icm delete & tfsi coil conversion, now car won't start

[Andreas DB]

Car: Audi A4 b5 1.8tq (aeb)

Swapped my coils and icm with a icm delete kit; coil adaptors are by integrated engineering, coils are beru zse 043 and the icm bypass is of unkown origin (it does not have a red connector like the integrated engineering one), it does however say volvo on one of the connectors.

Engine turns, but does not fire up, it doesn't even try.

I pulled out the coils and sparkplugs and tested for spark, none had any spark.
Reconnected the old coils and icm, they had plenty of spark.

I have a hunch (based on nothing) that the problem is the icm bypass, it might be wired wrong or it might even be meant for the s4 and not the 1.8t.

Can I try the new tfsi style coils with the icm connected, or will it ruin the coils?
Is there a way I can make a bypass myself with wires and pins?

 

[Oranoco]

When we did my conversion we did it with a repair loom and cut out the ICM and it's associated wiring.

Sounds like something is breaking down and I would suspect the plug and play aspect to be the root cause.

 

[aragorn]

got any pics of what you have?

It does sound like some sort of wiring issue.

I wouldnt connect the ICM to the new coils, they're not designed to work like that, and i dont know if the signal is the same.

 

[Andreas DB]

Here is pics of what I got:

Icm Bypass:

Coil adapters:

On car:

I checked the electrical continuity on all the adapters, and they seem to be working, so I'm kinda lost.

 

[aragorn]

You should be able to trace the pins thru from that image and see if they goto the correct place.

Are the beru coils engaged properly on the plugs? they look like they're sticking up a bit?

 

[Andreas DB]

I just checked for spark on the valvecover, during that check i made shure that the plugs where engaged properly.
However I dont think they go down much further than in the picture.

 

[Andreas DB]

messured from the icm adaptor, pin 1 went to cylinder 1 (the one in the front), pin 2 to cylinder 2, 3 did not have a pin, pin 4 to cylinder 3 and pin 5 to cylinder 4 (the closest one to the bulkhead).

This is the pin on the coil adapter that got the signal from the icm bypass:

All adapters have this wiring:

I also noticed that on one connector the signal pin was different, probably doesn't matter since neither coil gives spark:

Edit: checked for earth with the adapters connected pin 2 & 4 or 1 & 3 (not shure which way you count the pins, but they where the same for all cylinders) all made the noise.

 

[Oranoco]

Coil packs look like they need to be rotated 180 degrees and pushed home.

My coil packs with ECS plate.

 

[Andreas DB]

They might not be pushed all the way down, but when i did a spark test on the valvecover, I had the plugs pushed all the way in to the coil, and I put the threads of the sparkplugs on the valvecover for ground, they had no spark.

The old coils and the icm had spark, using the same test method.

How do I test for 12v on the coil adapters (preferably with pictures of the symbol on the multimeter)?

 

[Andreas DB]

I bought a testlight to check for 12v, which it had.
I also bought this:

It gave no light on the new coils, but it did give on the old.

It seems like everything works except the coils. The coils where brand new, bubble wrapped and all, I connot have gotten 4 production error coils?

 

[aragorn]

the pinouts seem reversed if you compare what you've measured with the diagram i've posted...

Have you also checked the other pins appear as shown on my diagram, it shows what should be 12v and ground etc.

 

[Andreas DB]

I'm sorry I did not really understand the diagram.

messured from the icm adaptor, pin 1 went to cylinder 1 (the one in the front), pin 2 to cylinder 2, 3 did not have a pin, pin 4 to cylinder 3 and pin 5 to cylinder 4 (the closest one to the bulkhead).

Red: Ground
Yellow: signal from icm
Green: ground
Pink: 12v

What is wrong the coil pins or the icm pins?

 

[aragorn]

the ICM delete module.

