Tyre Debacle

[thomaslewis]

Thought I would share an experience I had yesterday and to get some experience anyone might have.

Today I visited the Costco warehouse to have 2 new tyres fitted to my vehicle (Audi A3 8Y Ed 1 35 TFSI S Tronic)

I ordered these tyres online and then chose a delivery date. I was then contacted by the warehouse on Monday to organise an appointment time and I arrived today at 11:30am for my 12:00pm appointment.

I ordered 2 x Michelin 235/35 R19 91Y tyres for my using the Registration search on the website.

I double checked this against my current tyres which are Goodyear, but opted for the Michelin as I had great reviews from other Audi owners after changing.

After around 15 minutes from dropping off my car and checking in, I had a call from the technician who told me to come back to the tyre bay as he needed to show me something.

He showed me that my original tyres had the Audi Original mark denoted on the tyre shown as “AO” and this showed that this was the tyre that was only to be fitted to my car.

I knew that this showed what was the tyre that was fitted at the factory, but that this was usually placed on tyres that had been specifically tested on the car, not that the tyre was specially made for that car.

The technician then proceeded to tell me that if I did not fit these tyres to my car again it would void my manufacturers warranty and this was pretty much non-negotiable and that if I proceeded to go with the Michelin tyres I would need to sign a legal disclaimer to say I ignored their advice.

Having owned Audis before this and having had the non-AO tyres fitted by Audi at their service centre in the past and the same for VW I was quite surprised to hear this.

The technician was also very pressured towards me that this was definitely not allowed and wanted to cancel my order and for me to come back in 9 days when he could get my exact tyres in stock, these were also more expensive than the tyres I chose (utilising the £50 off Michelin voucher). Although he told me to think about it, I said I would call my Audi dealer and he told me that regardless of that, it would void my manufacturer warranty.

Having already been at the warehouse at this point for 35 minutes, I was eating into my fitting time at 12:00pm.

I then spent around 45 minutes on the phone to my dealer, my dealer service department and legal team who said that bar any speciality vehicle such as an Audi R8 or RS model this kind of manufacturer specified tyre brand and model does not affect manufacturer warranty and that they had never heard this in 10+ years of working there, which I concurred having never heard this in my 7 years of driving and changing tyres.

I proceeded to look at Audi forums online that also said this was not true.

So eventually, having gotten confirmation from Audi Legal that this wouldn’t not affect my warranty I proceeded with my tyre change to Michelin.

The technician then told me, as you have taken so long you have missed your slot and will have to wait.

Is this required to be asked every time, or has this technician taken it upon himself to impose this policy?

P.s. I got Audi Legal to email me on this basis so that I had proof that it does not affect the warranty provided that the tyre specification matched exactly what was fitted I.e. 235 35 R19
91Y.

 

[AdamInKent]

In over thirty years of driving I have never had anyone try to tell me this. To the best of my knowledge, the only requirement imposed by warranties (and insurance) is to fit the right size and speed rating.

 

[DFish]

Sounds like they just wanted to up sell a more expensive tyre.

 

[400ixl]

Yep, upsell policy from the company and a tech covering his **** by making you sign a waiver to show he tried to upsell.

About the only time that you could be required to fit OA tyres is if you finance a car in some way and they insist on it. Rare but has been known (in that it at least has to be rturned to them with OA tyres).

 

[KXL]

Which Michelin (PS4/5) or Primacy did you swap it to? Assuming the GY's were the Eagle Asy 5s?
I recently went to ATS to 'avoid' needing to change 2 tyres by rotating them to ensure they had more than 2 mm all round when lease expired and I return the car. After 7k miles the fronts had 5 1/4 mm, and rears 6mm (now of course the opposite) so I 'should' be able to do (based on new tyres generally come with 8mm?) 16k miles before 3mm.
Hope your fronts lasted at least 12k before change was required?
Also yes I've never heard needed specific tyres else warranty void, maybe if it was a RS3, could be with their Bridgestone Potenza Sports with different tyre sizes.

 

[thomaslewis]

Which Michelin (PS4/5) or Primacy did you swap it to? Assuming the GY's were the Eagle Asy 5s?
I recently went to ATS to 'avoid' needing to change 2 tyres by rotating them to ensure they had more than 2 mm all round when lease expired and I return the car. After 7k miles the fronts had 5 1/4 mm, and rears 6mm (now of course the opposite) so I 'should' be able to do (based on new tyres generally come with 8mm?) 16k miles before 3mm.
Hope your fronts lasted at least 12k before change was required?
Also yes I've never heard needed specific tyres else warranty void, maybe if it was a RS3, could be with their Bridgestone Potenza Sports with different tyre sizes.

Swapped to Pilot Sport 4S.

Goodyears were Eagle F1 Supersport FP
XL AO.

