Facelift To facelift or to wait for the next facelift that is the question

[Masslob]

After some prompting by our esteemed colleague Jassy, i did some research and the A3 line is due a refresh in 2019, now my lease is up in 2018. So here is my dilemma

Assuming you are on PCH and have to give back your s3 1 whole year before the next refresh (eg Oct 2018)

Would you:

1. Get another facelift knowing it will overlap the 2019 refresh by a year (Assuming your min lease is 2 yrs)
2. Get another interim car and wait for the 2019 refresh before you dip back into the S3 goodness
3. Go carless for 9 months

 

[TYb]

After some prompting by our esteemed colleague Jassy, i did some research and the A3 line is due a refresh in 2019, now my lease is up in 2018. So here is my dilemma

Assuming you are on PCH and have to give back your s3 1 whole year before the next refresh (eg Oct 2018)

Would you:

1. Get another facelift knowing it will overlap the 2019 refresh by a year (Assuming your min lease is 2 yrs)
2. Get another interim car and wait for the 2019 refresh before you dip back into the S3 goodness
3. Go carless for 9 months

I would look at a 12 month lease, places like stable vehicle contracts have some cracking deals.

You'd expect that the next generation A3/S3 will make some big leaps.

 

[OST]

As above or go careless for 9 months....save the cash if you dont need it

 

[Jassyo06]

Expect the ALL new S3 to be available 2 years this September l

 

[KenL]

Will the new A3 be released before the S3 or do they both launch at the same time?

 

[Masslob]

I would look at a 12 month lease, places like stable vehicle contracts have some cracking deals.

You'd expect that the next generation A3/S3 will make some big leaps.

Indeed, i compare to BMW and Merc still and Audi/VW way ahead of the curve with tech. Only Tesla really have the advantage on VAG

 

[Jassyo06]

Will the new A3 be released before the S3 or do they both launch at the same time?

The all new A3 should be available 5 months before the S3 that's the way it went with the 8v

 

[Daz Auto]

So many things to consider.

I have read a few articles that are expecting a brand new A3 in 2019. It should be announced Oct 2018. So that is around the same time your lease ends. Allowing for build times, it could be 2020 until the S3 arrives in great numbers. Also, there is no guarantee the new car will be announced then. It could be launched a year later to coincide with the new 2020 EU emission standards.

There can also be issues with completely new cars. Then there is the fact that it will like look very similar to current car. I doubt if there will be as large a leap in performance as we saw this generation.

If it was me, I would opt for a 2 year lease.

 

[OST]

So many things to consider.

I have read a few articles that are expecting a brand new A3 in 2019. It should be announced Oct 2018. So that is around the same time your lease ends. Allowing for build times, it could be 2020 until the S3 arrives in great numbers. Also, there is no guarantee the new car will be announced then. It could be launched a year later to coincide with the new 2020 EU emission standards.

There can also be issues with completely new cars. Then there is the fact that it will like look very similar to current car. I doubt if there will be as large a leap in performance as we saw this generation.

If it was me, I would opt for a 2 year lease.

I agree with the majority of this but as for more performance coming with a new S3..thats a no brainer. It partly the reason as to why they have so vastly improved the RS3, to provided a larger gap between the two I guess, in terms of performance!

 

[Tom.H]

I agree with the majority of this but as for more performance coming with a new S3..thats a no brainer. It partly the reason as to why they have so vastly improved the RS3, to provided a larger gap between the two I guess, in terms of performance!

I reckon maybe 350bhp

 

[Daveotto]

I reckon maybe 350bhp

I am not sure the new S3 will have any more BHP, days of ever increasing output which is totally unusable are numbered. Certainly any increase would be far short of the 40 BHP you are predicting.

I expect more focus on tech and efficiency (particularly in light of diesegate) in preference to more muscle

 

[Spinstorm]

I’m confident that the new A3 and S3 would be available right away just like with the facelift Golf and R. It makes no sense to delay it from. Business perspective.

 

[Ozmosis]

Personally I expect some sort of electric assistance in the next generation... So while the outright power may not increase massively, the delivery of that power will be better.

Or I could be way off the mark

 

[Daz Auto]

I’m confident that the new A3 and S3 would be available right away just like with the facelift Golf and R. It makes no sense to delay it from. Business perspective.

Never say never, but there is a big difference between producing a facelift S3 and whole new S3. Will there be a new MQB Evo chassis, new suspensions, new haldex 6, new engine incorporating the Porsche variable geometry turbo, new S-tronic? There are reasons why the S3 may take an extra 6-12 months to develop and test.

 

[Terminator x]

Expect the ALL new S3 to be available 2 years this September l

and the RS3?!

TX.

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[Mark Anthony]

Never say never, but there is a big difference between producing a facelift S3 and whole new S3. Will there be a new MQB Evo chassis, new suspensions, new haldex 6, new engine incorporating the Porsche variable geometry turbo, new S-tronic? There are reasons why the S3 may take an extra 6-12 months to develop and test.

The new VGT is already on the new 1.5 TFSI

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[Mark_86]

I'd like to see the next S3 come with some sort of hybrid system... I think this is the way forward for performance cars now.

