A3 Quattro - Forged build - Info gathering.

[storm.rift]

Hey guys,

Long long time reader, first time posting.

Will be dropping in a forged engine soon but have some questions i simply cant find answers for and/or be easier to have them in one place

I currently have my pre facelift A3 Q running basically S3 turbo conversion inc FMIC. Mapped by Rtech - no graph but after a phone call they suggest its about 280 ish.

My goal for BHP is 450/500

1)The forged APY i bought has Wiesco forged pistons and ARP rods - The engine builders have advised the head is running solid lifters and the valves seemed like they were double sprung - Is there any way to confirm or deny what is or isnt fitted to the head valve spring wise without stripping it? As i have no proof of what is exactly in the head just hear say and i dont want a tune based on what is there and break something or lose out by not having it tuned for what might be in there.

2)I have my self a Audi TT ecu for the wideband EGT conversion - i have a complete engine loom from the S3 it was in as i broke it for parts, so will just swap the engine loom when i get round to swapping the engine. When making the move from Narrow band to wideband, i also have the clocks and matching ECU, from what i read it is possible i cant use the S3 clocks depending on 2 or 3 plugs behind the clocks in my A3. Not checked yet to confirm and unsure as seems i can only find limit info on this. - most being why dont you just have the S3.
3)Hopefully i can use the clocks - ECU currently has a Badger5 map on it for somewhere around 330hp. Can anyone foresee potential issues running this ecu + clocks without mapping - i am thinking it is an issue and will need to be on a flat bed to tuners once all is in. Ideally dont want to immo defeat the ecu.

I am struggling on turbo choice -
GT28.. wont make that power
GT30.. possibly - but still unsure as full boost is about 4100rpm? and i have a 1.8 bottom end not stroker.
TD06 - Quite possible to make the power again not sure on how this will perform on a 1.8 bottom end.
Unsure on turbos potentials/downfalls, but asking so i do it right first time.

I know a lot depends on the head possibly having at least valve springs, also its not going to be ideal having a small port head. But my intentions are not to rev the nuts off it but maybe if the hardware is there to allow to raise the rev limit will help. Suggestions, thoughts?

4) I'm assuming as i haven't found anything to contradict this in my search - AGU head uses the same size valves as a small port, it is the runners in/out that are larger - hoping this is the case as if it turns out my head does have these and i can reuse these valves i can switch to a large port head.

Parts i have collected so far for the conversion:
Deka 630cc injectors (i know ill be needing bigger after researching maybe)
AH Fabs FMIC
Engine as above.
TVR AP Racing Calipers - Badger5 brackets.
Apexi AVC-R Boost controller
Possibly Emerald K6 stand alone - undecided if ill use this yet..

Manifold if i'm correct tubular will increase spool time, but gain top end and likes of the K04 JBS style manifold will help spool sooner but loose top end.

Long post sorry - but hoping you guys can help me be a little more decisive on turbo/manifold etc with some real experience. Keeping my options open on ecus turbos etc hence the confusion on TT ecu,emerald etc

 

[superkarl]

Pics of the head. Double valve springs are fine and exactly what you want, they are upgraded.

All of your turbo suggestions are too small for comfortable 450-500hp.
And you don't want to rev the nuts off it, which you are likely to need to if its a 1.8 still, and unknown compression.

A billet hta3071 might be what you need, at least, otherwise 3576 35R size.

I wouldn't worry about large port/small port. As long as it's built and it sounds like it is. How was it sold to you?

If you're doing a wideband conversion you won't need a K6 or a boost controller.

Obviously you'll need larger injectors than 630, how large depends on fuel pressure.

I'm confused as to why you're mentioning a ko4 jbs manifold. You need a custom, big turbo mani. V band all the way. Options are B5, TSR, Nortech and pagparts.

I'd advise you read some build threads, plenty to go through. Tufftys, Stacey's, scullies, Andrews

 

[storm.rift]

Hey thanks for getting back to me.

The engine was sold to me with paper work for the rods and pistons and rings honing etc. the head work valves etc was done by the 2nd previous owner but had no proof only going on what the garage said who built the bottom end. not sure why or how they would need to check the pressure on the valve springs etc if only doing the bottom end but as i say this is hearsay from the previous owner - the perks of not having the engine built yourself.

Sorry i guess mentioning the JBS manifold confused the matter, what i mean is the likes of a tubular and a cast manifold.

i have had a long read on the threads, think i may be suffering from information overload trying to learn too much at once - So i can sell the K6 and the Apexi AVC-R - good more funds for WMI and other bits
I do also have a inline pump to add to the mix and help the standard pump with pressure/delivery of fuel.

