Pinch bolt removal advice ??

[Tiger-G]

Hi,

It's one thing after another with my B8.5 Allroad

I had a knocking noise from the front when reversing onto the driveway, so checked the bushes and suspension to find both springs are snapped at the bottom . No problem I thought, so looked online how to replace them only to find out about the dreaded pinch bolt . What a crap design by Audi......grrrr !!. I took the car to three local garages......two said they wouldn't touch it, and one said they would have a go, but couldn't be responsible for any damage caused

Can anyone give me some good advice on how to get this pinch bolt out in one piece at home, and let me know of their experiences removing it ??

Cheers.

 

[RS5 JON]

I'm sure you can remove the strut from the inner top control arms, ( other end of control arm ) then there's no need to remove the pinch bolt. Front struts removed on my A4, A5 & S5 using this method, as far as I remember.

JG

 

[spartacus 68]

Audi have apparently revised the the pinch bolt slightly so it tapers.

I've been caught out twice with the same issue. Once going on holiday to the west coast. I couldn't shift it - so drove with a broken spring and hauled a boat too until I could get it fixed! Last time the spring broke I was on holiday, of course, no tools so had the Allroad recovered on a flatbed. Just watch the headlight level sensor on the N/S/F. Always replace in pairs - as you'll just stress the other spring.

Back to your current dilemma - Laser sell a tool specifically for the pinch bolt (5863 steering knuckle drift). I have used this in conjunction with a Laser air hammer. If you think you would use the tool - consider buying one and a decent compressor set-up. I bought mine specifically for this job and other suspension related issues and it's been invaluable. From memory - of course you'll need a spring compressor, Draper ones are very good. In addition I think you need a 18 or 20mm pass through socket for the top nut in conjunction with a 6mm allen key bit.

You can liberally spray the pinch-bolt with PlusGas and see if there's any movement or not with the nyloc nut removed. If it's seized, then heat, air hammer, heat air hammer until you get some movement on the bolt end, small turns. I'd avoid just hitting it - as that won't shift it, and you'll just mushroom the nut end. And you definitely don't want to be drilling this out.

Dave Sterl video showing it in action. Check out the aluminium corrosion and you'll see why lump hammers are ineffective.

 

[rum4mo]

I thought that taking that pinch bolt out was always the way to do this and was essential, I started preparing the pinch bolts on my old 2000 VW Passat 4Motion, although they had iron/steel uprights but same issue. When, a few months after me freeing up the offside pinch bolt, that side front spring snapped - (lucky eh?), the AA removed that pinch bolt when he yanked out that suspension unit to get a workshop to change springs. So, once I managed to free up the near side, I replaced that spring as well.

 

[ninjag]

Heat and a right angled air ratchet is what we used.

 

[rum4mo]

Initially I had plenty time on my hands to free them up, but that does not work for people needing to get them off "now".

I think that I gave each side maybe month of frequent feeding with proper release fluid after cleaning up around the bolts ends and the slots in the upright, then applying a fair bit of torque "each way", stopping when it felt that "that is enough for now", then re-applying more proper release fluid - that worked for both sides on a VW with same design but iron uprights, alloy uprights probably add in a lot more pain.

Maybe I should start doing this with my 2011 S4 and check now and again - to make my/someone's life easier when or if a spring breaks.

 

[spartacus 68]

Heat and a right angled air ratchet is what we used.

I worry with an air ratchet you just spin the bolt head off given torque, even if you used lowest setting?

I have read you can cut of bolt head, then use washers under the nut to draw the pinch bolt through when tightened. Not tried that version - but on paper it should work, but only if the corrosion is shocked into allowing the pinch bolt to move. The bolt head approach with a hand ratchet is approach I would take - as you're turning clockwise and anti-clockwise, just enough to rotate and free it off, then attack with an air hammer Heat is everyone's friend though, but chances are the upper links will be toast.