 

[Mark Anthony]

I'd like to see the next S3 come with some sort of hybrid system... I think this is the way forward for performance cars now.

Get ready for the purist revolt...

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[Mark_86]

Get ready for the purist revolt...

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ha, if you want purist performance, then buy a Megane RS275 Trophy If I had spare money and a driveway slot, I would.

 

[Mark Anthony]

ha, if you want purist performance, then buy a Megane RS275 Trophy If I had spare money and a driveway slot, I would.

Purist on a budget would be a M140i



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[Ozmosis]

Real purest would be a Lotus Elise Sprint....

 

[Daz Auto]

The new VGT is already on the new 1.5 TFSI

I know there was lots of talk about it. However, since launch I see no mention of VGT. Here is the VW press release discussing some of the engine features - https://www.volkswagen-media-servic...ec13158edd433c6630f5ac445da?p_p_auth=alNsqUO3

It was also suppose to use the miller or atkins cycle - same as the Audi 1.8 TFSI engine.

Maybe they are saving this tech for the next gen models in 2019/20

 

[Mark Anthony]

I know there was lots of talk about it. However, since launch I see no mention of VGT. Here is the VW press release discussing some of the engine features - https://www.volkswagen-media-servic...ec13158edd433c6630f5ac445da?p_p_auth=alNsqUO3

It was also suppose to use the miller or atkins cycle - same as the Audi 1.8 TFSI engine.

Maybe they are saving this tech for the next gen models in 2019/20

Oh contrare...

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/future-tech/volkswagens-new-15-litre-petrol-very-clever



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[wideboybloke]

So does it have VGT or not? Wife has a 1.5 tfsi arriving any day now (just waiting for the call) and she will be desperate to know. Or possibly not.

 

[Daz Auto]

Oh contrare...

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/future-tech/volkswagens-new-15-litre-petrol-very-clever

... that article is over a year old - April 2016. I could find a dozen articles from last year talking about VGT. However, this year I see no mention of it.

From last years articles they said VGT reduced turbo lag, increased torque and fuel economy. If the engine has it, I find it strange that VW are not using VGT as a major selling point this year. The VW media article from March 2017 just referred to it is a 'compact turbo engine'.

 

[Chris43]

To most people VGT is just another TLA, that doesn't mean too much. Only people who hang about in places like this get excited by such things.
The articles maybe a year old but but engine development is not an overnight process so chances are if VW announced it last year it has to in use else they would look pretty stupid.

 

[Daz Auto]

So does it have VGT or not? Wife has a 1.5 tfsi arriving any day now (just waiting for the call) and she will be desperate to know. Or possibly not.

I have done a Google search from January 2017. I have used 1.5 TSI EVO, 1.5 TFSI EVO, EA211 engine and variable geometry turbo or variable turbine geometry. Autocar is the only article that I can find this year. However, it was 1 month before the VW press release. It mentions both VGT and Miller cycle, but seems like a copy and paste job from last year. All other recent articles talk about the ACT/COD which was mentioned in the VW media press release, but do not mention VGT. This has lead me to suspect that VGT is not a feature of the new 1.5 engine.

However, many of the road test reviews mention that the new engine has no turbo lag. This was one of the advantages of VGT. Unless they have managed to reduce turbo lag by some other method.

I don't understand why so many articles talked about VGT last year. However, since the engine has actually launched there is no mention of it.

 

[Mark Anthony]

My dealer has driven one and assures me that it is a VGT with the torque curve closer to diesel than classic petrol with with zero lag.

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[Daz Auto]

My dealer has driven one and assures me...

I'm sorry, but that is so funny.

As I said above, many road test reviews mention no turbo lag. None of them attribute it to VGT. It may be present, but it appears VAG have decided not to market the technology for some strange reason.

 

[Mark Anthony]

I'm sorry, but that is so funny.

As I said above, many road test reviews mention no turbo lag. None of them attribute it to VGT. It may be present, but it appears VAG have decided not to market the technology for some strange reason.

Marketed or not, those who care will know. The average Mr & Mrs Smith may not give a damn. I had to actually Google what what it was when I found out.

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[Bitzieee]

Marketed or not, those who care will know. The average Mr & Mrs Smith may not give a damn. I had to actually Google what what it was when I found out.

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There's so much technology on the cars which no one knows about and tbh, no one cares about.

I just spent 3 days at the VWGroup headquarters in Milton Keynes learning about different technology in the cars. They didn't mention VGT to be honest, but they did cover turbos. I found the towbars have the most interesting technology. You can have tow bars fitted for £400 by back streets, but the dealer charges £1500+, half the reason is the parts, and trained techs. But a lot of that goes into changing software on the car, they completely adapt the brake bias on the car to cope with the added weight to the rear. It's brilliant, but no one knows about this kind of technology, not even the salesman

 

[Daz Auto]

There's so much technology on the cars which no one knows about and tbh, no one cares about.

