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Litchfield fettled RS3
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teslaboy
Mythos black RS3 8v FL
This was in Pistonheads a few weeks back.
Insane and great value.
But I won't be risking the warranty, not yet at least!
Insane and great value.
But I won't be risking the warranty, not yet at least!
Well Litchfield have gone and blown it.
The original price when they released their stage 2 combined package was £1450 all in which was a very attractive price and had the potential of luring customers away from their preferred VAG tuner (APR / MRC / Revo etc). That's shot up by over £600 over the last month to just over £2050. Litchfield have now lost their USP over the other tuners.
In addition to that, their map doesn't seem all that great. Forget the headline figures, if memory serves me correct, the standard car dyno'd at 437bhp and the modified Stage 2 car dyno'd at 504bhp. The delta change is 67bhp so hardly earth shattering. The same car on a tighter dyno might only be giving 465-470bhp.
They should stick to tuning Datsuns. Really disappointed that they've increased the Stage 2 price by as much as they have done. Cheeky beggars also charge an extra £108 for a before and after dyno session aswell.
You've blown it Ian (If you're reading).
The original price when they released their stage 2 combined package was £1450 all in which was a very attractive price and had the potential of luring customers away from their preferred VAG tuner (APR / MRC / Revo etc). That's shot up by over £600 over the last month to just over £2050. Litchfield have now lost their USP over the other tuners.
In addition to that, their map doesn't seem all that great. Forget the headline figures, if memory serves me correct, the standard car dyno'd at 437bhp and the modified Stage 2 car dyno'd at 504bhp. The delta change is 67bhp so hardly earth shattering. The same car on a tighter dyno might only be giving 465-470bhp.
They should stick to tuning Datsuns. Really disappointed that they've increased the Stage 2 price by as much as they have done. Cheeky beggars also charge an extra £108 for a before and after dyno session aswell.
You've blown it Ian (If you're reading).
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Pistonheads article here dated 21st Dec...
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/driven/litchfield-audi-rs3-driven/37295
Stage 2 package with Intercooler/Filter and Map was being offered at £1448.
You would have to be off your head to visit Litchfield over MRC considering the 2 tuners are within an hour of each other.
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/driven/litchfield-audi-rs3-driven/37295
Stage 2 package with Intercooler/Filter and Map was being offered at £1448.
You would have to be off your head to visit Litchfield over MRC considering the 2 tuners are within an hour of each other.
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teslaboy
Mythos black RS3 8v FL
Comparison dyno here....
As you can see, the standard car is doing just under 440bhp (It was established on facebook @ 437bhp)
Stage 1 increase to 485bhp (+48bhp)
On another dyno that is not affiliated with the tuner, that 48bhp increase may be the car jumping from the standard 394bhp upto 442bhp.
I'll try and get a plot of an MRC car for comparison...
Okay....
MRC Stage 1 - 394ps upto 476ps. Delta increase of 82ps
TTRS... 393ps upto 478ps. Delta increase of 85ps.
Forget the dyno figures themselves (dyno lottery), MRC are starting off at a much lower baseline, it's the delta before vs after that is important.
MRC do not charge a dyno session before and after either. It's part of their all inclusive price.
As you can see, the standard car is doing just under 440bhp (It was established on facebook @ 437bhp)
Stage 1 increase to 485bhp (+48bhp)
On another dyno that is not affiliated with the tuner, that 48bhp increase may be the car jumping from the standard 394bhp upto 442bhp.
I'll try and get a plot of an MRC car for comparison...
Okay....
MRC Stage 1 - 394ps upto 476ps. Delta increase of 82ps
TTRS... 393ps upto 478ps. Delta increase of 85ps.
Forget the dyno figures themselves (dyno lottery), MRC are starting off at a much lower baseline, it's the delta before vs after that is important.
MRC do not charge a dyno session before and after either. It's part of their all inclusive price.
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After reading the early Facebook write up I agree with Leo-RS.......
