One for the plumbers on here - boiler replacement

[Nickynibbles]

My 1980's 2.5 bedroom semi still has its original little boiler in it which works perfectly well & British "we'll rip you a new a-hole" Gas are happy to service still but have been saying for a while now that the parts are becoming short in supply.

I'd been plotting a replacement this summer but have no intention of using them to replace the boiler as know they'll cost more than a good local indie plumber. My intention is to replace the current standard boiler & hot water tank set up with modern efficient combi boiler and do away with the hot water tank all together as it has no immersion heater & wouldnt serve any purpose any longer. The replacement is a preventative measure as who knows if & when a 25+ yr old boiler will pack in & knowing my luck it'll be on xmas day!!

So the questions are:-

1. Is this a sensible set up or should I keep the hot water tank?
2. What boiler can people recommend to get?
3. Could it be a good idea to buy the boiler myself & get it fitted or leave the boiler buying to the plumber, just tell him/her what I want?

Thanks peeps!

 

[WHITEY_1]

Nicky I am a carpenter by trade not a plumber from the story's off plumbers ive heard get a plumber in to do the job mate! Get shot of the old system and the tank and get a plumber to slam a combi boiler in there. Its too dangerous to DIY it, spend it a bit extra and get someone in to do it, any problems you can always fall back on them! Make sure the plumber is corgi registered and he has got proof or get him checked out yourself before you have him or her!!

 

[WHITEY_1]

And make sure you get a {{carbon monoxide detector}}

 

[Nickynibbles]

Its too dangerous to DIY it

Perhaps didnt explain the 3rd question quite as well as I should! I dont mean I was going to DIY fit the boiler, what I meant was I would buy the boiler myself & merely recruit a plumber to do the fitting. My theory being would a plumber charge more for the boiler than I could buy it for simply to make a few quid more on the job?

 

[fingermouse]

yes buy your own boiler and don`t listen to the plumber for which to buy most of them just recommend the ones they get freebies with. i.e buy 5 of these free ipod nano buy or 10 for a free sat nav.

buy a www.worcester-bosch.co.uk or vallient boiler they seem to be the best.

But to be honest I think BG are talking bolloks my boiler is 15 years old and I can still get the parts. Servicing a boiler is a bit like watering the grass. Quick blow out of the burner area and thats about all there is to it.

what make have you got now ???? Combi is good but baths can be slow to run, showers are tip ttop though.

 

[mister.c.]

I'd second what fingermouse says - having two colleagues whose got a new boiler last year & myself who almost got a new one last year (but went down the underfloor heating route for the extension), then we all did some initial research independently and a worcester bosh or vallient seemed to be the best.

As you say avoid British Gas, or perhaps use them to your advantage and when getting a quote (which you do not intend to use) you can gleam information and at least a figure to compare with.

I would firstly find a plumber (preferably >1) you are happy with (through recommendations) and get that quote from them. Tell them which boiler you'd prefer. Get that quote broken down so you can see what their costs are for the boiler etc, and then you can make your decision then. I wouldnt 100% make your mind up as to definitely buy separately or go with the plumber, until you've got got that information to help influence your decision making.

You may find some useful information on more specific forums, such as
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.html?f=39

 

[AndyMac]

I'd stick with the tank mate. Combi boilers are sooo overrated. They are far more complex than a traditional boiler, so far more to go wrong. They are more expensive and only have a life expectancy of about 10 years. People bang on about how efficient they are which is nonsense. They are efficient when running a bath, but that's about it. If you look at how you use hot water, for most people it's primarily a shower and then washing up and hand washing. As soon as you turn the hot tap on, a combi boiler will feed you stone cold water for about 20-30 seconds while it fires up. If you are just washing your hands then you don't even get any hot water (unless the boiler is very close to the tap), meanwhile the combi has fired up used gas then shut down again. Next time you turn the tap on you'll get warm water followed by more cold and the cycle continues. A traditional boiler is far more reliable (as your own 25 year old original has proved), and you can use a power shower no problem, and with well lagged pipes you can use a lot of hot water without the boiler even firing up.
Combi's are great for shared student type accomodation, or small flats, but for a family household they just waste energy, and also waste water as you have to run the tap for 30seconds+ to get any hot. A traditional boiler with a well lagged tank & pipework is by far the most efficient for the average household.
The reason there is so much hype about combi's is that the manufacturers will sell more boilers. Combi's have built in obsolescence, whereas a traditional boiler will last for 20-30 years, as they're such a simple design.

