How did you come to the conclusion of #2? Or injectors? Just by ruling things out?
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P0171 system too lean
- Thread starter blondieee
- Start date
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Firstly i had misfire on #2 showing in vcd's , then i tried everything i could do , change plugs, coils , but then i left with mechanic and i guess he did all other tests , ie checked loom, compression, etc and as these where fine he eventually got down to the injectors and changed out #2 then intermediate misfire went and so did my #2 misfire problem , all in including part i was £550
Well I'm going to strip my inlet manifold tomorrow and get my Injectors tested. I kinda was thinking it must be fuel, so will see how I get on with that. Fingers crossed!
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As far as was lead to believe from my mechanic you will need a special tool to remove the injectors
All stripped and injectors out. No special tool needed.
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Cleaned and tested, and new seals. Not put back together yet, as I still have my inlet to clean, but they all tested out all good. So it's 100% not that either, but I wasn't too fussed as it needed done.
But, I am back to this again I think. Will let you know once I start it back up.
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But, I am back to this again I think. Will let you know once I start it back up.
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How did you test your injectors , did you send them away to have spray pattern checked , plus i would have thought you wouldn't know if they where A ok until all put back together and engine fired up
They got tested on a machine, i drove to the one 50 miles away to get them checked after I took them out. They were in perfect condition, spray pattern perfect, got new seals and got them cleaned but there was no difference to the flow or spray pattern before and after.
I guess, will find out tomorrow.
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I guess, will find out tomorrow.
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Re-reading this thread, what do you mean in post #8 by 'diverted to the rear cam outlet'
For me it's now a process of elimination:
- Replace PCV with factory
- Refit stock intake
- Check inlet and outlet of FMIC
Failing that, get it into a specialist...
For me it's now a process of elimination:
- Replace PCV with factory
- Refit stock intake
- Check inlet and outlet of FMIC
Failing that, get it into a specialist...
I don't even know why I said that in relation to what was going on at the time, i thought someone asked me how it breathed, and I was just saying that cause it has the delete it gets redirected as such to the turbo inlet via the back of the cam case.
It's worth mentioning things I'm questioning
Code p119a had it since I got the car really, only happens when I'm low on fuel. From what I can find it's normal.. but may be points towards something not working right? (Not the sensor as I changed this with a working one and it's fine)
My engine at idle is under no vaccum at all. Normal?
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Also my spark plugs were put in new a couple weeks ago, and it looks like I'm running rich.
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Did this today, but no different. Really don't see what else it could be. I've literally ruled everything out.
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This is an important clue. The engine breathes through the charcoal canister and the fuel tank does the same. Usually you get a "P0441 EVAP incorrect flow" but not always. Running rich is one of the symptoms. Erratic idle also.
There are 3 valves in that system, the fuel cap being one of them. You should be able to blow through the charcoal canister without any effort (take out the pipe coming from n80 valve). If not, leave the pipe disconected and see if this improves something. Also the valve in the picture must be checked.
Attachments
Didn’t realise it was predominantly when low on fuel - is there a smell of fuel?
N80 valve is a good call. Has fuel filter been changed? It’s starting to feel like money will be thrown at parts to resolve this...
I had a problem with this code and the garage changed the charcoal canister as the charcoal had disintegrated and was blocking the solenoid valve
It didn't cure my problem but it might be worth looking at..Mine was just a build up of carbon crap on the valves , cured with a hydro steam clean thing.
It didn't cure my problem but it might be worth looking at..Mine was just a build up of carbon crap on the valves , cured with a hydro steam clean thing.
That's just that code, the p0171 is all the time.
No, no smell of fuel I don't think.
N80 has been changed as has the charcoal canister on the last 6 month's.
Yeah, I'm starting to think that too. I went down to my revo dealer to get my settings put back in, and it did make a difference doesn't run quite as lean but still majorly too high over 40% on wot and about 17% on idle. I asked about diagnostics but they didn't seem to want to as said I've checked all the things they would.
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I walnut blasted my valves yesterday, so don't think it's that either.
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I have already disconnected this and the car runs the same with it disconnected. Came up with an error when I plugged the line to the fuel tank at the n80. Got a new n80 as it wasn't holding, and the double check valve was checked when I had the inlet manifold off. I'm running lean according to the lambda, but looking at my spark plugs they are black.
The pipe coming from the check valve has no vaccum in it, or maybe do little that I can't feel it? My turbo inlet pipes, which I disconnected to check that it wasn't anything to do with the pcv system have no vaccum either, and the car literally does not care if they are open to atmosphere or not, it runs no differently which I found strange?