If budget was limitless, then Klann make a specific tool for this job. KL-0250-40, but not cheap at £645. https://www.autodoc.co.uk/gedore/13438202

 

[rum4mo]

It looks like the pictures associated with that Autodoc item are from a non Audi car, ie VW or Skoda that used the same design but with an iron - painted black, suspension upright!

Just an observation, that is all, just in case some people did not know that iron versions of these uprights existed on other VW Group marques.

 

[Hangn]

heat and an impact gun on the bolt. may as well replace all the arms if youre that far into it and jobs done

 

[ninjag]

I worry with an air ratchet you just spin the bolt head off given torque, even if you used lowest setting?

I have read you can cut of bolt head, then use washers under the nut to draw the pinch bolt through when tightened. Not tried that version - but on paper it should work, but only if the corrosion is shocked into allowing the pinch bolt to move. The bolt head approach with a hand ratchet is approach I would take - as you're turning clockwise and anti-clockwise, just enough to rotate and free it off, then attack with an air hammer Heat is everyone's friend though, but chances are the upper links will be toast.

If budget was limitless, then Klann make a specific tool for this job. KL-0250-40, but not cheap at £645. https://www.autodoc.co.uk/gedore/13438202

I'm not sure, it worked well for us and it's only rated at 60Nm. I remember the nut going back on and a spanner being wedged in then whacking with a mallet or something. We did use a lot of heat though and as we were replacing all the arms it didn't really matter about damaging them. We put red rubber grease on the new ones so hopefully next time it will be far easier.

This is the ratchet: https://www.screwfix.com/p/pcl-apt330-1-2-drive-air-ratchet/942HY?kpid=942HY&ds_rl=1244066

 

[Tiger-G]

I'm sure you can remove the strut from the inner top control arms, ( other end of control arm ) then there's no need to remove the pinch bolt. Front struts removed on my A4, A5 & S5 using this method, as far as I remember.

JG

I've been doing a bit of reading on Audi Facegroup groups, and a few people have mentioned this may be possible, but they don't go into too much detail on how to do it.

I don't want to use heat on it if I can help it, and it would be good to save the upper control arms.

You never know, I might just get lucky and they turn !!

(I'm never lucky)

 

[RS5 JON]

I've been doing a bit of reading on Audi Facegroup groups, and a few people have mentioned this may be possible, but they don't go into too much detail on how to do it.

I don't want to use heat on it if I can help it, and it would be good to save the upper control arms.

You never know, I might just get lucky and they turn !!

(I'm never lucky)

AFAIK, it's just a case of undoing the upper control arms from the opposite end of the pinch bolt end, that way the control arms are removed with the strut, still attached at the pinch bolt end.

JG

 

[Tiger-G]

AFAIK, it's just a case of undoing the upper control arms from the opposite end of the pinch bolt end, that way the control arms are removed with the strut, still attached at the pinch bolt end.

JG

If

AFAIK, it's just a case of undoing the upper control arms from the opposite end of the pinch bolt end, that way the control arms are removed with the strut, still attached at the pinch bolt end.

JG

Does anyone know what other things I have to do to get the job done this way ?? What needs to be unbolted, etc ?? Do I need to compress the spring while it's in place before removal, etc ??

Gonna have a proper look at it tomorrow.

 

[deezell]

If


Does anyone know what other things I have to do to get the job done this way ?? What needs to be unbolted, etc ?? Do I need to compress the spring while it's in place before removal, etc ??

Gonna have a proper look at it tomorrow.

Do you need to compress springs? Yes and as you had to ask, you've not compressed springs before. You absolutely have to have a decent spring compressor, cheaper types will fly off the compressed spring with any kind of disturbance. You could be injured very easily. When you see the complexity of shop presses, you'll realise that some diy ones are lethal. I had a Ford mondeo spring fully compressed to go back on a strut, and it flew with no warning. I was so cautious that I was positioning everything so I would be well out of any flight path. The compressor hook on one side just seemed to creep down the spring slope, and the coil bulged,then bang. Scary.

