S3 DSG

[marriedblonde]

Bowfer is correct in what he is saying about Audi and the DSG gearbox - according to the article in Audi driver. Audi marketing feel "They reckon that a manual gearbox is the best solution for a car with the character of the s£"

Personally I do love the DSG but it is far from perfect. Banging up and down the motorway it's great for my needs. But trying to leave the industrial esate my office is on is a royal pain in the ****. I have to pull out onto a roundabout

 

[Lenaldo]

Again David,Audi seem to agree with me (in the case of the S3 anyway).
Again,I don't agree with the test drive theory either.
I'm not in the habit of ragging the **** off a test car,so the redline change wouldn't have shown up.
The error lies with Audi.
They should not call manual mode,manual mode.
Perhaps I should have pursued a refusal of the car,under a misdeclaration of goods ?

If I am to reverse your argument around,you continually try to tell us that DSG is wonderful because you like it,despite loads of people agreeing that it has foibles.

Agree with what part of your diatribe against DSG? Apologies for the confusion but you keep changing the goalposts when people post reasonable responses to your points.

If you don't take the opportunity to test drive a car in the same manner as how you would drive one normally then more fool you. You're an even bigger fool to accept the marketing spiel on something as important to the driving experience as a gearbox (nevermind a semi-automatic one!) without even driving one before specifying it.

It's easy to blame someone else for our mistakes but in this case i'm afraid you've only got yourself to blame and no matter how many hundreds or thousands of posts moaning will change that fact.

Is DSG perfect? No, nothing is. Is it right for a lot of A3 owners? Yes. Is it wrong for you? Yes. But i'd still argue you are to blame for your poor choice in specifying it and should just hold your hands up and accept that.

 

[vagman]

Dunno what all the negative comment regarding DSG is all about.

I've had 2 DSG equipped TTs since 2004 and covered about 30k miles in them and think it is superb.

So much so, that I can't wait to get my new Sportback TDI 170 S-Line which will have DSG.

A very small minority of TT drivers on the UKTT forum used to moan about DSG, but the general concensus of opinion was that they were unable to fathom out or adapt to the driving style required.

It really is quite simple, use the paddles or the stick to select gear you require and Bob's yer uncle.

When speccing the A3, I was disappointed that you couldn't have both quattro and DSG and as much as I wanted 4wd, I felt that DSG was the must have.

 

[marriedblonde]

Ok so I didn;t actually get to finsh my post before hitting the send button...

DSG with the 3.2 is a whole different kettle of fish. You got launch control which makes a big difference.

The problem with DSG and the diesel car is that the power delivery is all or nothing, and mostly nothing lower down the rev range. The result is a hell of a delay when moving away from standstill.

I put my car up the strip at inters a few times this year and got spanked off the line every time as you can't launch the thing...

I think as an alternative to a conventional auto it is brilliant. As a replacement for a manual it's not there yet.

 

[Spook]

I'm listening to this debate with great interest, having just replaced my S3 with an A3 3.2 S-Line DSG - my first non-manual car in 26 years of driving.

One thing I noticed very quickly is that in "D" it is very lethargic "off the line". It responds a damn sight better when you use the paddles or stick, which in my view also make "S" totally pointless. I haven't used the launch control yet - I'd be interested to hear from people who have what they think of this feature.

IMHO, I would have thought that the power delivery characteristics of a diesel would exacerbate any "DSG delay". With this in mind, I wonder whether Bowfer tried the DSG in a non-diesel car before he ordered it?

 

[johnmv55]

I have driven all three: M3 with SMG, 3.2 A3 with DSG, and a Ferrari 360 Modena with ? .......paddles anyway.

The M3 SMG was just plain *****, just felt like an old 70's automatic.

The 3.2 A3 DSG annoyed me the moment I pulled out of dealers forecourt into traffic and it went straight to 6th, there were also a few times I thought the box felt "confused" and hesitated before changing, although to be fair I was trying to make it confused.

The 360 was badly adjusted I think, the downchanges with added "blip" were pure F1, it brought a smile every time it downchanged, the up changes were horrendous and the power cut was viscous, causing the whole engine and transmission to bang about.

So, I am not impressed by any of them, sure Shuey's F1 has flappy paddles, but I'll bet the ecu doesn't over-ride the drivers input!

 

[Ess_Three]

I think the DSG technology is impressive...

But on an S3? Or anything sporty? Not for me...

The paddles can be fun (gimmick?) and the launch control great for showing your mates...once. Then leaving it alone in fear of wrecking your clutches!

However, I can see a damn good application for DSG...and that's on a performance diesel. With the limited power band the DSG makes perfect sense to me.
I recently drove my old man's new Golf GT TDI 170 DSG...and mighty impressive it is, for the sort of driving the majority of 'performance' diesel drivers do...you know, quick, but not breakneck, sidewards, devil-take-the-hindmost type of driving.
It was great...changing up for you (even at the red line) avoids the issue of the dreaded governor rearing up...and plenty of engine braking etc for the hills.

If I were looking to buy a diesel for everyday use I'd certainly consider DSG.
But I'm not...

So I'll agree with bowfer...it's impressive in it's place...just not for me in the type of car I want.


There again...with regards to the S3...a £30k S3 with a 4 cylinder engine? When you can have a V6 soundtrack for less money? Decisions, decisions...
Ahh...but the V6 is nose heavy and the chassis is dulled over the smaller engined A3s...
But it sounds good...

Good job I'm not looking to buy one...