MRC do seem to produce a lot better results.
Fancy yanking up the price too
is that because of a fancy magazine feature .....
MRC do seem to produce a lot better results.
Fancy yanking up the price too
is that because of a fancy magazine feature .....
Fancy yanking up the price too
I suspect so,
Pistonheads
Autocar
I’m sure Evo is coming soon
People can make up their own minds though. If I owned a Nissan GTR I wouldn’t take it to MRC for tuning. I’d take it to Litchfield.
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My PFL that MRC have remapped is nothing short of sensational now. If at some point in the future I get a FL RS3 or TTRS it will be going back to them.
As a novice at the tuning game, I do however have a question...
How can some tuners get so much more/less from a remap? Surely there's only so many things you can tinker with (fuel/air/boost and so on) so why don't they all get more or less the same, seeing as they must all be of a certain expertise?
As a novice at the tuning game, I do however have a question...
How can some tuners get so much more/less from a remap? Surely there's only so many things you can tinker with (fuel/air/boost and so on) so why don't they all get more or less the same, seeing as they must all be of a certain expertise?
PanamaS3
Registered User
I think its because there are so many variables DOC and also each car can be slightly different depending on age and how you drive it....seems to me though that bottom line the best results come from custom tuning for your car, but saying that I'm pretty happy with my off the shelf APR tune
To be fair, I think APR / MRC / Revo and even Custom Code (Running well on the US Iroz cars) will more than likely all be very similar in outputs and on a Stage 1 and Stage 2 the differences on the road are likely to be fairly negligible. Couple of car lengths between best and worst.
Each tuner will have their own techniques, whether that be more boost but less timing, less boost but more timing, how lean or rich they run their maps, how best they control EGT’s and IAT’s etc.
If you read the marketing guff from APR on this new engine, this ECU seems to be a very complex beast so in order to extract the best performance you first need to master the ins and outs of the ECU. A little bit like if you fitted a Syvecs unit, you have more control over boost, fuel and ignition and are able to extract even more performance over the factory ECU.
There’s no denying Litchfield’s are a top notch tuner, they have a great reputation in the GTR market, the peak figures they’ve produced here with an intercooler are also good (Altho I have pointed out the high starting point) I just think with the steep jump up in the price here, Litchfield have scored an own goal. £1450 as they first advertised would have tempted quite a few people to give them a shot but can’t see anyone jumping at the new £2050 ‘package’ price though.
Anyway it’s another option and I look forward to seeing what figures they post when they sort their exhaust package out.
Each tuner will have their own techniques, whether that be more boost but less timing, less boost but more timing, how lean or rich they run their maps, how best they control EGT’s and IAT’s etc.
If you read the marketing guff from APR on this new engine, this ECU seems to be a very complex beast so in order to extract the best performance you first need to master the ins and outs of the ECU. A little bit like if you fitted a Syvecs unit, you have more control over boost, fuel and ignition and are able to extract even more performance over the factory ECU.
There’s no denying Litchfield’s are a top notch tuner, they have a great reputation in the GTR market, the peak figures they’ve produced here with an intercooler are also good (Altho I have pointed out the high starting point) I just think with the steep jump up in the price here, Litchfield have scored an own goal. £1450 as they first advertised would have tempted quite a few people to give them a shot but can’t see anyone jumping at the new £2050 ‘package’ price though.
Anyway it’s another option and I look forward to seeing what figures they post when they sort their exhaust package out.
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PanamaS3
Registered User
Doesn't this price include intake and intercooler....plus the tune? If so, seems like they did an initial cheap price for early adopters to jump on and now there's more players in the market the price is back to what wouldn't lose them money....
It was a very attractive deal for sure.
Intercooler and tune yes. No intake, but a panel filter upgrade. Retail on the IC is £1k, panel filter £35.
They were essentially offering their tune and Labour for very cheap for probably the reason you have mentioned, an initial headline price for the early bird.