 

[Tiger-G]

Do you need to compress springs? Yes and as you had to ask, you've not compressed springs before. You absolutely have to have a decent spring compressor, cheaper types will fly off the compressed spring with any kind of disturbance. You could be injured very easily. When you see the complexity of shop presses, you'll realise that some diy ones are lethal. I had a Ford mondeo spring fully compressed to go back on a strut, and it flew with no warning. I was so cautious that I was positioning everything so I would be well out of any flight path. The compressor hook on one side just seemed to creep down the spring slope, and the coil bulged,then bang. Scary.

I've got a decent spring compressor, and have done a good few in the past, just wasn't sure if you needed to do this with the Audi ??

One thing I haven't got is a ball joint separator, just in case you need one of these for the lower arms ??

 

[ninjag]

Mind to torque everything up afterwards under load. Easy to forget when focusing on other stuff.

 

[deezell]

I've got a decent spring compressor, and have done a good few in the past, just wasn't sure if you needed to do this with the Audi ??

One thing I haven't got is a ball joint separator, just in case you need one of these for the lower arms ??

Apologies, you might not need to compress on removal if the broken spring part was sufficiently large to collapse the spring, it's usually just the seated loop that breaks though, so the bulk of the spring will still be under tension.
I bought this set of pullers, great value, the biggest one in the set required for a 2015 A6 quattro front lower control arm replacements, it took considerable pressure on the splitter to pop it.
Amazon product

 

[Tiger-G]

Well, I tried to remove the pinch bolt today and guess what.....it was seized solid .

I looked at the job of replacement as a whole and decided I just can't be ***** with the hassle of doing it. I've got it booked into a relatively local reputable garage who said they've done loads, and would charge around 4 hours labour. I can live with that. It's in late next week.

Thanks for all the advice, it's much appreciated

I must be getting old if I can't be ***** doing stuff like this any more

 

[spartacus 68]

Half the battle is having the right tools. At this time of year at least the weather is decent if you're doing it in a driveway. Hopefully the garage use anti-seize when they fit the new bolt. A useful tip is to coat the spring and upper arm ball-joints in Lanogard once it's repaired. Water spray and salt starts the corrosion process so when you get to the job 3-4 years later with a broken spring to find the bolt is welded solid.

 

[Tiger-G]

Half the battle is having the right tools. At this time of year at least the weather is decent if you're doing it in a driveway. Hopefully the garage use anti-seize when they fit the new bolt. A useful tip is to coat the spring and upper arm ball-joints in Lanogard once it's repaired. Water spray and salt starts the corrosion process so when you get to the job 3-4 years later with a broken spring to find the bolt is welded solid.

When I worked in the fire service I had access to a good few hydraulic and pneumatic tools tools that would have made short work of that bolt !! ;-)

I thinking I must be at that age (56) where I just can't be ***** doing jobs like this any more, so I'll leave it to the garage to worry about.

 

[Tiger-G]

Update:

Well......£650 later, I’ve had two new springs and Bilstein shocks fitted. The garage removed the upper control arms at the bushes and left the pinch bolts in place, as advised on here.

The car feels a bit strange when purposely throwing it from side to side, but hey-ho, it’ll have to do. I’m on a 1,000 mile test ride round the north west coast of Scotland at the mo. All seems ok.....apart from my bank balance :-(

Thanks for all the advice

 

[RS5 JON]

Update:

Well......£650 later, I’ve had two new springs and Bilstein shocks fitted. The garage removed the upper control arms at the bushes and left the pinch bolts in place, as advised on here.

The car feels a bit strange when purposely throwing it from side to side, but hey-ho, it’ll have to do. I’m on a 1,000 mile test ride round the north west coast of Scotland at the mo. All seems ok.....apart from my bank balance :-(

Thanks for all the advice

Might be worth getting a 4 wheel alignment done after this suspension work.

JG