 

[Nickynibbles]

Current boiler is a Glow Worm Fuel Saver Mk2.

Know what your saying AndyMac, but im also attracted by having hot water at a greater pressure that the combi boiler can provide. Currently suffer from very low hot water pressure upstairs which isnt resolved by using a shower pump. Having looked at the Worcester-Bosch CDi range it seems to offer an instant hot water feature by maintaining a small quantity of water inside the boiler heated up, most likely by the pilot light. We mostly shower rather than have baths, but when the mrs does have a bath it completely empties the hot water tank so if you want a shower any time soon after she's had a bath you've got no hope of a hot one!!

Next question, what power output would I need for a semi that has 2 large downstairs rads & 5 upstairs rads, oh and 1 bathroom! No idea what the current power output of the Glow Worm boiler i've got, or what power is ideal for a combi replacement!

 

[NHN]

found this if any good for working out boiler size.

http://www.glow-wormheating.co.uk/boiler_calc.php

 

[AndyMac]

So you'll get a bit of hot water followed by cold then gradually warm to hot - brilliant!
You won't get better pressure from a combi as even though it works off the cold water mains supply it has to reduce the flow in order to have time to heat it up. This reduced flow then has to fight against gravity to get upstairs, so not brilliant, and when you run hot & cold together (or someone flushed the loo) it splits the pressure again. Poor hot water presure is usually due to using a combi as it doesn't have the benefit of a header tank in the loft giving it some uummph!

 

[fingermouse]

well my combi give some ooomph for showers roughly 2-3 time more powerful than those crappy electric shower things if not 4 times. If you put it on the jet it can get painful.

My combi has a water tank in the boiler that it keeps warm and increases water flow from something like 14 ltrs a min to 21 ltrs a min .


I do suffer if someone runs a tap or flushes a toilet elsewhere in the house but i only get cold then hot water not cold hot cold.

baths can be slo to run but then im 6ft 3 and can lay out in ours lol

 

[fingermouse]

wheres TDI when you need him hes a plumbing expert isn`t he ???

 

[AndyMac]

"well my combi give some ooomph for showers roughly 2-3 time more powerful than those crappy electric shower things if not 4 times"
So not very powerful then!

 

[Macduff]

Agree with AndyMac. We had a combi in our last house and it was a complete PITA. Not sure of model but it was a Baxi. Gave OK showers unless another tap was run at the same time, took forever to fill a bath. Bear in mind that they will heat the water by X degrees so if it's winter you'll get 40C water and in the summer you get 55C compared with 55-60 in your tank all year round. Our boiler also had continual leaks from the air separator and/or pressure relief valves. Too much to go wrong in them in my opinion.

Personally if I was in your position, I'd replace your current boiler with a good quality condensing boiler and keep the hot water tank. Simplest job as it's just a boiler replacement. Should see a healthy reduction in your gas bill.

Might be worth looking into replacing your cold water tank (if you have one) with a balanced system so you then get hot and cold at mains pressure. We have that and it's better than my Mum's pumped showers.

HTH
Dave

 

[jcs356]

Why on earth would you replace something that is still functioning perfectly well at the moment??? You could get another 10 years out of it!!

Would you replace the gearbox on your car 'just in case'???? Keep going until it breaks then worry about it. I know you've already said BG are on commission to sell you something you don't need. So why replace it if it is working???

I've also heard nothing but grief about combi boilers.