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There is vacuum in evap system but notably only on deceleration when is equalizing pressure. If n80 is ok, charcoal canister is ok and that valve was checked, the problem is not evap related.
At startup only pre cat sensor is used by Ecu to calculate air fuel ratio. After a while (temperature related) post cat sensor is used for fine tuning.
You got an exhaust leak between those two, bad sensor/s or bad Ecu.
At startup only pre cat sensor is used by Ecu to calculate air fuel ratio. After a while (temperature related) post cat sensor is used for fine tuning.
You got an exhaust leak between those two, bad sensor/s or bad Ecu.
I have checked my pre cat sensor. And I don't have a cat, but the problem does it even when it has just turned to closed loop.
The other car we have also has a pcv delete but has vaccum at the oil cap and dipstick at idle. I don't tho.
Well, there aren't to many variables. You are running a tuned map I presume. ECU does the mixture based on a quantity of air measured by MAF and petrol measured through fuel pressure sensors . It is confirmed by lambda sensors. When you tune it, the tuner messes with those maps in order to increase the fuel along with boost in order to prevent running lean as this could melt the pistons. So, as you are running a tuned map, your tuner must get this done. Please read this:
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Fuel_Trim_Info
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Fuel_Trim_Info
Hi I have already done this myself. My LTFT sits at 25% And my short term still adds more on WOT. At idle it sits about 17-22%. I spoke to the tuner yesterday as it had a Revo stage 2 in it and he said that it's not possible that it's causing this issue. He put my settings back in which are F9, B9, T4 .. personally I don't think he really knows what he's talking about said you only change timing from 9, and I know that's not true. Also said that 9 is the richest settng which I believe 9 is actually the leanest setting for this particular set up.
From ECU point of view you are running lean.
-If it were a vacuum leak you should be worse on idle and this is not your case.
-Clogged injectors - you said those are verified.
-Fuel line/pressure restriction. This could be possible but you say your spark plugs are black. In this case I see 2 options:
Bad fuel pressure sensor or bad map.
You must be 100% sure that lambda sensor and MAF are ok!
-If it were a vacuum leak you should be worse on idle and this is not your case.
-Clogged injectors - you said those are verified.
-Fuel line/pressure restriction. This could be possible but you say your spark plugs are black. In this case I see 2 options:
Bad fuel pressure sensor or bad map.
You must be 100% sure that lambda sensor and MAF are ok!
RTech have posted on FB that they had a car in with fuel trims at 25%, caused by a bad map. Possibly the REVO?
I would be inclined to go with the map too - running max on fuel and boost is not always the best option. I know you've reverted back to stock but you are catless and the ecu will not like that and adjust to protect the engine (usually rich). Revo is not the best map for these cars - where are you located?
I'm located in Scotland, the Revo was in the car and I plan on making a journey to R-tech in the new year as I think revo suck. The settings put back in definately made a difference for the better, my fuel trim was 50% combined without the settings on WOT. I have ordered a fuel pressure sensor it should be here tomorrow, and then I'm gonna swap out the fuel pump to check it's definately nothing to do with this. I've been logging my fuel pressure and it seems to be all over the place where as the other 2 cars with this engine sits very steady... it's always around about requested but drops so quickly where the other 2 drop slowly.. it's holding after engine is turned off so I would think I could rule out the return valve? If not I'm thinking the map is the only other thing.
Also the guy who put the settings In said it's always 9 for fuel and boost, whereas I know a lot with uprated fuel pumps run lower fuel.. he said definately not!
I paid £150 to get the settings set when I got the car.Start with the new sensor first. I don't think it's the pump. The logged pressure should be steady. Also you really need a tuner not a "software uploader".
Unfortunately thats the only Revo garage, other one is about 100 miles, if I put the new fuel pressure sensor in and it makes no difference how would I go about checking it's the map? Getting it taken out altogether?
I've heard revo don't revert to a stock map when they remove their map. You need to bring forward your trip to R-tech and they will put a proper stock map back on and run some tests on the car before they map it. I think this is the only way forward.
BTW, did you check your cam follower for wear? Odd that your fuel pressure is all over the place - can you post some VCDS logs with the following blocks; 003 (throttle/ignition timing), 118 (boost) & 230 (fuel pressure).
You might find someone local with a Revo SPS who can lower the boost / fuel settings to see if this makes any difference?
BTW, did you check your cam follower for wear? Odd that your fuel pressure is all over the place - can you post some VCDS logs with the following blocks; 003 (throttle/ignition timing), 118 (boost) & 230 (fuel pressure).
You might find someone local with a Revo SPS who can lower the boost / fuel settings to see if this makes any difference?