You said pin 1 went to cylinder 1. If you look at the diagram i posted "t5/1" on the ICM connects to T4/4 which goes to coil 4. similarly pin 2 goes to 3, 4 goes to 2 and 5 goes to 1. maybe you've just started counting from the wrong end?

 

[Andreas DB]

It is as shown in the picutre i.e. the one i have drawn the number 1 on is the closest to the bulkhead and number 5 is the closest to the headlights.

I think the numbers written inside the connector is the other way around, I am sorry for the confusion, I will double check tomorrow.

Thanks for the help so far anyway!

 

[aragorn]

Yeh you should always use the pin numbering on the connector, otherwise it gets confusing.


My moneys still on the coils not being installed properly, especially now i notice that the coils you've bought are 1.8T coils.

The TFSI coils people usually use for these conversions are longer, which means they stick up a small amount even with the adaptor plates installed. The standard 1.8T coils arent really long enough to be used with the adaptor plates, and yours look to be sticking out really quite far.

 

[Andreas DB]

This is how I test for spark, the spark plugs are touching the valvecover for ground, and I get someone to crank the car while I watch the sparkplugs (now i got a sparktester which gives a light, as seen in post #10).
It does not give spark with these coils, but it does with the old ones and the icm.

I do agree that they seem a bit short, but they should give spark when i'm testing them, because the sparkplugs are properly connected with the coils.

 

[aragorn]

can you try some known working coils?

 

[Andreas DB]

Just bought one coil, but there is some serious quattro weather, so I'll have to postpone testing a bit.


Edit: new coil had spark, the beru ones where defect.

 

[Andreas DB]

The coil i bought yesterday had spark, so today i bought 3 new ones. Installed them and tried to start, the car cranked really slow and did not fire up.

I charged the battery for a couple of hours and tried again, still slow cranks. So i called a friend and had him help me jumpstart the car. It still cranked really slow, but fired up for a couple of seconds, slow and weak until it died.

Decided to test for spark on the valvecover with the new coils, no spark.
Tried with the old coils and the icm connected, they also had no spark (I tested both sets of coils while jumpstarting, so it should have power (radio, headlights etc. where working fine even when just on battery power)).

 

[aragorn]

If the ICM inverts the signal, its possible that running with the ICM installed will burn out the electronic coils. I've never looked into it too much but the coils are designed to be turned on for a very short time, and then off for a long time to recover. If the signal ends up inverted, the coil ends up on for a long time, which draws huge current and can either blow the coils or fuse.

Did you run the new coils with the ICM?

If your lucky, it'll have just blown the fuse driving the coil packs.

 

[Andreas DB]

I've never runned the icm with any of the new coils, just the old 3 pin coils.

I think I have burned the starter motor from when I where looking for spark.
I also forgot to disconnect the injectors the first couple of times I was looking for spark, so the sparkplugs sparkplugs were black and wet.

 

[Andreas DB]

Swapped the battery, and the car runs, icm delete complete!

But the car still has a rough idle and somtimes "chokes" while driving. could it be the cam- or crank pos sensor?

 

[Oranoco]

I'd try a set of plugs or at least clean up the current ones as you said you fouled them up with fuel previously.

 

[Andreas DB]

Sparkplugs are new and clean.

checked for codes, looked like this first:

5 Faults Found:
16487 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70)
P0103 - 35-10 - Signal too High - Intermittent
17735 - Knock-Control: Cylinder 3
P1327 - 35-10 - Regulation Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
16705 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
P0321 - 35-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
16518 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1
P0134 - 35-10 - No Activity - Intermittent
00532 - Supply Voltage B+
07-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent
Readiness: N/A

Cleared codes, and tried again:

1 Faults Found:
16705 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
P0321 - 35-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Readiness: N/A

I will change the crank sensor, and clean the maf (I have a k&n filter).
I also had a code on the rear abs sensor, but i already knew about that, I can use a front or a fwd rear sensor right?
(the rear quattro one seems hard to get/expensive).