Stick with what you have!

 

[SteveTDCi]

ignore the bit about parts, we received the same letter from british gas, our house is around 10 years old. The boiler at work is early 90's still going strong and you can still get parts for it.

 

[Nickynibbles]

Im wanting to replace it as I have saved the money specifically to do it now! Yes the boiler could go on for a long time more, but they will break when they're being used the most which will be the winter & to get it fixed/replaced then will take longer without a doubt!

As for the pressure thing, my mrs rented a house until a year ago that had a Worcester combi & have to say the pressure of the shower was as good as I get from from my power shower. The problem with my existing set up is that the hot water pressure upstairs is soooooooo low the pump wont even start unless you turn the hot tap on in the bathroom sink increasing the overall demand. A good combi will have a pump giving a stable outflow of hot water. Your going to be affected if someone flushes the loo elsewhere in the hosue no mater what system you've got!

In fairness the plumbers i'll be speaking to & getting quotes from might have a better solution using a standard boiler, but having experienced a combi before and been happy with it I planned on this being the option to go for.

 

[Macduff]

Your going to be affected if someone flushes the loo elsewhere in the hosue no mater what system you've got!

Not true. Our system is pressurised to 3 bar and someone flushing makes no difference to a shower. We also have the same pressure for hot and cold water.

This will be by far the cheapest option as remember with a combi you have to run cold supply to and hot water pipes from the boiler. I expect your current system just has a feed and return for the heating/hot water circuit.

 

[AndyMac]

Absolutely, a proper power shower has a seperate cold water tank in the loft as the mains supply isn't enough to feed it.

 

[Nickynibbles]

Not true. Our system is pressurised to 3 bar and someone flushing makes no difference to a shower. We also have the same pressure for hot and cold water.

This will be by far the cheapest option as remember with a combi you have to run cold supply to and hot water pipes from the boiler. I expect your current system just has a feed and return for the heating/hot water circuit.

Ahh i see, i'd not quite grasped the concept before of what a closed system would do, so it basically would just up the overall pressure to the hot water supply in the house. This is my main problem in fairness as the cold water mains on full chat would probably rival a fire mans hose for pressure so there is a massive imbalance in hot & cold pressure! But would the cost of adapting the existing system be inexcess of simply fitting the combi boiler and a few feet of copper pipe for the hot water feed?

 

[fingermouse]

"well my combi give some ooomph for showers roughly 2-3 time more powerful than those crappy electric shower things if not 4 times"
So not very powerful then!

well compared to my Mum and Dads tank system that has the shower downstairs and the tank up above the 2nd floor then yes its v good if you put it on jet its actually too painful to stand under so isn`t that enough oomph ????

 

[fingermouse]

on another note old boilers were built to last and modern ones are lucky to do 5-10 years. A lot of plumbers say if the old one ain`t broke don`t replace it. two of my mates have had problems with Baxi and glowworm mainly gas valves or the solonoid and one circuit board.

 

[Macduff]

Ahh i see, i'd not quite grasped the concept before of what a closed system would do, so it basically would just up the overall pressure to the hot water supply in the house. This is my main problem in fairness as the cold water mains on full chat would probably rival a fire mans hose for pressure so there is a massive imbalance in hot & cold pressure! But would the cost of adapting the existing system be inexcess of simply fitting the combi boiler and a few feet of copper pipe for the hot water feed?

Possibly as you will almost certainly need a new hot water tank to take the higher pressures. You could of course do it in two stages. Boiler first then balanced h/w system later.

 

[AndyMac]

well compared to my Mum and Dads tank system that has the shower downstairs and the tank up above the 2nd floor then yes its v good if you put it on jet its actually too painful to stand under so isn`t that enough oomph ????

Sounds great, just what I want, a shower that's too painful to use.
But it's not about pain, you can get anything to shoot out a single miniscule high pressure jet, it's mainly about volume, otherwise you have to dance around underneath the showerhead trying to get wet.