Ok I ill call them when I'm off and see what they say.
I will log some things tonight and post, and yes j have a brand new cam follower In it, was one of the first things that was checked. I have a shiny new cam from when the idiots who I bought the car from didn't bother putting one on at all.
Those revo figures are not base settings, they are just options to set with a SPs switch. They are a very small adjustment either way for the REVO map for track days. If this guy has a SPS switch then he can reset to std, Valet mode etc. the adjustments available via SPS are very small over the std Revo setting so owners cant put in a setting that damages the engine ( in theory) Put it this way you have FBT Fuel boost timing and i would be amazed if you have more that 5% adj overall of each.
I would think if you had a map failure it would be total not just one setting, If your guy is a Revo guy he can reload the map for free to your car. The map resets to Revo stock when you disconnect the battery and you would need an SPS switch to reset performance modes. i still think someone has made a mess of your PCV delete.
I would think if you had a map failure it would be total not just one setting, If your guy is a Revo guy he can reload the map for free to your car. The map resets to Revo stock when you disconnect the battery and you would need an SPS switch to reset performance modes. i still think someone has made a mess of your PCV delete.
These are the variables on the SPS according to the user manual;
Vario Range Guidelines DBW (drive by wire)
Mode 3 Boost adjustment:
Range 0:
Valet mode.
Range 1:
Stock Boost.
Range 6:
Performance Boost.
Range 9:
Aggressive Boost.
Mode 4 Fuel Adjustment:
Range 0:
Stock Air-Fuel Ratio (AFR).
Range 9:
Performance AFR.
Range 9 is the default performance setting. The fuel
adjustment is not available on all cars. Please refer to
our additional tuning guide for more information.
Mode 5 Timing Adjustment:
Range 0-3: 95 Ron or 91 (RON+MON)/2 octane fuel.
Range 4-6: 98 Ron or 93 (RON+MON)/2 octane fuel.
Range 7-9: unleaded race fuel, octane over 100.
Vario Range Guidelines DBW (drive by wire)
Mode 3 Boost adjustment:
Range 0:
Valet mode.
Range 1:
Stock Boost.
Range 6:
Performance Boost.
Range 9:
Aggressive Boost.
Mode 4 Fuel Adjustment:
Range 0:
Stock Air-Fuel Ratio (AFR).
Range 9:
Performance AFR.
Range 9 is the default performance setting. The fuel
adjustment is not available on all cars. Please refer to
our additional tuning guide for more information.
Mode 5 Timing Adjustment:
Range 0-3: 95 Ron or 91 (RON+MON)/2 octane fuel.
Range 4-6: 98 Ron or 93 (RON+MON)/2 octane fuel.
Range 7-9: unleaded race fuel, octane over 100.
I've already disconnected the battery and it makes it worse. I also have checked the delete, and there is nothing wrong with it. I'm not sure how you can mess it up?
https://1drv.ms/x/s!AnDvQxsY08bsgh4u8XQXY_6Ttn5b
Ok I think this is it, between marker 3 and 4 is where I put the foot down.. I was driving so it's a big log, and I couldn't work out how to cut it all without the headers. Hopefully that's helpful.
Why don't you logged the specified vs actual boost? More interesting should have been AFR ratio in block 031. Those are missing.
Your rail pressure is spot on at idle -around 50 bar- and around 110bar this being stock requesting value. But also there are some requested 180 bar ?! Ok, maybe it could be around 130 or more with RS4 limiting valve but 180?!
I don't see problems on WOT. You have around 130 bar pressure, 2 bar boost with 220 g/s on MAF at 3840 rpm on WOT. If you are using an aftermarket intake the maf scaling is incorrect which makes your g/s irrelevant. It't true that is a low reading and using 0.8 rule would make around 280 hp based on max MAF reading alone. Read this topic related to max MAF value.
https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/whats-your-mapped-maf-g-s-readings.238567/
I still think is a map issue.
Your rail pressure is spot on at idle -around 50 bar- and around 110bar this being stock requesting value. But also there are some requested 180 bar ?! Ok, maybe it could be around 130 or more with RS4 limiting valve but 180?!
I don't see problems on WOT. You have around 130 bar pressure, 2 bar boost with 220 g/s on MAF at 3840 rpm on WOT. If you are using an aftermarket intake the maf scaling is incorrect which makes your g/s irrelevant. It't true that is a low reading and using 0.8 rule would make around 280 hp based on max MAF reading alone. Read this topic related to max MAF value.
https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/whats-your-mapped-maf-g-s-readings.238567/
I still think is a map issue.
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