having the start/stop engaged or not would make any difference?

I still have mine engaged, although it does irritate me occasionally!

I can't really think why it should make a blind bit of difference unless it squirts a smidge of fuel when you spark it back to life?.........just p1ssing in the wind really!!

I've got my start/stop disabled via VCDS

 

[Simon L]

I've got my start/stop disabled via VCDS

.....like I said ..........just p1ssing in the wind!! lol

In that case my second theory has to be right............having advanced key just gives you a faster, better handling and more responsive car

 

[Martinbanshee]

All part of the fun

To be fair to V8 and anyone else, these are just my experiences & opinions and I understand that other people will disagree. That's cool, no one wins on the internet

 

[Martinbanshee]

In that case my second theory has to be right............having advanced key just gives you a faster, better handling and more responsive car

Woah!!! Don't go there. Don't start with the Advanced Key

 

[pipedaudi]

As veeeight says, this is a turbo+dsg issue. It basically means turning into a road of moving traffic requires a much bigger gap (and longer wait) than you'd need if you were driving a manual (or a 20 year old Toyota Corolla). Just putting it out there.