 

[AndyMac]

I think my biggest issue with combi's is trying to wet shave. You essentially have to keep the hot tap running for the whole duration, otherwise you end up with cold/hot/cold/hot syndrome, yes very efficient & good for the environment (NOT).

 

[S3K]

http://www.vaillant.co.uk/installers/High_efficiency_boilers/Combination/ecotec-plus-937/

There is nothing wrong with the newer high efficiancy combi boilers but you get what you pay for. The best makes at the moment are Vaillent (no1 choice) and Worcester Bosch. Most of the new ones have a "pre-heat" function which as long as there arent long pipe runs give you constant hot water when the tap is opened, there shouldnt be any hot or cold spurts as you used to get previously with the older types with this function if the boiler is working correctly. It will also save you alot of money on your gas bill and is better for the environment. The boiler you have now is probably 65% possibly less efficient while a modern one is 90%+ so the money you spend on gas goes into your heating rather than out the flue. It will pay for itself in the end. If you want super strength hot water get a high efficiency boiler and unvented hot water tank (which can run at mains pressure) but in doing that you may need to increase your mains cold water pipe from the road to your property to accomodate it and to be honest unless its a4-5 bedroom house its probably not worth it.

BG send those letters out to most properties with boilers over 10 years old and the fact they have told you the parts are becoming less available means they are just keeping you informed that if it breaks, depending on what the problem is they may not be able to fix it. Kinda hindsight. The last thing you want is it breaking down in mid winter and them saying you need a new boiler so they are letting you know in advance. They are more expensive but unless you know someone you can trust to do the work correctly then the least you should do is get some advise from them. Remember its gotta last the distance.

Hope this is of some help

 

[AndyMac]

"as long as there arent long pipe runs" - so ensure you get 2 boilers fitted, one in the bathroom and one in the kitchen!

 

[S3K]

"as long as there arent long pipe runs" - so ensure you get 2 boilers fitted, one in the bathroom and one in the kitchen!

Its the same for combi or system boilers...long pipe runs are long pipe runs...it would still affect the amount of time you were to get hot water to the taps or shower....

 

[AndyMac]

You are so wrong. A normal boiler only pumps hot water down the hot water pipe, so if it's well lagged then it stays warm for about an hour. Combi boilers, by their very nature, only have a cold water feed, so to get the boiler to fire up a certain amount of stone cold water has to be pumped down the hot water pipe. This can take 10-15 seconds before it starts to heat up, regardless of lagging.
So if you are constantly turning the hot tap on & off (eg when shaving or washing up), you will get stone cold water, then hot then cold etc etc. With a normal boiler you get warm then nothing but hot.
As for environmentally friendly, wasting gallons of water in order to keep the hot flow going is not what I would call environmentally sound, neither is a boiler that is constantly firing up & shutting down with every turn of the hot tap. Storing a tank of hot water that can be used all day without the boiler every coming on is by far the more efficient route in most scenarios. As I've already said, combi's are really only suitable for small flats & shared accomodation, they are totally inappropriate for medium+ sized family homes.
As for efficiency, the same applies to any modern boiler (combi or otherwise) over & above a 20 year old one. What you need to consider is how inefficient does a boiler have to be for it to be worth forking out £2-3k (or even more) to get new one.
It's like the old double glazing myth on heat savings. It will take over 10 years to break even and in that time the UPVC garbage they installed will have fallen apart, so where's the ROI there?

 

[Caesium]

Sorry but this is wrong, modern condensing combi boilers are much much more efficient than a conventional boiler.
The flue gas from a condensing boiler is about 40'c, the flue gas from a conventional boiler is more like 100-150'c, there is some of your energy wasted straight away.
When you switch on your hot tap, the hot water has just as far to travel on either system, the difference is you don't have quater of a ton of hot water sitting there waiting to be used.
My Valiant boiler switches on instantly as soon as i turn on the tap and the water gets to me hot quicker as its powered by the mains, not a storage tank in the loft with a dead pigeon floating in it, giving you about 4psi.