Will have another read concentrating a little more on turbos - i potentially want at least stroker to run the bigger turbos but also at a cross roads on planting a 3.2 v6 in ( so undecided really)

 

[Shoomakan]

Hey thanks for getting back to me.

The engine was sold to me with paper work for the rods and pistons and rings honing etc. the head work valves etc was done by the 2nd previous owner but had no proof only going on what the garage said who built the bottom end. not sure why or how they would need to check the pressure on the valve springs etc if only doing the bottom end but as i say this is hearsay from the previous owner - the perks of not having the engine built yourself.

Sorry i guess mentioning the JBS manifold confused the matter, what i mean is the likes of a tubular and a cast manifold.

i have had a long read on the threads, think i may be suffering from information overload trying to learn too much at once - So i can sell the K6 and the Apexi AVC-R - good more funds for WMI and other bits
I do also have a inline pump to add to the mix and help the standard pump with pressure/delivery of fuel.

Will have another read concentrating a little more on turbos - i potentially want at least stroker to run the bigger turbos but also at a cross roads on planting a 3.2 v6 in ( so undecided really)

A stroker is a job any competent mechanic/machinist can do, and there's plenty of documented builds with tons of info here regarding swapping bigger turbos and all supporting mods. A 3.2 swap isn't as well documented, and a 3.2 won't make over 280hp or so without forced induction, so you're back to square 1, albeit with alot more torque to start with. So then you're paying for a 3.2, installing and running said 3.2, and THEN paying again for a turbo kit for that motor, and all the headache associated with getting that done.

Unless money is no object for you, then that's something else. In that case, I'd probably go for a 2.7TT swap. More headscratching, but more reward.

If you've never owned a powerful car before, I heavily advise a hybrid setup especially as it's easier on the wallet. 300+hp is nothing to sneeze at, you know. You won't beat properly fast cars, but as a compromise between power, money spent and reliability/driveability, nothing beats a well built hybrid setup.

 

[storm.rift]

Thanks again for everyone's input. I have contemplated a hybrid K04 and it is something i have decided against after much thought as it wont produce any where near my goal.
i am thinking now a gtx2867R with a view to upgrade further in the future and give my pockets time to recover and maybe go stroker.
I think the above turbo will be the safe bet considering im not 100% on whats in the head.
What other options are there around the the above turbo with similar spool/power options.
Am i correct in expecting the GTX2867R to give me a reliable 360hp+/-

Look forward to hear off you all on turbo options even if hybrid/billet GTX2867R options there would be.

 

[storm.rift]

Just thought i would add a pic of the car in question

 

[superkarl]

I'm biased because I have one but, the 2867 is ******* awesome and perfect on 1.8 displacement

V band housing on a tubular mani, I don't think you'd be disappointed.

 

[storm.rift]

I'm biased because I have one but, the 2867 is ******* awesome and perfect on 1.8 displacement

V band housing on a tubular mani, I don't think you'd be disappointed.

Brill just the man i need to chat with in that case.

Do you think there is any need to go large port head with this turbo?
Where is your spool start and full boost?

Finally where is yours at power wise?

Thanks

 

[superkarl]

Brill just the man i need to chat with in that case.

Do you think there is any need to go large port head with this turbo?
Where is your spool start and full boost?

Finally where is yours at power wise?

Thanks

I'm large port, but I'd be willing to stick with small just in the interest of seeing how it does.

Mine hits full boost at about 3700rpm on the road. Makes 360lbs torque and 380hp.

I love it. My car is nice to drive below 3k and returns crazy good mpg. When that boost builds it goes ballistic.
I've been in a lot of much faster cars but I'm extremely happy with how mine performs compared

 

[storm.rift]

In that case, think i will just stick the engine in with small port head and see what happens. Then future wise leave that there for now concentrate on now.

i have some pictures i took of the inlet side of the head - If this helps diagnose what might be in there.

 

[badger5]

We've built a GTX2867 mk4 ibiza previously.. external gated. 370bhp unit tuned down for track use.. 1.5bar
We've also mapped a customer build on same unit, and customer wanted it max'd out as he had been mis-sold it as a 450bhp turbo by a.n.other company... Running is very hard it did get to 417bhp but it was at the limit imho. Uber hot. 2.2bar boost. Forcing it to do it imho.

Small a/r GT30, smallport head with cams on another customer car is making just shy of 500bhp on a bog stock aum engine (just rodded) - runs tubular manifold, exteral wastegate etc.. Its torque delivery overlayed with tufftys stroker 35 (which has epic onset of torque) matched it to 5krpm.

Some good for thought.. Some typical manifold setups we use.. below.

 

[SHUk]

That manifold looks awesome! =]