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"That being said, the upgrades are entirely reversible and Litchfield hasn’t yet had any run-ins with Audi’s warranty department" good luck with that
TX.
TX.
Ed_rx7
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I'm confused! My RS3 is tuned by MRC and is sensational. I was saying that any new car I get would go back to MRC, not to Litchfield?
Litchfield have a great reputation. Tuning Datsuns as you say. They were tuning Impreza's way before then, and producing there own incarnations of the STI's, with their T20 & T25 cars that back then would blow most cars into the weeds.
Then they went to GT-R's and produced a great reputation there. What do they have to do to prove they are good? Their track record speak for themselves. I'd rather take an RS3 to them then just another REVO franchised dealer. But as I wouldn't want to lose a warranty on a £50k plus car, I'd not bother anyway. It would be nice if Audi appointed a tuning partner that was warranty safe like the do in Germany, or indeed as Ford do over here.
teslaboy
Mythos black RS3 8v FL
Audi did have a warranty approved tuning partner a few years back in Richter Sports of Milton Keynes.
I had an S3 remapped thru Richter via M25 Audi and jolly good it was too !!!
I had an S3 remapped thru Richter via M25 Audi and jolly good it was too !!!
From the evidence we have so far in these dyno plots...
Litchfield increases Stage 1 power by 48bhp and if Stage 2, by 67bhp
MRC increases Stage 1 power by 82ps (81bhp), Stage 2 unknown.
Did MRC dyno low? (394ps as opposed to 400ps) ......Weak example and barely run in?
Did Litchfield dyno high? (437bhp as opposed to 394bhp).....Strong example and suitably run in?
You would need a lot more samples to compare like for like.
Still very early days.
Litchfield increases Stage 1 power by 48bhp and if Stage 2, by 67bhp
MRC increases Stage 1 power by 82ps (81bhp), Stage 2 unknown.
Did MRC dyno low? (394ps as opposed to 400ps) ......Weak example and barely run in?
Did Litchfield dyno high? (437bhp as opposed to 394bhp).....Strong example and suitably run in?
You would need a lot more samples to compare like for like.
Still very early days.
Ed_rx7
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Agreed ... sooo many variables... that’s the issue with comparing dynos.... even the way the cars are loaded up (run and resistance on the rollers) on the dyno has an impact
Like someone said earlier need to get both compared on an independent dyno .... one after the other..... that’s the only way your gonna tell
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Dont forget the torque figures too. MRC , REVO and APR stge 2+ all have better torque results (despite the supposed low reading Litcho Maha dyno they use). I believe that Litchfield actually don't pile in too much boost which is no bad thing for engine/turbo longevity. Other tuners do wind it up a bit on stage 2 and have been pushing more and more over the past twelve months.
Regardless of all the difference of opinions about dyno claims and better power gains etc etc, the cardinal sin for me is when I see tuners claiming their re-map produces big gains using the base power and torque figures from the factory - they rarely show what the car was really producing in standard form before their mods added. The tuning box manufacturers/promoters are guilty of this, even in Litchfield add above they have claimed an 86lb/ft gain over stock ( Audi figures of 480nm or 353lbs/ft) but we know and can see that the cars are running way more than this in standard spec. Its just mis-leading potential customers.
At least MRC will put your car on a dyno in standard spec, give it a full health check and plot the power and torque output BEFORE applying any tuning mods and mapping. At least you see what you are getting as a before and after comparison, no crazy bulsh*t claims.
A bit off topic but my MK2 TTRS was APR stage 1 and 'only' 417bhp and that was ballistic fast so I can't even imagine what these 500bhp RS3's are like on the road.
Hoping my standard FL RS3 will be nearly as quick as the TTRS was... Then I'll be happy for a couple of years before a trip to MRC.
Hoping my standard FL RS3 will be nearly as quick as the TTRS was... Then I'll be happy for a couple of years before a trip to MRC.