Modern combi's can be set to contain some hot water for more instant response, mine is deactivated as the water comes through quick enough for me.

Also combi boilers (mine anyway) is fully modulating, this means that if you only turn on the tap a little, then the burner only comes on a small amount, and the flow and burner ferocity is proportional.

Conventional hot water systems sometimes last longer but also suffer from terrible scale because they are heated constantly, and modern conventional boilers now have the same amount of circuitry as a combi and just as likely to break down.

You can also take the cold water storage out of your loft, freeing up some storage space.

 

[Caesium]

Not true. Our system is pressurised to 3 bar and someone flushing makes no difference to a shower. We also have the same pressure for hot and cold water.

This will be by far the cheapest option as remember with a combi you have to run cold supply to and hot water pipes from the boiler. I expect your current system just has a feed and return for the heating/hot water circuit.

There will be a cold supply to feed the cold water storage tank, it just a case of re-routing.
As for 3 bar pressurised system, thats not strictly true. You may have a booster pump capable of delivering 3 bar but it doesn't put that pressure into the pipework as it shuts off when there is no flow.

Absolutely, a proper power shower has a seperate cold water tank in the loft as the mains supply isn't enough to feed it.

I had a "proper" power shower and although it was excellent, it had its limitations, the hot and cold were both pumped by a salamander esp cpv twin 3 bar pump, which was great, Only downside is that both supplies came from the same cold water storage so you have 2x 22mm pumped outlets running at full bore and 1x 15mm mains filling the tank back up.
Eventually the tank runs dry and the pump will stop, then you have no shower at all.

If there are several members of the household you all need to take staggered shower times to allow your ancient heating system to fill the tank back up which in turn allows some head on the cylinder to allow the hot to flow, that is if there is any because the old ****** boiler is struggling to heat the cylinder back up again, better go and put the kettle on while you wait.

My combi on the other hand will let me have a 4 hour shower if i feel like it and it will be powerful as well.

Get a condensing combi boiler, and smile.

 

[AndyMac]

Can't even begin to point out the gaping holes in your argument there Chris, but here goes:
"There will be a cold supply to feed the cold water storage tank, it just a case of re-routing."
Ummm yes I think there are slightly better ways to get a cold water feed to your new boiler than rerouting the one in the loft all the way back down to the kitchen!

"2x 22mm pumped outlets running at full bore and 1x 15mm mains filling the tank back up."
As opposed to one feeble 15mm feed providing both hot & cold water - yes I can see how that would be better.

My Valiant boiler switches on instantly"
Not actually possible, cold water has to flow to trigger the flow switch that ignites the burner (obviously)

Condensing boilers are available as combi's or non-combi's so not really an argument for or against, purely an argument on whether to replace the old boiler in which case you again have to ask yourself where's the break even point on spending the £2-£3k replacing the old girl. That's a lot of gas before you'll see any savings at all (if ever).

"both supplies came from the same cold water storage"
Should really have got it installed properly then. A power shower has 2 storage tanks. One cold, just for the shower and the normal one for the hot water tank. Typically thats 100 gallons of water before you have to rely on the mains. Don't know too many families that would exhaust such a supply.
The actual limitation is not the storage tanks in the loft but the capacity of your hot water tank, unless you like freezing cold showers. Which is a limitation I agree, but probably the only limitation versus a whole bunch using a combi.

"modern conventional boilers now have the same amount of circuitry as a combi and just as likely to break down."
Just pure ********! The additional complexity of a combi aside, it's also the constant on/off cycles that will kill it way ahead of a traditional unit.

 

[Caesium]

Can't even begin to point out the gaping holes in your argument there Chris, but here goes:
"There will be a cold supply to feed the cold water storage tank, it just a case of re-routing."
Ummm yes I think there are slightly better ways to get a cold water feed to your new boiler than rerouting the one in the loft all the way back down to the kitchen!