 

[marriedblonde]

Thats the thing in my denzel for blasting up and down the motorway to work DSG is spot on and really suits the narrow power band but it is also it's down fall - standig starts. The dealy is the pain if it had launch control that may over come the problem but it doesn't...

 

[Ess_Three]

Thats the thing in my denzel for blasting up and down the motorway to work DSG is spot on and really suits the narrow power band but it is also it's down fall - standig starts. The dealy is the pain if it had launch control that may over come the problem but it doesn't...

Valid point...

Standing starts are not as good as with a manual 'box...but for me personally, it's largely irrelevant anyway...I don't much go in for the standing start thing...

From memory, even using launch control on DSG there is a delay.

You just can't beat a good manual 'box for that...sadly, VAG cars don't have good manual 'boxes either!
Too cumbersome and slow...although, at least you can get off the line quickly using your left leg to let the clutch out, even if you can't then change gear as quickly as a DSG.

 

[marriedblonde]

Sorry when I say stnading starts I'm not talking about the traffic light grand prix - even I am getting too old for that I mean pulling out of a junction, roundabout etc - the dreaded delay! The fact there's now power until 1500-1800rpm in the denzel causes the delay - PITA. But great once up and running.

 

[Spook]

From memory, even using launch control on DSG there is a delay.

I have just tested the launch control on my 3.2 for the first time this evening, and you are indeed correct, there is a split-second delay after you release the footbrake before it sets off. When it does go, it's like a scalded cat....

The handbook says to dial-in 3200 rpm before releasing the brake (with ESP off, in "S"), but the most I have been able to get is 2800 rpm, and then only after blipping the throttle a couple of times. Even then, no matter how hard I press the pedal, I cannot get 3200 rpm. Has anyone else experienced this, or am I doing something wrong?

 

[Ess_Three]

Sorry when I say stnading starts I'm not talking about the traffic light grand prix - even I am getting too old for that I mean pulling out of a junction, roundabout etc - the dreaded delay! The fact there's now power until 1500-1800rpm in the denzel causes the delay - PITA. But great once up and running.

I'd not considered that...
It was my old man's new car...so didn't feel it was appropriate...especially with him sat next to me!

I guess you are right though...

With a manual you can dial in revs / slip the clutch a bit if need be to get the revs up quick and it onto boost.

 

[dpeilow]

Valid point...
You just can't beat a good manual 'box for that...sadly, VAG cars don't have good manual 'boxes either!
Too cumbersome and slow...although, at least you can get off the line quickly using your left leg to let the clutch out, even if you can't then change gear as quickly as a DSG.

Maybe that is changing

As for driving impressions, the gear box was beautifully smooth, direct (shortest travel on an Audi so far....?), and distinct, i.e. even better than the 6MT in TT 2,0T. Steering and cornering more direct than regular A3, chassis quite well balanced for a front-heavy Audi (as far as I could make out from this short trip). And the enginge punch was phenomenal compared to the A3 3,2's and R32's I've driven. So much for "only 15 BHP difference"! And turbo lag was not as dramatic as I had come to expect from reading various test reports, far from it.

All in all, my impressions were positive and the car is in every inch more desirable than I've ever thought the old S3 to be.

From RS6 Forum

 

[Lenaldo]

Thought i'd drag this thread up from the recent past after visiting the R8 Configurator website which informs us that the R8 will be available with

"an R-Tronic transmission. Like the R8 itself, this sequential six-speed gearbox is racing-bred, with the emphasis clearly on perfomance. Shifting can be carried out either via a joystick * or by paddles on the steering wheel.

In addition, an automatic mode is available. Shift by wire technology allows very short shift times."

Just wondered what everyone now thought of the comments made earlier which suggested R-Tronic,nee S-Tronic, nee DSG was not suitable for "Sporty" Audi's?

 

[Amchlolor]

Thought i'd drag this thread up from the recent past after visiting the R8 Configurator website which informs us that the R8 will be available with

"an R-Tronic transmission. Like the R8 itself, this sequential six-speed gearbox is racing-bred, with the emphasis clearly on perfomance. Shifting can be carried out either via a joystick * or by paddles on the steering wheel.

In addition, an automatic mode is available. Shift by wire technology allows very short shift times."

Just wondered what everyone now thought of the comments made earlier which suggested R-Tronic,nee S-Tronic, nee DSG was not suitable for "Sporty" Audi's?

Entirely depends on how it behaves.
The DSG gearbox COULD be made to work in a sporty car.
I'm sure they could do 'something' to avoid the take-off delay,and they could DEFINITELY do something to stop it changing up for you,even in manual mode.
If they've changed the software/hardware to suit the R8,then it begs the question,why couldn't they do it for the S3 ?

 

[Lenaldo]

I could just let this lie but i won't - mainly to prove that i can admit when i'm wrong.

According to this months Evo, the R-Tronic isn't a development of DSG but a development of the Lambo E-Gear.

Evo did query why it wasn't developed and came to the conclusion it would have cost too much to develop it for such a small quantity of cars sold per annum.

And in the same breath the mentioned that Porsche are developing a twin clutch gearbox at present.

So i was wrong. And that'll teach me to stop being a smart ****. Apologies to all concerned - especially Bowfer.

 

[god_thats_quick]

I don't know why the don't just use the gearbox from the Veryon (7spd DSG), for the R8 however maybe they will in the future when they give it an even more serious engine.

Oh hang on it might be cost and the Lambo e-gear is proven to work and a lot cheaper.