I just spent 3 days at the VWGroup headquarters in Milton Keynes learning about different technology in the cars. They didn't mention VGT to be honest, but they did cover turbos. I found the towbars have the most interesting technology. You can have tow bars fitted for £400 by back streets, but the dealer charges £1500+, half the reason is the parts, and trained techs. But a lot of that goes into changing software on the car, they completely adapt the brake bias on the car to cope with the added weight to the rear. It's brilliant, but no one knows about this kind of technology, not even the salesman

I remember reading what the swing down tow bar could do, in VW Driver magazine, while I was waiting to get my car serviced a few years ago.

It has been available in Europe for years and was gradually introduced on UK models. Unfortunately, it is not available on the S3 or Golf R. Probably due to the exhaust system. It is available with quattro on other models.

The tow bar is one of the options I have selected.

Did they mention the new Matrix LED lights? That technology really fascinates me. Thought I think the Mercedes Multi-beam LED looks like the best of the new headlights. I think it is Hella that are developing this technology for many manufactures. They have a youtube channel.

Audi Matrix LED -


Mercedes Multi-beam LED -


The new laser headlights look amazing too. Thought at 7-8K its going to be a while before the A3 gets them.

 

[Bitzieee]

I remember reading what the swing down tow bar could do, in VW Driver magazine, while I was waiting to get my car serviced a few years ago.

It has been available in Europe for years and was gradually introduced on UK models. Unfortunately, it is not available on the S3 or Golf R. Probably due to the exhaust system. It is available with quattro on other models.

The tow bar is one of the options I have selected.

Did they mention the new Matrix LED lights? That technology really fascinates me. Thought I think the Mercedes Multi-beam LED looks like the best of the new headlights. I think it is Hella that are developing this technology for many manufactures. They have a youtube channel.

Audi Matrix LED -


Mercedes Multi-beam LED -


The new laser headlights look amazing too. Thought at 7-8K its going to be a while before the A3 gets them.

They didn't really, they focused more on infotainment systems, and safety systems, and technology within the engine itself. I found it fascinating, the rest of the people on my course looked bored to death.

The tow bars are hard to sell because no one understands whats actually involved, all they see is a towbar. And half of that reason is poor salesman, but also most customers couldn't care less, they want the badge and look for the cheapest possible price...

But I can confirm that the technology in these cars are absolutely top end. VWG are the leaders in technological advancements and its great to be part of it. It's also impressive how cheap you get the technology for considering what goes into it. Although we all don't like to admit it.

 

[Masslob]

well i thought VAG were ahead if the curve with in car tech, seems Merc have upped their game....

http://mashable.com/2017/07/19/mercedes-2018-s-class/#SeQ86PdzjGq2

 

[TYb]

well i thought VAG were ahead if the curve with in car tech, seems Merc have upped their game....

http://mashable.com/2017/07/19/mercedes-2018-s-class/#SeQ86PdzjGq2

I think the S class has always been ahead of the game, Mercedes have always used it to release new tech which the market tends to follow.

 

[Daz Auto]

They didn't really, they focused more on infotainment systems, and safety systems, and technology within the engine itself. I found it fascinating, the rest of the people on my course looked bored to death.

The tow bars are hard to sell because no one understands whats actually involved, all they see is a towbar. And half of that reason is poor salesman, but also most customers couldn't care less, they want the badge and look for the cheapest possible price...

The infotainment systems don't interest me much. However, I am very interested in any technology that makes the driving experience better. Also, when looking at the options list I like to research and understand the technology myself. My experience is that VAG do not make detailed information easily available.

I found my old post on this forum about the tow bar from June 21, 2015 -

I was reading some issues of the VW Magazine while I was waiting for my Golf to be serviced. One of the articles showed a Mk7 GTD that had been fitted with a swing down tow bar. It is available in europe. Apparently has to be a special order/request from the UK.

I showed the article to the sales person. He showed me the tow bar working on a Touareg. Then said it was not available on the Golf. I mentioned the article in the magazine. He checked and said it was not possible. I politely suggested he read the magazine.

The article discussed all the things the tow bar could do. It would change the electronic stability control, activate alarm if disconnected, change external and internal indicator/light operation and simply fold away when not needed. It looks like a fairly smart tow bar.

There is a short youtube clip showing this tow bar. Search 'golf rear tow hook'. Does anyone know if this type of tow bar is available on any Audi? Q5 maybe? Or available in Europe?

 

[Daz Auto]

Marketed or not, those who care will know. The average Mr & Mrs Smith may not give a damn. I had to actually Google what what it was when I found out.

I was talking about the VGT a year ago - http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/facelift-decisions-2-0-tdi-or-1-4-cod.282059/

I think your dealer may be going on old information. Remember - advice from a salesman is no advice!

 

[Flying Scotsman]

I will tip my toe in on this conversation. This what I would like on a 2020 S3
1) modest bhp increase
2) almost zero turbo lag
3) a more supple suspension
4) more road feel feedback on electric power steering
5) 40-50mm more rear legroom and headroom, but do not increase overall width and length by more than 25mm in width and 50mm in length.
6) retain the pop up MMI or integrate into the dash...No I-Pad info system
7) better seats.
Technology and nanny systems, I could not give a rat's ar*e about.