I never saw anywhere the mention of it being in the kitchen?

"2x 22mm pumped outlets running at full bore and 1x 15mm mains filling the tank back up."
As opposed to one feeble 15mm feed providing both hot & cold water - yes I can see how that would be better.

My mains is not feeble, not sure about yours or everyone elses. It doesn't come out with enough pressure to strip the skin off your body, but its enough to wash with.

My Valiant boiler switches on instantly"
Not actually possible, cold water has to flow to trigger the flow switch that ignites the burner (obviously)

Yep, and as soon as te flow starts so does the boiler, then the water has just as far to travel as it would from a cylinder.

Condensing boilers are available as combi's or non-combi's so not really an argument for or against, purely an argument on whether to replace the old boiler in which case you again have to ask yourself where's the break even point on spending the £2-£3k replacing the old girl. That's a lot of gas before you'll see any savings at all (if ever).

My boiler was 900 quid, i fitted it myself and got a corgi friend to connect the gas.

"both supplies came from the same cold water storage"
Should really have got it installed properly then. A power shower has 2 storage tanks. One cold, just for the shower and the normal one for the hot water tank. Typically thats 100 gallons of water before you have to rely on the mains. Don't know too many families that would exhaust such a supply.
The actual limitation is not the storage tanks in the loft but the capacity of your hot water tank, unless you like freezing cold showers. Which is a limitation I agree, but probably the only limitation versus a whole bunch using a combi.

I think you'll find there is a bylaw regarding the amount of cold water stored in your loft, and 100 gallons is 454 litres. 454 litres is 454 kg or half a ton, near enough. I certainly would not be happy about loading my roof trusses up with half a ton of static load.


"modern conventional boilers now have the same amount of circuitry as a combi and just as likely to break down."
Just pure ********! The additional complexity of a combi aside, it's also the constant on/off cycles that will kill it way ahead of a traditional unit.

Well by that thinking you better scrap your computer and start using an abacus, it wont crash and will last far longer as its much simpler

I'm a traditionalist as much as the next man, and if I were building a house i would have a combi supplying the hot tap in my utility room and a mains pressure hot water storage tank like a megaflo.
But i'm not building a house and i don't have a bottomless pocket, so I fitted a combi and i'm very happy with it.

I'm sure as you know andy, this is nothing personal and just an animated debate, still love you...XXX

 

[AndyMac]

"I never saw anywhere the mention of it being in the kitchen?"
Oh sorry in the loft then, that makes far more sense

"My mains is not feeble, not sure about yours or everyone elses. It doesn't come out with enough pressure to strip the skin off your body, but its enough to wash with."
My point was 100 gallons in the loft is far superior in volume & pressure to the mains, i.e. the mains is feeble in comparison, don't care whose it is.

"Yep, and as soon as te flow starts so does the boiler, then the water has just as far to travel as it would from a cylinder"
You're missing the point, it's the introduction of cold water into the pipe that's the issue not how far it has to travel.

"I think you'll find there is a bylaw regarding the amount of cold water stored in your loft, and 100 gallons is 454 litres. 454 litres is 454 kg or half a ton, near enough. I certainly would not be happy about loading my roof trusses up with half a ton of static load."
Certainly not if you live in a Toytown house, with cardboard walls, I agree, but luckily I live in a Victorian detached with proper internal brick walls, the tanks are all sitting on the walls not the joists.

"I'm a traditionalist as much as the next man, and if I were building a house i would have a combi supplying the hot tap in my utility room and a mains pressure hot water storage tank like a megaflo"
Well I think you've hit the nail on the head there, neither system is perfect, and you're example above is the best solution. But for my money, the benefits of a tanked system far outweigh the many downsides to a combi system.
I love the animated debates on here (as you may have guessed) and just because I'm right doesn't mean I take it too personally! It's a character flaw I have to deal with on a daily basis. Love you too......x

 

[Nickynibbles]

How about a wood burner though???!!!!