At first service was told my front and rear measures were 4mm and 5mm, respectively. Just coming up to year 2 service, 14000 miles and I reckon I probably had a few hundred miles left, but needed to utilise the £50 off voucher. However, the back still is still not nearing change yet.

I did gather that he was just talking ****, glad to confirm it though, shall be awkward next time I am there, as they were by far the cheapest so would likely go again.

 

[yellow edition]

The last time i looked for tyres for an audi i was given a large choice and sevreral of them had the AO marking. Definite upsell from the business.
Personnally i would look else where after that. Audi dealers usually do a price match.

 

[Vic20]

I learnt the following from a friend who spent a career lifetime in car development and testing with Ford in Essex..

AO tyres are Audi 'factory fit'. They get, along with most other vehicle manufacturers from the tyre producer, the roundest / best balanced carcasses of a production run. This minimises wheel balancing labour time and quantities of weights needed in the factory.

The car producer also gets these 'pick of the bunch' tyres for about ten dollars a carcass! Not just bulk purchase and market competition, but the tyre company knows that most drivers will simply put the same make of tyre on the car in future purchases so this is investment in forward sales.

A quantity of these tyres also go on general retail sale but, apart from the 'Insert manufacturers code here' additional marking, are identical in safety and performance characteristics to those without. You just might end up with a few less balancing weights!



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[ptf]

"if I proceeded to go with the Michelin tyres I would need to sign a legal disclaimer to say I ignored their advice."

What, exactly, was this technician going to do if you got in your car and drove off at that point?

Needed TTFO, firmly.

 

[AlS3BE]

I learnt the following from a friend who spent a career lifetime in car development and testing with Ford in Essex..

AO tyres are Audi 'factory fit'. They get, along with most other vehicle manufacturers from the tyre producer, the roundest / best balanced carcasses of a production run. This minimises wheel balancing labour time and quantities of weights needed in the factory.

The car producer also gets these 'pick of the bunch' tyres for about ten dollars a carcass! Not just bulk purchase and market competition, but the tyre company knows that most drivers will simply put the same make of tyre on the car in future purchases so this is investment in forward sales.

A quantity of these tyres also go on general retail sale but, apart from the 'Insert manufacturers code here' additional marking, are identical in safety and performance characteristics to those without. You just might end up with a few less balancing weights!



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I would disagree with that, it’s not just a marking.
Tyres with Ao or any other manufacturer marking are specifically design with certain characteristics that are different to ones without. Safety and performance will be similar but generally there are some key differences. For different cars things like tendency to oversteer or under steer will be part of those characteristics amongst many other.
The Pirelli pzero for my 8v is a good example of this. The AO version has a much wider rim protector to the non Ao marked one. Had one fitted at the tyre fitter as they got the wrong one in and it looked like a complete different tyre to the rest of the car which were AO. This at least from a manufacturing perspective is a completely different mould/tooling and possibly a different compound for the rubber used.
On some bmw that has a stretched tyre look will have a matched tyre to the wheel otherwise it will look pants, not drive as well or not be safe.
to be fair for your average joe out there a tyre is a tyre so won’t notice much difference between one with and without the Ao marking or any manufacturer markings unless they drive at the extremes.

 

[ptf]

All of which makes it difficult to impossible to source the right "AO" tyre - not every puncture/blow out happens conveniently near an AUDI dealer you know.

A car should be safe with any tyre which is the right size, speed and weight spec - end of.

 

[AlS3BE]

All of which makes it difficult to impossible to source the right "AO" tyre - not every puncture/blow out happens conveniently near an AUDI dealer you know.

A car should be safe with any tyre which is the right size, speed and weight spec - end of.

Not saying it’s not safe. Just saying there are differences between one with Ao and one without.
I’ve never had issues getting Ao tyres from black circle or like of kwik fit etc not just Audi dealers.
Even Audi dealers in my experience don’t hold tyres in stock and takes a day or two to order them in.

Edit: to answer op question in my experience I had to sign a disclaimer previously when I changed from run flats to non run flats on a bmw and mini. Also had to tell insurance company as it could be classed as a mod. Similarly if you change from ao to non ao I would check with insurance. Most insurance wouldn’t care but some do.

 

[ptf]

Not saying it’s not safe. Just saying there are differences between one with Ao and one without.
I’ve never had issues getting Ao tyres from black circle or like of kwik fit etc not just Audi dealers.
Even Audi dealers in my experience don’t hold tyres in stock and takes a day or two to order them in.

Your very words were: "not drive as well or not be safe"

Even assuming you meant "not be as safe" - which would be a reasonable stance to take (given that grip and braking distance etc are definitely things which distinguish tyre brands) having to know that some specific sub-type of a tyre is "the right one" is a bit anti-consumer in my view.