Only kidding, my thoughts are still with a combi boiler at the moment having given some thoughts to costs of a closed system. Where my boiler is sited in the understair cupboard, the cold water feed to the loft tank runs along the upstairs landing more or less above the boiler so its not a problem to get a feed to the boiler. Having experienced a combi before the delay you talk of Andy was never an issue, and it gave good hot water pressure without the need for an additional pump. Yes the cost of replacing a boiler is a fair bit and the return on investment is long, but as i've got the money to do it now i'd rather do it if I can and so avoid a potential failure in the future. I'll still have my BG service contract so if it goes wrong it'll get fixed at no cost to me anyway so dont really care if they are potentially more likely to break down. Certainly the Worcester one i have experience of at my mrs old house never broke down in the 18mths she was there and that was about 8yrs old too!

As has been debated there are pro's & cons to any system, i'll see what the plumebrs I speak to for quotes say & if they reckon a sealed system is better for the house then i'll reconsider things.

Only thing now is that now I know the cold water tank can be removed i've got to thinking of doing a loft conversion now..............darn DIY, will it ever end!!!!!!

 

[Macduff]

There will be a cold supply to feed the cold water storage tank, it just a case of re-routing.

Still quite a bit of work depending on where the boiler is. Most are in the kitchen or utility these days which is likely to be quite far from.

As for 3 bar pressurised system, thats not strictly true. You may have a booster pump capable of delivering 3 bar but it doesn't put that pressure into the pipework as it shuts off when there is no flow.

I don't have a cold water tank and I don't have any booster pump. My hot and cold both run at mains pressure.

 

[Caesium]

I love the animated debates on here (as you may have guessed) and just because I'm right doesn't mean I take it too personally! It's a character flaw I have to deal with on a daily basis. Love you too......x

bleeeerh

 

[Caesium]

Still quite a bit of work depending on where the boiler is. Most are in the kitchen or utility these days which is likely to be quite far from.
If that were the case then a combi would be much better as the boiler would be about 3 linear feet from the tap!

I don't have a cold water tank and I don't have any booster pump. My hot and cold both run at mains pressure.

then you have a megaflo or similar and by the way you can't put a pump on mains water

 

[TDI-line]

wheres TDI when you need him hes a plumbing expert isn`t he ???

If your going to go for a combi, then the Worcestor range is IMO the best value for money and of excellent build with a good customer service backup.

The greenstar 28i junior offers a good flow rate and a constant non-variable temperature of about 55c.

The CDI range offer some larger KW versions, ranging from a very reasonable 32 KW, upto 42KW, so excellent hot water demand is easily achievable. But these would all need a 22mm gas supply all the way back to the gas meter (maybe even 28/35 mm for the larger ones).

Also the Worcestor greenstar range was voted Manufacturer of the year 2007 and comes with a 2 year guarantee as standard.

As for buying the boiler yourself, personally let the installer get this, you really don't want the hassle of damaged and faulty boilers, you won't have the connections.

Also all boilers have to registered to Corgi by a Corgi installer, who then notify the local Building Office, this goes into the Home Owners Pack. So worth checking your installer.

I do at present work as a CH installer for BG, but will be going out on my own in about 3 months so...

If you want to know anything else, then let me know.

 

[Nickynibbles]

Cheers TDi, I was wondering where you were hiding out!! The greenstar 28i junior was the one I was considering, just dont think I need the extra power from the larger capacity versions in a 2.5 bedroom house with 1 bathroom! Although I do have a 22mm pipe running from the meter which is only on the other side of the wall from where the boiler is mounted! Sound advice ref the faulty boiler etc issues, I think the answer will be to get an itemised quote from installers to show how much they're going to charge for the boiler, if its anymore than I can see it for myself then i'll use this as a bargaining chip perhaps!

Cheers again TDi, shame your not in the Hampshire area else i'd volunteer to be your 1st customer!!