 

[AlS3BE]

Your very words were: "not drive as well or not be safe"

Even assuming you meant "not be as safe" - which would be a reasonable stance to take (given that grip and braking distance etc are definitely things which distinguish tyre brands) having to know that some specific sub-type of a tyre is "the right one" is a bit anti-consumer in my view.

I said the characteristics are different. Never said it’s not safe or not as safe, not sure where you got that from. Characteristics like comfort, handling etc are different to non ao tyres and with the sporty models the difference could be huge.
In theory the car could drive not as well or not be safe as the driver is used to certain behaviours of the original tyre and with other tyres these could be better or worse. Ultimately it’s the driver than needs to adjust. Could even say that about replacing with a like for like tyre with the ao markings, new tyres behave differently to a used/almost expired set.
Not trying to be anti consumer, just stating that there are differences between ao and non ao tyres and it’s not just letters stamped on the sidewall. I use non ao tyres as winter tyres and never had problems, just made sure insurance companies know I have changed them even for winters so I’m properly covered. Making sure folk have as much information to make an informed choice and as others have mentioned better check with lease/finance company and insurances to make sure it’s all good.

 

[AdamInKent]

I agree with AIS3BO that AO tyres are customised tyres, however, they are not necessarily better than the standard (non AO) tyres. As an example, the AO Bridgestone Turanza that were factory fit on my car seemed to struggle for grip compared to pretty much every other tyre that I’ve driven or the Goodyear Efficient Grips that I have replaced them with (and I’m now of an age where I’m not pushing the car anywhere near its limits). I suspect that they may have been tweaked to prioritise low rolling resistance over grip (though this is pure speculation on my part). Certainly, the replacement tyres are better than the factory fits (less of a tendency to wheel spin from standstill and less squirelly through standing water).

 

[KXL]

The Pirelli pzero for my 8v is a good example of this. The AO version has a much wider rim protector to the non Ao marked one. Had one fitted at the tyre fitter as they got the wrong one in and it looked like a complete different tyre to the rest of the car which were AO. This at least from a manufacturing perspective is a completely different mould/tooling and possibly a different compound for the rubber used.

I had this very 'quirk' with the Primacy 4 that came from factory on a previous car compared to the ones you can buy to replace. The factory ones did not have the (left circle emblem). I contacted Michelin with pictures (sad I know) to ask why my tyres didn't have them, and they stopped short on stating 'it might not be a legitimate' tyre. They softened their stance once I mentioned it came with the car fresh from the factory in Belgium, and they said, oh, they are OEM tyres, so they are legit.

 

[Trojan]

My wife has AO marked tyres on her 2021 Kia E Niro and these came from the factory.
They are Michelin Pilot Sport 4 that came as stock on the car!

Also just to mention the Bridgestone tyres that have come on my 2023 A3 TDI are prob the worse tyres I have ever experienced. The car tramlines around corners. Cannot wait to get them off! However will be a few years as the car is only going circa 5k miles per year!

 

[SamB2020]

My wife has AO marked tyres on her 2021 Kia E Niro and these came from the factory.
They are Michelin Pilot Sport 4 that came as stock on the car!

Also just to mention the Bridgestone tyres that have come on my 2023 A3 TDI are prob the worse tyres I have ever experienced. The car tramlines around corners. Cannot wait to get them off! However will be a few years as the car is only going circa 5k miles per year!

Can I ask what made you decide to buy a TDi when you do such few miles, I had a 8y 30Tdi that I did 36k miles in just over 2 years but when I replaced it this year I couldn’t justify the extra £2.3k extra price.

 

[Trojan]

£6k discount mate from list price for a brand new car that the dealer had in stock and was the previous model year.

 

[SamB2020]

£6k discount mate from list price for a brand new car that the dealer had in stock and was the previous model year.

Don’t blame you there, I’d of done the same.

 

[monkeyhanger]

My wife has AO marked tyres on her 2021 Kia E Niro and these came from the factory.
They are Michelin Pilot Sport 4 that came as stock on the car!

Also just to mention the Bridgestone tyres that have come on my 2023 A3 TDI are prob the worse tyres I have ever experienced. The car tramlines around corners. Cannot wait to get them off! However will be a few years as the car is only going circa 5k miles per year!

I've had Bridgestones fitted at factory on 6 out of 8 of our most recent new cars (all VAG). It boggles the mind why VW/Audi/Cupra/Skoda fit these, especially on the performance models, they are dire for all tyre attributes. The compound is rock hard, which is probably great from a track tyre perspective, but not a road tyre. For FWD cars, the poor traction causes lots of tramping, the hard compound is both uncomfortable and noisy, turn in grip is crap/twitchy and fuel economy is poor too. They were downright dangerous in our old Polo GTI+, in the Summer, I got rid straight away for some PS4s.